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What Is Biblical Faith?

CrochetOverCoffee

Ask me anything about the church of Christ.
By this I mean, what does the Bible say faith is, and what it entails?

Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others. I have never seen Paris, New York City, or Beijing, but I have faith that they exist because I have read about them from reliable sources. Faith is also, more broadly, the foundation of our hope as Christians. Because of our belief in the testimony of those long past, written for us in the Bible, we have hope and look forward to the fulfillment of its promises. (Heb. 11:1, paraphrased)

Hebrews 11 gives us a picture of what faithful men did because of their faith.

By faith, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain.
By faith, Noah prepared the ark.
By faith, Abraham went left home without knowing where he was going, dwelt there as a foreigner, sacrificed his son.

So, Biblical faith is faith which causes obedience to God.

James 2:14-26 says, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


So what do we learn by these passages about faith? We must believe, we must obey, and we must do good works, all to have a faith that saves us. Notice that belief is not enough. No one professing to be a Christian believes that the demons are saved, but even they believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Many say this is enough to save someone, but this passage directly refutes that!

Faith and obedience are inextricably linked. But so many say that only faith is required. Should we believe God or men? Must we obey as well as believe to be saved from our sins?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others.
I disagree. Here's a post I made about Hebrews and the English translation of the Greek word 'Pistis' into 'Faith' instead of 'Faithfulness':
I recall that Hebrews 11 often mistranslates to faith what ought to be rendered as faithfulness in order to remove the emphasis on faithfulness and change it into belief. Its easy to see this if you compare Hebrews 10:38 with Habakkuk 2:4
  • [Hab 2:4 NIV] 4 "See, the enemy is puffed up; his desires are not upright--but the righteous person will live by his faithfulness--
  • [Heb 10:38 NIV] 38 And, "But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back."
The English translates into 'Faith' what the original prophet Habakuk calls 'Faithfulness'. The confusion arises from the Greek Koine which uses the same word 'Pistis' to represent either faith or faithfulness or both. It is up to us to determine from context which is meant, and it seems that we cannot trust the translators to make up for the difference between the languages. Context must be used.

I think faith is something other than "Belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others." I think you have to see their faith in action, and I think it often begins with mistrusting someone and then learning that you have been wrong about that someone.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Not a single biblical character had ever need of a faith requirement.


Visiting a foreign country you have never been to, as an example, is misplaced faith at best.

All one has to do is get a passport and actually travel to that country. The Bible cannot match the faith requirements on par with visiting a real country today.

The latter don't require faith whatsoever regardless of whether you've been there or not because of tangible evidences that don't require faith, and the fact that you can actually travel there at any time you wish and can see for oneself is certainly proof of that.
 

CrochetOverCoffee

Ask me anything about the church of Christ.
I disagree. Here's a post I made about Hebrews and the English translation of the Greek word 'Pistis' into 'Faith' instead of 'Faithfulness':

The English translates into 'Faith' what the original prophet Habakuk calls 'Faithfulness'. The confusion arises from the Greek Koine which uses the same word 'Pistis' to represent either faith or faithfulness or both. It is up to us to determine from context which is meant, and it seems that we cannot trust the translators to make up for the difference between the languages. Context must be used.

I think faith is something other than "Belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others." I think you have to see their faith in action, and I think it often begins with mistrusting someone and then learning that you have been wrong about that someone.

It's an interesting point, which I will be checking against some Greek sources I have at my disposal, but let me come at this from the back first: wouldn't someone who is faithful or has the quality of faithfulness by definition have faith?

UPDATE: I did check and you are right that the word pistin is interchangeable for both faith and faithfulness. But again, does that really change the meaning of the passage?
 
Last edited:

MyM

Well-Known Member
By this I mean, what does the Bible say faith is, and what it entails?

Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others. I have never seen Paris, New York City, or Beijing, but I have faith that they exist because I have read about them from reliable sources. Faith is also, more broadly, the foundation of our hope as Christians. Because of our belief in the testimony of those long past, written for us in the Bible, we have hope and look forward to the fulfillment of its promises. (Heb. 11:1, paraphrased)

Hebrews 11 gives us a picture of what faithful men did because of their faith.

