What is Contemplative Christianity?

[Yoshua]

I apologize then. But for your information, whenever you used the "facepalm" emoticon, what it generally means is "you idiot". The emoticon is generally an insult or an expression of shock or disappointment in another, not a "Hey, I like that", meaning. No need to pray about it to understand its common meanings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facepalm

It's like if someone gives you the middle finger. We pretty much understand what the person means. I'd suggest you rather research out the meaning of these things before you use them in the future. Just stick with smiley faces or winking. It's safer for you, I think.

Ok. Thanks for clearing this facepalm like clapping hands.

Claiming enlightenment and being enlightened are two entirely different matters. If someone is enlightened, it will show. Is the basis for an enlightened soul God? Absolutely. There is only One God. If they touch the Face of the Eternal, it's the same Face for everyone, even though each may speak of it in different terms due to the differences between us in culture and language. I know this is hard for you to accept.

Hmmm. It seems like a new Age thinking. By the way, do you consider yourself as a New Ager practitioner rather than a Christian?

Well, actually, it's what Jesus and the entire NT is about. I know this is something hard for you to grasp as well. You approach the NT rather like the OT. Jesus' message was to shift the focus away from an emphasis on following all the rules and codes of conduct that the priest felt was import to follow in "obeying God", while in reality they were missing the entire point of what it means to live for God, which was Love. He was focused on the inside, the inner spiritual life as foremost and primary, and all the rest, the external stuff would flow out from there. I can provide long lists of scriptures that support this, but again it's hard to since it's really the entire NT itself that says this.

If one reads the Bible and does not have that inner spiritual voice guiding them, they end up making the NT another sort of OT. They are essentially doing everything that Jesus said not to do. As I said above, your focus on lists of do's and don'ts miss the entire point of Jesus' message.

If you believe in Jesus message, why do you need a Higher Self? The Scripture stated that we are complete with Christ?

Col. 2:9-10
9. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10. and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

When I say if what you are doing brings you closer to God, and it is known by the fruit you bear, where you actually fulfill the law from the heart without getting hung up on crap like picking up sticks on the Sabbath, or praying only exactly as you believe is dictated by God in the Bible, then you are actually obeying Jesus' commandments to his followers. You are then actually following what Jesus taught. The law is fulfilled by working on the inside first, not by whitewashing the outside, and then from that, from the inside all else flows outward. That is Jesus' entire message in a nutshell. And the practice of meditation is, how shall we say, a deep cleaning of the inside of the cup first.

It has clear scriptural support because it is obeying Jesus' command to make clean the inside of the cup first. It is fulfilling Jesus' injunction to seek God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. That's what meditation practice is in fact doing. Seeking God. Then the outside just follows from there without effort, without obsessing about the things you obsess about.

The reason why Jesus came here is to save us from sins and give hope of salvation. This is exactly where I’m pointing, and not lived by the law of OT. It is a matter of submission if a person should obey and submit to His will, not in superficial ways but in total commitment to His word.

Did you know what happened in China, as those underground Chinese Christians were very thirst in the word of God. They came to a point that they distributed the pages of the Bible individually as their own spiritual food. A Christian who was caught having a Bible is persecuted and jailed. If the Chinese look at Christianity as following Christ in Higher Self, why they need the word badly?

If a Christian does not submit to His word (as you termed it as “dictation”), where is the commitment that he is submitting to God’s teaching? It is none and void, but swaying his desire to follow other truths that he knows.

This is the best example of how they were so passionate with the Scriptures.

Chinese Christians, Starved for God's Word, Receive Bibles—for Many; their First
Aimee Herd : Mar 22, 2013 : Staff – Mission Network News

". . . like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the Word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord." 1 Peter 2:2-3 NASB

EDITOR'S NOTE: Back in 1997 I had the great privilege of joining with a Bible League group on a Bible-smuggling trip to Vietnam. While some of our group had their luggage confiscated and Bibles removed by customs officials there, others—myself included—managed to sneak through a couple of bags full. Later, as we gave them out, I witnessed first-hand the incalculable value that those Vietnamese Christians held for God's Word. The same is true of Chinese Believers, as mentioned in the following report. May we all "tremble" at His Word. –Aimee Herd, BCN.

(China)—Earlier this month, the group Bibles for China distributed some 20,000 complete Bibles in Mandarin to Chinese Believers hungry for God's Word.

