What is a work?

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
He did tell us to preach and heal. He also told us to give people food and water and to treat their needs. But, hey, next time you get sick, don't go to the doc, just holler at me and I'll pray for you...or you could do both...

then jesus contradicted himself.
surely his point was to have his followers show the world the power of god...
but the reality is it doesn't happen

but of course we are to rely on our own sense of responsibility and empathy to help those in need...no one needs god to do that...

what would make god stand out is if his followers did lay hands and we wouldn't need medicine in the first place....

reality vs. the bible...

and to wrap this up a work is something you do, and apparently all believers are capable to save themselves...

a spiritual...well, no, more like an emotional self preservation defense mechanism, survival of the fittest it seems

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

waitasec said:
then jesus contradicted himself.

Never.

surely his point was to have his followers show the world the power of god...
but the reality is it doesn't happen

It did happen, they were called confirming signs.

but of course we are to rely on our own sense of responsibility and empathy to help those in need...no one needs god to do that...

It helps...a lot.

what would make god stand out is if his followers did lay hands and we wouldn't need medicine in the first place..

Sometimes people are healed but it is always to confirm the message of the Gospel.

reality vs. the bible...

The Bible is reality.

and to wrap this up a work is something you do, and apparently all believers are capable to save themselves...

No. Nobody can save them-self, only Jesus saves. Works are a result and evidence of someone having been freely saved by grace through faith.

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
Never.

john 3:16
matthew 25:31-46

It did happen, they were called confirming signs.

are you "they"

It helps...a lot.

that is reality.

Sometimes people are healed but it is always to confirm the message of the Gospel.

why sometimes...maybe there isn't that much space in heaven.
so too bad for those who need a miracle to enable them to believe.

The Bible is reality.

pseudo reality

No. Nobody can save them-self, only Jesus saves. Works are a result and evidence of someone having been freely saved by grace through faith.

yes you save yourself by believing...that is a work that is something you are responsible for.

grace is a gift offered, it is still up to you to take it.
so yes, you are apart of the dynamic of being saved. that is reality.

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? James 2

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? James 2

his opening statement in chapter 2 was about the church showing favoritism towards the rich...what does that profit a believer?

do you own the responsibility for your choice to believe?

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

waitasec said:
his opening statement in chapter 2 was about the church showing favoritism towards the rich...what does that profit a believer?

It doesn't.

do you own the responsibility for your choice to believe?

No. Salvation is all from God. Salvation, grace and faith are all gifts of God.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
It doesn't.-

why would you say that?
here

james 2:1 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.

No. Salvation is all from God. Salvation, grace and faith are all gifts of God.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2

you dodged the question...
do you own your belief?

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

waitasec said:
why would you say that?
here

james 2:1 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you asked what it profits us to show favoritism to the rich. I said it doesn't.

you dodged the question...
do you own your belief?

I said No.

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you asked what it profits us to show favoritism to the rich.

whew....
no worries.

I said it doesn't.I said No.

so how does belief make a difference?

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

waitasec said:
so how does belief make a difference?

I believe that we must believe Jesus paid our sin-debt. Its like he provided the parachute, but we must take it and put it on.

e.r.m. · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
I believe that we must believe Jesus paid our sin-debt. Its like he provided the parachute, but we must take it and put it on.

I'll substitute a parachute with clothes.

(NASB) Galatians 3:26-27
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Through baptism done in faith.

waitasec · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
I believe that we must believe Jesus paid our sin-debt. Its like he provided the parachute, but we must take it and put it on.

but you don't own that belief...you didn't decide to believe that...so you say.
how would belief make a difference...i'm not talking about what jesus is offering...
i am talking about owning the belief of what jesus is supposedly offering

javajo · Oct 19, 2011

e r.m. said:
I'll substitute a parachute with clothes.

(NASB) Galatians 3:26-27
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Through baptism done in faith.

We were baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, not by water: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.e 1 Cor. 12:13o

waitasec said:
but you don't own that belief...you didn't decide to believe that...so you say.
how would belief make a difference...i'm not talking about what jesus is offering...
i am talking about owning the belief of what jesus is supposedly offering

Eh, I dunno. I believe I am a sinner and Christ paid for my sins. I just trust him for that. I don't know what else to say about it.

e.r.m. · Oct 19, 2011

javajo said:
We were baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, not by water: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.e 1 Cor. 12:13o

Eh, I dunno. I believe I am a sinner and Christ paid for my sins. I just trust him for that. I don't know what else to say about it.

The word dipize in Greek in Galatians 3:26-27 is water immersion. So it holds.

sandy whitelinger · Oct 20, 2011

waitasec said:
they become learned

Nothng to do with Biblical salvation or faith then. And you wonder why I ask you to quit changing the subject.

sandy whitelinger · Oct 20, 2011

waitasec said:
so faith just is...
like having blue eyes...you just have them without doing anything?

seems pretty convenient.

Changing the subject again.

sandy whitelinger · Oct 20, 2011

waitasec said:
the book of james presents a conundrum...

Not at all. The Bible is very clear that works will not save you.

sandy whitelinger · Oct 20, 2011

javajo said:
Nah. He just says that if we see no evidence of someone's faith, its probably not real faith.

Jesus seems to agree with you. But, to be clear, one's faith alone will not save them...Jesus has to accept it as well.

e.r.m. · Oct 20, 2011

waitasec said:
mt 28:16
the great commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

mark 16 is the great commission, unless you are willing to concede that
the gospels really don't give you an accurate picture of jesus and is subjected to a specific audience.

the pink elephant just did a doo doo...
careful you might step in it... :sarcastic

"I am with you always...", not the gifts.

waitasec · Oct 20, 2011

sandy whitelinger said:
And what does the world say happens when one becomes learned?

sandy whitelinger said:
Nothng to do with Biblical salvation or faith then. And you wonder why I ask you to quit changing the subject.

why did you ask me that question then...?

What is a work?

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