By faith, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain.
By faith, Noah prepared the ark.
By faith, Abraham went left home without knowing where he was going, dwelt there as a foreigner, sacrificed his son.

So, Biblical faith is faith which causes obedience to God.

James 2:14-26 says, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


So what do we learn by these passages about faith? We must believe, we must obey, and we must do good works, all to have a faith that saves us. Notice that belief is not enough. No one professing to be a Christian believes that the demons are saved, but even they believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Many say this is enough to save someone, but this passage directly refutes that!

Faith and obedience are inextricably linked. But so many say that only faith is required. Should we believe God or men? Must we obey as well as believe to be saved from our sins?

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20

I was raised a born again Christian (until I found Islam) but I was taught all you have to do to get saved was accept Jesus into your heart and be saved..then baptised...I went through the entire ordeal. From babyhood until adult.

As I got older, I started thinkin ...that is just a leeway to commit sin. If Jesus was God, and God is being taught "God is Love" all the time, how can it be that easy to get to Heaven? It gave me an open door to sin. It just doesn't make since to say God is love all the time and faith is all you need to get to heaven when clearly the Bible says otherwise. God is not love all the time if he has a wrath clearly.

So if you are told to do good deeds from the Bible, then how come the preachers tell you only to have faith?
 

CrochetOverCoffee

Ask me anything about the church of Christ.
Not a single biblical character had ever need of a faith requirement.


Visiting a foreign country you have never been to, as an example, is misplaced faith at best.

All one has to do is get a passport and actually travel to that country. The Bible cannot match the faith requirements on par with visiting a real country today.

The latter don't require faith whatsoever regardless of whether you've been there or not because of tangible evidences that don't require faith, and the fact that you can actually travel there at any time you wish and can see for oneself is certainly proof of that.

So do you really think that Noah, for example, built the ark without having faith? That faith that it would be needed was not required when it had never yet rained on the earth?

Do you really think Abraham didn't need to believe in order to uproot his family and move into a new country?

Do you think that Moses didn't need to believe in order to lead all Israel out of Egypt?

Tell me again how no biblical characters required faith?
 

CrochetOverCoffee

Ask me anything about the church of Christ.
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20

I was raised a born again Christian (until I found Islam) but I was taught all you have to do to get saved was accept Jesus into your heart and be saved..then baptised...I went through the entire ordeal. From babyhood until adult.

As I got older, I started thinkin ...that is just a leeway to commit sin. If Jesus was God, and God is being taught "God is Love" all the time, how can it be that easy to get to Heaven? It gave me an open door to sin. It just doesn't make since to say God is love all the time and faith is all you need to get to heaven when clearly the Bible says otherwise. God is not love all the time if he has a wrath clearly.

So if you are told to do good deeds from the Bible, then how come the preachers tell you only to have faith?

My contention is that these preachers are teaching falsehood.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Should we believe God or men?
Both or neither-- it doesn't need be a dichotomy.

The Bible is about God but is not God, and we've discussed this before. Sometimes "men" tell the Truth-- sometimes they don't. After all, the Bible was largely written by "men".

Jesus' message of "love one another" strongly resonates with me, and I try to do the best to live up to that-- but I don't always succeed.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It's an interesting point, which I will be checking against some Greek sources I have at my disposal, but let me come at this from the back first: wouldn't someone who is faithful by definition have faith?
I perceive you are about to be deluged with responses for other people, so in mercy I will keep this short.

What I think is that faith and faithfulness are related, and that is why they happen to be represented by the same Greek Koine term in the NT. I just think that there is far, far too much emphasis upon belief. I think that if you have faithfulness as small as a mustard seed you can move a mountain, if only a little at a time.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
So do you really think that Noah, for example, built the ark without having faith? That faith that it would be needed was not required when it had never yet rained on the earth?

