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What is a work?

Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
James is quite clear when he says a Man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Apparently a contradiction with Paul?
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Shermana said:
James is quite clear when he says a Man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Apparently a contradiction with Paul?
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Apparently, but not really. It is a contradiction with protestantism/evangelicalism doctrine on works (a work is anything you 'do'). The Bible doesn't take the extreme position on works that protestants/evangelicals do-(Luke 6:5-10, for example). Romans 9:32 refers to the bad works as when people do not give God the credit. The Israelites sought righteousness based on faith in the works themselves and not based on faith in God, but it did not put down the works. In 2 Kings 5, Naaman washed in the Jordan and got cleansed. He would not have gotten cleansed if he hadn't washed in the Jordan and he recognized it was God running the show (vs. 15). I suspect the works, where the faith is in "the works", is what Paul is referring to in Ephesians 2:8-9. In which case, it fits perfectly with James.
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Well James quite plainly states some examples which are all based on physical action and deeds. Kinda ties it to obedience to the Law too...
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Shermana said:
Well James quite plainly states some examples which are all based on physical action and deeds. Kinda ties it to obedience to the Law too...
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I agree. Works are not entirely divorced from actions, but I believe the definition of works is specific and not as broad as some make it. I agree that it could refer to obedience to the Law too...
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
I agree. Works are not entirely divorced from actions, but I believe the definition of works is specific and not as broad as some make it. I agree that it could refer to obedience to the Law too...
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:confused:


if it is that specific then what is it?
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
(Headshaking) Equation equals not a definition, lol.

P.S. - I didn't mean "You have to", of course.
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Fine, although irrelevant, one form of Biblical work is legal, ie. following the Mosaic law. Another form is those acts that are acceptable to God when one is lead by the Spirit of God.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
waitasec said:
that is what i don't understand...
how can it say 2 opposing things at once and be taken one way?
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Your confusion is apparent. One area of confusion is also apparent. You want to say that faith is a Biblical work when the Bible is clear that it is not. You also wish to cassify Biblical work by non-Biblical definitions. Another area of confusion is that you either cannot or will not reconcile all of the Scripture surrounding the topic.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Your confusion is apparent. One area of confusion is also apparent. You want to say that faith is a Biblical work when the Bible is clear that it is not. You also wish to cassify Biblical work by non-Biblical definitions. Another area of confusion is that you either cannot or will not reconcile all of the Scripture surrounding the topic.
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no not so clear...


you mean the real world


why would i not want to?
could it be that the reason you question why i don't get it is because of
your failure to reconcile reality with what the bible says?
 
e.r.m.

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
sandy whitelinger said:
Your confusion is apparent. One area of confusion is also apparent. You want to say that faith is a Biblical work when the Bible is clear that it is not. You also wish to cassify Biblical work by non-Biblical definitions. Another area of confusion is that you either cannot or will not reconcile all of the Scripture surrounding the topic.
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I agree with you on the part of waitasec's extra-biblical approach.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
waitasec said:
no not so clear...


you mean the real world


why would i not want to?
could it be that the reason you question why i don't get it is because of
your failure to reconcile reality with what the bible says?
Click to expand...
When wanting to understand what a Biblical concept or principle is, going to sources other than the Bible leads to confusion. It's like trying to understand football by applying the rules of baseball.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
e r.m. said:
You do still need to define works because your circular argument is flawed.
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i have been...
work is an action. it is what you do.
it is not stagnant it is in motion.

ἔργον from a primary (but obsolete) ergo (to work)

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work


translated words
KJV (176) - deed, 22; doing, 1; labour, 1; work, 152;
NAS (169) - action, 1; behavior, 1; deed, 13; deeds, 52; doing, 1; effectual, 1; labor, 1; result, 1; task, 1; what...done, 1; work, 34; works, 62;



Interlinear Study Bible on SearchGodsWord.org
 
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