What is a work?

[Villager]

Here is the verse again: Shew me (a man) thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee (a man) my faith by my works. James 2:18b
Note the parenthesis. The only way a man can really know for sure that another man has trusted Christ is to see the results for himself, with his own eyes.

Very good. The whole letter is about that, though few seem to notice. It's a double whammy for the devil and his nominal followers, as well as his works salvationists.

 

[waitasec]

Once again that would be nice if the Bible consisted of only the book of James.

the book of james presents a conundrum...

 

[javajo]

the book of james presents a conundrum...

Nah. He just says that if we see no evidence of someone's faith, its probably not real faith. If someone asks me for help and I don't care or love them enough to help them, they could rightly believe Christ is not in me nor I in him. When understood in light of other scripture it is no biggie.

 

[waitasec]

Nah. He just says that if we see no evidence of someone's faith, its probably not real faith. If someone asks me for help and I don't care or love them enough to help them, they could rightly believe Christ is not in me nor I in him. When understood in light of other scripture it is no biggie.

but it does present a problem...

for instance those parents that ended up killing their children by not giving them their medicine, were indeed showing their faith by believing god would heal them by their action of not giving their children medicine...

which presents a conundrum...when it counts the most faith, and deeds done in faith, seems to fail.

i have a pretty good idea why that happened, but some choose to live with the pink elephant.

 

[javajo]

but it does present a problem...

for instance those parents that ended up killing their children by not giving them their medicine, were indeed showing their faith by believing god would heal them by their action of not giving their children medicine...

which presents a conundrum...when it counts the most faith, and deeds done in faith, seems to fail.

i have a pretty good idea why that happened, but some choose to live with the pink elephant.

I understand, but that is different. Those parents did not really understand the Bible. They did no "deeds done in faith" to add to their faith. What did Jesus say the Good Samaritan did? He dressed the man's wounds and got him food, clothing and shelter, and paid for anything he might have needed. Those parents should have done everything practical to help their children, including giving them medicine they knew would help them. Its like telling someone dying of cold and hunger, "Eh, be ye warmed and fed and God bless you", and not giving them what they need to live. Its ok to pray for God to help or heal someone, but we are to do all we can for them and then leave the rest up to God.

 

[waitasec]

I understand, but that is different. Those parents did not really understand the Bible. They did no "deeds done in faith" to add to their faith. What did Jesus say the Good Samaritan did? He dressed the man's wounds and got him food, clothing and shelter, and paid for anything he might have needed. Those parents should have done everything practical to help their children, including giving them medicine they knew would help them. Its like telling someone dying of cold and hunger, "Eh, be ye warmed and fed and God bless you", and not giving them what they need to live. Its ok to pray for God to help or heal someone, but we are to do all we can for them and then leave the rest up to God.

so jesus was only kidding when he said:
mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

he wanted his followers to preach and show the world miraculous signs done in his name, right?
that is the point of not giving your sick child medicine to show that god will heal sickness, not medicine.

 

[javajo]

so jesus was only kidding when he said:
mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

he wanted his followers to preach and show the world miraculous signs done in his name, right?
that is the point of not giving your sick child medicine to show that god will heal sickness, not medicine.

That needs balance. Jesus also said to help in practical ways, like the Good Samaritan dressing the man's wounds, giving people food and water, etc. It would be foolish to walk up to someone dying of thirst and instead of giving them water you lay hands on them and pray for them to be healed. I won't get into what all that passage you posted means to me. Jesus and James also meant that we must have charity, which is love in action, whether its helping a friend at work or applying a bandage or giving someone a cup of water. When we see someone in need and don't help them in real, tangible ways, but just say, "God bless you, I'll say a prayer and light a candle for you." Then we have not yet arrived.