Do you really think Abraham didn't need to believe in order to uproot his family and move into a new country?

Do you think that Moses didn't need to believe in order to lead all Israel out of Egypt?

Tell me again how no biblical characters required faith?

Now that I am Muslim, my belief is a bit different now as to the Prophets. Actually, All prophets of God were sent to tell the world about one God as in the Bible and Quran. That's why He sent prophets to warn the people to get back on the right track. He sent laws and commandments and in the Bible Jesus says he is not bringing anything new. But yet, all they teach is "faith" contrary to what the Bible teaches. Oh I totally believe in all the messengers and prophets of God. :) I just don't believe the Bible isn't free from contradiction, nor the pastors bringing truth about the real message. :)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
By this I mean, what does the Bible say faith is, and what it entails?
Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others. I have never seen Paris, New York City, or Beijing, but I have faith that they exist because I have read about them from reliable sources. Faith is also, more broadly, the foundation of our hope as Christians. Because of our belief in the testimony of those long past, written for us in the Bible, we have hope and look forward to the fulfillment of its promises. (Heb. 11:1, paraphrased).......
Hebrews 11 gives us a picture of what faithful men did because of their faith........
Faith and obedience are inextricably linked. But so many say that only faith is required. Should we believe God or men? Must we obey as well as believe to be saved from our sins?

I find when people use the word faith they are really meaning or talking about 'credulity' ( blind faith )
Biblical faith is confidence in what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught to have faith / confidence in Scripture - John 17:17 - Scripture is religious truth.
Jesus being well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures could use logical reasoning on them to explain and expound Scripture for us.
So, when we have faith/confidence in Scripture we will obey what Jesus taught such as carrying out his words found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8. Seems that most people don't want to do what Jesus instructed.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I find when people use the word faith they are really meaning or talking about 'credulity' ( blind faith )
Biblical faith is confidence in what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught to have faith / confidence in Scripture - John 17:17 - Scripture is religious truth.
Jesus being well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures could use logical reasoning on them to explain and expound Scripture for us.
So, when we have faith/confidence in Scripture we will obey what Jesus taught such as carrying out his words found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8. Seems that most people don't want to do what Jesus instructed.
This is faith .. Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink
?

URAVIP2ME the Righteous are those who do right.. They have Faith PLUS Works of the heart!

These people have "Faith ALONE" they do Nothing! Faith ALONE does NOT save these people with Faith ALONE are the goats!
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.


James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

URAVIP2ME Do you see it? DOING RIGHT saves!

Look...
Eph 2:10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
By this I mean, what does the Bible say faith is, and what it entails?

Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others. I have never seen Paris, New York City, or Beijing, but I have faith that they exist because I have read about them from reliable sources. Faith is also, more broadly, the foundation of our hope as Christians. Because of our belief in the testimony of those long past, written for us in the Bible, we have hope and look forward to the fulfillment of its promises. (Heb. 11:1, paraphrased)

Hebrews 11 gives us a picture of what faithful men did because of their faith.

By faith, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain.
By faith, Noah prepared the ark.
By faith, Abraham went left home without knowing where he was going, dwelt there as a foreigner, sacrificed his son.

So, Biblical faith is faith which causes obedience to God.

James 2:14-26 says, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


So what do we learn by these passages about faith? We must believe, we must obey, and we must do good works, all to have a faith that saves us. Notice that belief is not enough. No one professing to be a Christian believes that the demons are saved, but even they believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Many say this is enough to save someone, but this passage directly refutes that!

Faith and obedience are inextricably linked. But so many say that only faith is required. Should we believe God or men? Must we obey as well as believe to be saved from our sins?

Ive been to those cities, lived in one of them. Trust me, they are real.
Trust this too- there is a basic equivocation
error in your use of the word " faith".

Sure, faith that McDonalds food is still the same.
Or in Beijing smog.

Thing is, the great abundance of evidence,
the incredible conspiracy needed to fool you-
and if it matters, go see for yourself.
Eat a big M.

