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What is a work?

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Changing the subject again.
Click to expand...

no i'm not...
faith is something you own...

does one decide to believe or do they just believe, like having blue eyes...

you play a pivotal role in YOUR salvation...

unless what you are saying is that faith is not required to be saved...
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
sandy whitelinger said:
Not at all. The Bible is very clear that works will not save you.
Click to expand...

James is only in contradiction with protestantism/evangelicalism doctrine on works (a work is anything you 'do'). The Bible doesn't take the extreme position on works that protestants/evangelicals do-(Luke 6:5-10, for example). Romans 9:32 refers to the bad works as when people do not give God the credit. The Israelites sought righteousness based on faith in the works themselves and not based on faith in God, but it did not put down the works. In 2 Kings 5, Naaman washed in the Jordan and got cleansed. He would not have gotten cleansed if he hadn't washed in the Jordan and he recognized it was God running the show (vs. 15). I suspect the works, where the faith is in "the works", is what Paul is referring to in Ephesians 2:8-9. In which case, it fits perfectly with James.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Not at all. The Bible is very clear that works will not save you.
Click to expand...

sure it does...
your faith saves you...if you didn't have faith you won't be saved
but it seem you don't agree with it as being something you own for yourself based on what you decided
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
James is only in contradiction with protestantism/evangelicalism doctrine on works (a work is anything you 'do'). The Bible doesn't take the extreme position on works that protestants/evangelicals do-(Luke 6:5-10, for example). Romans 9:32 refers to the bad works as when people do not give God the credit. The Israelites sought righteousness based on faith in the works themselves and not based on faith in God, but it did not put down the works. In 2 Kings 5, Naaman washed in the Jordan and got cleansed. He would not have gotten cleansed if he hadn't washed in the Jordan and he recognized it was God running the show (vs. 15). I suspect the works, where the faith is in "the works", is what Paul is referring to in Ephesians 2:8-9. In which case, it fits perfectly with James.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

it's all very simple...
jesus and his followers thought the kingdom was at hand...
clearly they and those that wrote the gospel propaganda were wrong
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
waitasec said:
sure it does...
your faith saves you...if you didn't have faith you won't be saved
but it seem you don't agree with that being something you own for yourself based on what you decided
Click to expand...
"...and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." Still not a Biblical work though.
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
waitasec said:
:biglaugh:
a biblical view is a world view
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John 12:47-50
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. [49] "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. [50] "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

John 15:19
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

The Father & Jesus have a much better take on things than the world view.
 
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sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
John 12:47-50
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. [49] "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. [50] "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

John 15:19
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

The Father & Jesus have a very different take on things than the world view.
Click to expand...
Don't take those misdirections seriously. It only encourages her.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
John 12:47-50
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. [49] "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. [50] "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

John 15:19
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

The Father & Jesus have a much better take on things than the world view.
Click to expand...

this view seems to contradict the synoptic gospels....
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ

it's all very simple...
jesus and his followers thought the kingdom was at hand...
clearly they and those that wrote the gospel propaganda were wrong[/QUOTE]

They weren't wrong, the Kingdom came. Not a worldly political kingdom Jews of the day were expecting.
 
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