 

[waitasec]

That needs balance. Jesus also said to help in practical ways, like the Good Samaritan dressing the man's wounds, giving people food and water, etc. It would be foolish to walk up to someone dying of thirst and instead of giving them water you lay hands on them and pray for them to be healed. I won't get into what all that passage you posted means to me. Jesus and James also meant that we must have charity, which is love in action, whether its helping a friend at work or applying a bandage or giving someone a cup of water. When we see someone in need and don't help them in real, tangible ways, but just say, "God bless you, I'll say a prayer and light a candle for you." Then we have not yet arrived.

so...
what is the great commission all about?



the pink elephant just farted...peeeyuuuu

 

[e.r.m.]

so jesus was only kidding when he said:
mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

he wanted his followers to preach and show the world miraculous signs done in his name, right?
that is the point of not giving your sick child medicine to show that god will heal sickness, not medicine.

Those things did happen and were fulfilled. Jesus did not say they would continue forever.
Those parents tried to impose on God to follow their preconceived beliefs. They did not consult God about God's will. It's a common fallacy among certain religious groups about medicine.

 

[waitasec]

Those things did happen and were fulfilled. Jesus did not say they would continue forever.
Those parents tried to impose on God to follow their will. They did not consult God about God's will.

so when exactly did it stop

 

[Villager]

so jesus was only kidding when he said:
mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

he wanted his followers to preach and show the world miraculous signs done in his name, right?

Incorrect. The gospel is just the news that Jesus died for the hearer, without any bribe or frightener. The only sign given to most people is the the 'sign of Jonah', i.e.the news that Jesus was raised to life. The passage quoted above is not from the Bible, as is well known.

And this is nothing to do with James and works. $100 fine for trollery and costs.

 

[waitasec]

Those things did happen and were fulfilled. Jesus did not say they would continue forever.
Those parents tried to impose on God to follow their preconceived beliefs. They did not consult God about God's will. It's a common fallacy among certain religious groups about medicine.

Incorrect. The gospel is just the news that Jesus died for the hearer, without any bribe or frightener. The only sign given to most people is the the 'sign of Jonah', i.e.the news that Jesus was raised to life. The passage quoted above is not from the Bible, as is well known.

And this is nothing to do with James and works. $100 fine for trollery and costs.

mt 28:16
the great commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

mark 16 is the great commission, unless you are willing to concede that
the gospels really don't give you an accurate picture of jesus and is subjected to a specific audience.


the pink elephant just did a doo doo...
careful you might step in it... :sarcastic

 

[waitasec]

And this is nothing to do with James and works. $100 fine for trollery and costs.

of course it does, unless you value paul's words over jesus

 

[javajo]

Not yet arrived...

 

[e.r.m.]

so when exactly did it stop

That is an extensive study about the gifts of the Spirit. Go ahead and take the time and study it out and then we can compare notes.

 

[waitasec]

That is an extensive study about the gifts of the Spirit. Go ahead and take the time and study it out and then we can compare notes.

oh i see so you don't know when that happened...





i think you just stepped in the pink elephants mess...

 

[waitasec]

Not yet arrived...

what do you mean by that..


that people aren't supposed to lay their hands on the sick just yet,
or are you referring to e r.m?

 

[javajo]

what do you mean by that..


that people aren't supposed to lay their hands on the sick just yet,
or are you referring to e r.m?

We should pray (lay hands on) the sick but if we don't first do everything practical to help them, we miss part of Jesus' and James' teachings, we have not yet arrived.

 

[waitasec]

We should pray (lay hands on) the sick but if we don't first do everything practical to help them, we miss part of Jesus' and James' teachings, we have not yet arrived.

did jesus say go into the world and preach and heal the sick or not...
or did he say first you have to do everything practical in order to diminish gods power...

 

[javajo]

did jesus say go into the world and preach and heal the sick or not...
or did he say first you have to do everything practical in order to diminish gods power...

He did tell us to preach and heal. He also told us to give people food and water and to treat their needs. But, hey, next time you get sick, don't go to the doc, just holler at me and I'll pray for you...or you could do both...