The Mormons have their deal- faith in J Smith,
faith in the witnesses, faith in all those other
Mormons.
But like Faith in God, you absolutely cannot
verify.
And you cannot verify the authenticity of
the witnesses.

So...careful with analogies. Or faith v Faith!
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I find when people use the word faith they are really meaning or talking about 'credulity' ( blind faith )
Biblical faith is confidence in what Jesus taught.
Jesus taught to have faith / confidence in Scripture - John 17:17 - Scripture is religious truth.
Jesus being well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures could use logical reasoning on them to explain and expound Scripture for us.
So, when we have faith/confidence in Scripture we will obey what Jesus taught such as carrying out his words found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8. Seems that most people don't want to do what Jesus instructed.
How is that not blind faith?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
...................As I got older, I started thinkin ...that is just a leeway to commit sin. If Jesus was God, and God is being taught "God is Love" all the time, how can it be that easy to get to Heaven? It gave me an open door to sin. It just doesn't make since to say God is love all the time and faith is all you need to get to heaven when clearly the Bible says otherwise. God is not love all the time if he has a wrath clearly.
So if you are told to do good deeds from the Bible, then how come the preachers tell you only to have faith?

I am so sorry to read about your bad experience with 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ).
No leeway to commit sin because the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' as per Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35.
In other words, God's wrath is against the wicked. - Proverbs 2:21-22.
The free-will choice is to ' repent ' (stop what you are doing) if you don't want to perish (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9
God forces No wicked person to worship Him, but if let go wicked people would kill off righteous people.
So, for the sake of humble meek people Jesus will have to take the action of Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.

In Scripture, we find at Psalms 90:2 that God is from everlasting.... ( No beginning for God )
That means that only God was ' before ' the beginning of Creation.
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning.....
So, Jesus was Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.....
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

The type of faith Jesus taught was to have 'faith aka confidence' in Scripture - John 17:17 - as religious truth.
Jesus never taught ' blind faith ' ( credulity ) but to have confidence in what he was teaching.
Since, the Bible does Not teach and 'open door' for sinning, I hope you would consider looking into the Bible for more information and to put aside wrong clergy teachings.
Remember: wrong clergy teachings do Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes wrong clergy teachings as wrong.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
I am so sorry to read about your bad experience with 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ).
No leeway to commit sin because the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' as per Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35.
In other words, God's wrath is against the wicked. - Proverbs 2:21-22.
The free-will choice is to ' repent ' (stop what you are doing) if you don't want to perish (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9
God forces No wicked person to worship Him, but if let go wicked people would kill off righteous people.
So, for the sake of humble meek people Jesus will have to take the action of Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.

In Scripture, we find at Psalms 90:2 that God is from everlasting.... ( No beginning for God )
That means that only God was ' before ' the beginning of Creation.
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning.....
So, Jesus was Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.....
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

The type of faith Jesus taught was to have 'faith aka confidence' in Scripture - John 17:17 - as religious truth.
Jesus never taught ' blind faith ' ( credulity ) but to have confidence in what he was teaching.
Since, the Bible does Not teach and 'open door' for sinning, I hope you would consider looking into the Bible for more information and to put aside wrong clergy teachings.
Remember: wrong clergy teachings do Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes wrong clergy teachings as wrong.

Thank you for that warm explanation. I do believe now I am in the true faith 100% without a doubt. :)

There are a lot of things I have found out about the Bible and the verses you have quoted. Mostly that many of the verses you and others quote are not proven to be from Jesus himself. Very few words in the Bible are. The ones that are talk about God not himself for he said he cannot do anything but except by the one who sent me. He said the Lord thy God is ONE lord. My problem mainly deals with the trinity. :) Does not make sense to me since we know all the prophets from before preached one God and so did Jesus so what gave Paul the right to change it especially when Jesus said he didn't come to change the law. :)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
How is that not blind faith?
I suppose there are lots of people who think studying the Bible is credulity.
I can't find where the teachings of Jesus are wrong, or that Jesus did Not use logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words ' It is written....' meaning already written down in the OT.
In other words, Jesus did Not base his teaching on credulity (blind faith) but based his teachings on the old Hebrew Scriptures explaining them, expounding them for us.

