e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I'll save this for tomorrow. Good questions, but a lot of tangled concepts. Until then. Take care.
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What is a work?
- Thread starter e.r.m.
- Start date
I'll save this for tomorrow. Good questions, but a lot of tangled concepts. Until then. Take care.
Shermana
Heretic
You might as well use 3 Corinthians.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Thanks for your input.
waitasec
Veteran Member
you too...
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Protestants believe they don't play any part except for believing.
Our responsibility -
(NASB) Hebrews 3:15 while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."
--and then all the scriptures that refer to us "being" saved (different from saving ourselves.)
Jesus and the Bible.
Jesus also said:
(NASB) John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
It's not just the word. A deep study will reveal which judging is expected and which judging is forbidden, which is one reason I also do not think there is a single definition for works.
Oh, and Jesus never said don't point out the faults in others, he asked "why do you point out the faults and not look at your own faults, first take out you own plank, then you will see clearly to remove the spec in the other's eye", which involves pointing out their fault. The scripture is sometimes referred to by people who just don't want to get corrected, even by people who have removed their planks.
Will address boasting in a separate post a little later. Sorry for the delay on this one. Good night.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
and?
isn't belief paramount for ones salvation?
there is where the circular logic comes to play.
you own the belief, you decide to believe, you thusly are responsible for your own salvation...
it takes 2 to tango.
now my question to you is,
where does this righteous judgment come from...?
within the capacity of man before or after they choose to believe?
take your time
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I Babylonians would be more appopriate.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Lol..
Shermana
Heretic
YOu may be right, since there's a possibility that 3 Corinthians may in fact be legit...may....
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Yes, I that there were 4 Corinthian letters consolidated into 1 & 2 Corinthians.
It is true that one can only be saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:8-9), and the reason is so that no one can boast before God. However, what constitutes Christian good works? The apostle James tells us in James 2:14-17, "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds (good works)? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead" (NIV).
Here James clearly pointed out that good works is doing what Jesus said to do, loving ones neighbour. So good works cannot save a person, but the fruit of true saving faith is works that show love to others, rather than hatred, selfishness and murder.
John the Baptist taught this also in Luke 3:7-14, "John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit (good works) in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire." 10 "What should we do then?" the crowd asked. 11 John answered, "The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same." 12 Tax collectors also came to be baptized. "Teacher," they asked, "what should we do?" 13 "Don't collect any more than you are required to," he told them. 14 Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay" (NIV).
So here we can see that good works can be done directly by way of helping others and indirectly by way of not sinning against others.
Finally, Jesus explained in Jn. 6:28-29, the ultimate good work that all people need to do, "Then they asked Him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent (Himself)" (NIV). So here we can see that the first good work that anyone can do is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. That He is God's eternal Son, sent into this world to die on the cross for sinners.
Therefore, good works is loving God and loving ones neighbours.
Here James clearly pointed out that good works is doing what Jesus said to do, loving ones neighbour. So good works cannot save a person, but the fruit of true saving faith is works that show love to others, rather than hatred, selfishness and murder.
John the Baptist taught this also in Luke 3:7-14, "John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit (good works) in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire." 10 "What should we do then?" the crowd asked. 11 John answered, "The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same." 12 Tax collectors also came to be baptized. "Teacher," they asked, "what should we do?" 13 "Don't collect any more than you are required to," he told them. 14 Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay" (NIV).
So here we can see that good works can be done directly by way of helping others and indirectly by way of not sinning against others.
Finally, Jesus explained in Jn. 6:28-29, the ultimate good work that all people need to do, "Then they asked Him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent (Himself)" (NIV). So here we can see that the first good work that anyone can do is believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. That He is God's eternal Son, sent into this world to die on the cross for sinners.
Therefore, good works is loving God and loving ones neighbours.
Shermana
Heretic
Jesus said to do a lot more than just love your neighbor. To say otherwise involves snipping out 99% of the other things he said. What exactly does it mean to "love your neighbor"? Tell them you hope they have a nice day? Quite plainly in Matthew 5:17-20 he also said you must obey the Mosaic Law, and be more righteous (Righteousness is defined as obedience to the Law) than the Scribes and the Pharisees who considered themselves devout but made up their own artificial rulings to get around the parts of the Law they didn't like such as caring for orphans and widows. And 1 John says anyone who says they know Christ without obeying the commandments is "a liar".
That means obeying everything he said.
Wanna lend me $100? You're supposed to give to anyone who asks. What's stopping you?
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e.r.m.
Church of Christ
A good article on why baptism is not "a work."
Baptism, Faith, and Works
Baptism, Faith, and Works
waitasec
Veteran Member
PFRS Home > Baptism >
Faith & Works
Fundamental Misconceptions Regarding Baptism
Copyright © Tim Warner 10-11-04
Physical vs. Spiritual Dichotomy — Dualism
One of the concepts of Greek mysticism that invaded Christianity, and continues to grip Christian thinking to some extent today, is the idea of a sharp dichotomy between the "spiritual" and the "physical." "Spirit" is seen as good, and "matter" is seen as inherently corrupt. This concept is typically called "dualism" in philosophical terminology. It was originally foreign to Judaism and early Christianity, but made inroads into both. In particular, it led to the various Gnostic psuedo-Christian cults that appeared in the second century. It is also a key reason why the modern Baptist view of baptism was developed by the Swiss Reformer, Zwingli, in opposition to all the Christian writers from the Apostles until the early 16th century.
in genesis everything material was good though...