No other book besides the Bible is translated into more languages, and what other book has more earth-wide distribution than the Bible________
With all the enemies the Bible has if it were Not from God the Bible would have been destroyed long ago.
Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible from remote translation offices so that people even in remote areas of Earth now have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
I suppose there are lots of people who think studying the Bible is credulity.
I can't find where the teachings of Jesus are wrong, or that Jesus did Not use logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words ' It is written....' meaning already written down in the OT.
In other words, Jesus did Not base his teaching on credulity (blind faith) but based his teachings on the old Hebrew Scriptures explaining them, expounding them for us.

No other book besides the Bible is translated into more languages, and what other book has more earth-wide distribution than the Bible________
With all the enemies the Bible has if it were Not from God the Bible would have been destroyed long ago.
Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible from remote translation offices so that people even in remote areas of Earth now have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.

Then you have more than one version of the Bible. why?
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
By this I mean, what does the Bible say faith is, and what it entails?

Faith is belief that comes from hearing or reading the testimony of others. I have never seen Paris, New York City, or Beijing, but I have faith that they exist because I have read about them from reliable sources. Faith is also, more broadly, the foundation of our hope as Christians. Because of our belief in the testimony of those long past, written for us in the Bible, we have hope and look forward to the fulfillment of its promises. (Heb. 11:1, paraphrased)

Hebrews 11 gives us a picture of what faithful men did because of their faith.

By faith, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain.
By faith, Noah prepared the ark.
By faith, Abraham went left home without knowing where he was going, dwelt there as a foreigner, sacrificed his son.

So, Biblical faith is faith which causes obedience to God.

James 2:14-26 says, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,' but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


So what do we learn by these passages about faith? We must believe, we must obey, and we must do good works, all to have a faith that saves us. Notice that belief is not enough. No one professing to be a Christian believes that the demons are saved, but even they believe that Jesus is the Son of God! Many say this is enough to save someone, but this passage directly refutes that!

Faith and obedience are inextricably linked. But so many say that only faith is required. Should we believe God or men? Must we obey as well as believe to be saved from our sins?

It is not just a set of beliefs, but a set of beliefs that motivate behavior. Rather than saying 'I have faith,' you might say 'I am faithing.'
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.....There are a lot of things I have found out about the Bible and the verses you have quoted. Mostly that many of the verses you and others quote are not proven to be from Jesus himself. Very few words in the Bible are. The ones that are talk about God not himself for he said he cannot do anything but except by the one who sent me. He said the Lord thy God is ONE lord. My problem mainly deals with the trinity. :) Does not make sense to me since we know all the prophets from before preached one God and so did Jesus so what gave Paul the right to change it especially when Jesus said he didn't come to change the law. :)

Jesus came to ' fulfill' the Law. Christians do Not live under the old Constitution of the Mosaic law.
Jesus gave a 'New Commandment' found at John 13:34-35.
That is to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.

What problem with the trinity, or a trinity because there is No triune God in the Bible.
I find Psalms 90:2 teaches that God (singular) is from everlasting ( that means No beginning for God )
Jesus taught at Revelation 4:11 that his God is Creator.
In the Bible, it teaches that pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning. Not before the beginning.
There is No Scripture that teaches God was in any beginning, but God was ' before' the beginning.
Please notice Revelation 3:12 because it is about the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus who thinks he still has a God over him. Then notice Revelation 3:21 because there are No three thrones (trinity of thrones) mentioned.
Also, at Hebrews 9:24 the resurrected-to-heaven Jesus appears before the person of his God.
Paul did Not change any of that because please read Colossians 1:15 because Paul believed pre-human Jesus was the firstborn of all creation as did John at Revelation 3:14 B.
So, I see No where that Paul changed things - Hebrews 1:3 - heavenly Jesus sits down at God's right hand....
 
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