According to the Mission Network News report, some of the Bible recipients had been following the Lord Jesus for 40 years in the rural areas of China, without any access to Scriptures whatsoever.

The group notes that still "about half of China's 100 million Believers don't have a Bible."

Bibles for China buys the Bibles which are reportedly "complete" and "printed legally in China" and gives them without charge to Chinese Christians who don't have one.

The report says that the crowds of those wanting a Bible were "overflowing" at each church where they were to be distributed. And, as they received God's Word, many shared their stories with the team handing them out.

One recipient was 91, and had waited 50 years for this—his first Bible.

"He was so grateful to have a Bible," described a team member, "that out of his minimal resources [he] gave our team a small bottle of honey he had processed.

"We would have given the gift back . . . but we would never insult him in that way, as he also wanted to experience the blessing of giving a gift that honored the Lord."

A very poignant video, posted on YouTube, vividly records the jubilation of Chinese Believers receiving their first Bible. In the video (original source unknown), the suitcase of Bibles is put on the floor and the Chinese Christians, starved for the Word, swarm around it. Many of them hold their new Bible to their heart and kiss it with tears rolling down their cheeks; others hurriedly pull off the plastic wrapper to open it—for many, their first look at Scripture.

Watch the video by clicking on the following link; you'll be glad you did: www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yhvranRtlKk

With this, they are not worshiping the Bible as their God, but the importance of God’s word in their spiritual life. Truly the word of God is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,(2 Tim. 3:16).

As Jesus said,
Mark 13:31
31. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

No it's not. I offer you the entire NT, but when you read it as a fundamentalist you will not hear or see what I hear or see. You need to focus on the inside of the cup. I'm looking forward to hearing the focus in you shift to where Jesus said to look first. "Seek first the kingdom of God, and all the rest will be added unto you". "The kingdom of God is inside you".

Did Jesus told us that the kingdom is inside us? How come? What is the basis?

You're submitting yourself to your ideas about God, which looks like legalism. The Pharisees Jesus rebuked believed they were doing the same you are claiming to do. You strain at gnats while you swallow a camel whole. Seek first instead the kingdom of God which is within you. Reading about God, is not hearing God.

Why so afraid to read the word of God, why? A follower of Christ should not be afraid with God’s word. What’s wrong with God’s word as the light into you path?

Luke 11:28
28. But He said, "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!''

John 17:17
17. "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

There is no truth, if we move away from His word.

Thanks

 

[Windwalker]

This is based on the psychologist perspective. It is no concern with me if he believe that hypnosis is not the same as meditation.

He doesn't "believe" it. He demonstrated it scientifically. There's a whopping big difference there. And yes, it should concern you that it's not the same as meditation practices, because what you say that your "house is left empty" when you meditate and devils can jump into you, as you badly quoted Luke 11:24-26 to support your "belief" that meditation opens you to demon possession! Those who say that based it upon the "belief" that meditation is some form of self-hypnosis.

On the contrary, the scientific research shows what mystics have said from the beginning, that you are rather more aware, less vulnerable in mind to suggestions than even "normal" consciousness. So, those who you follow are simply wrong. There is no susceptibility to suggestion going on in meditation.

As I said, meditation is a general term. If I say that meditation is hypnosis, then everybody including me is hypnotized.

Nonsense, we are talking about contemplative practices, and you know it. We're not talking about "pondering thoughts". The sort of meditation I am talking about where you empty or still the mind of discursive thoughts, is not the same as hypnosis. So it annihilates your ill-informed claims that it renders you susceptible to possession or evil influence, or even deception. You should care, if you give two hoots about truth.

Any teachings or practices that is not in line with the truth of Scriptures is prone to deception not particularly demon-possession.

Chapter and verse please? Please, please, please support this claim with scripture. You can't? Oh. Self-annihilating loop going on here.

But again, what we are practicing is in fact in line with scriptures, even if scripture doesn't explain the actual techniques used which it doesn't for your practices either (care to put those to the test here?). I have shown you that countless times. Please read and listen to our words, for a change.

There are various ways of deception: deception by false teachings & practices, occultism, New Age, cult teachings and others. This is the basis.

Which is why meditation will help you from having a dull mind and being hoodwinked by charlatans handling snakes and casting out demons! Gird up the loins of your mind, man.

Basis can be done thru Scripture checking.

Heb. 13:9
9. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

That's does say anything about meditation practices. Where is the verse that says "don't practice sitting still and quieting the mind". This verse doesn't say that.

 

[Windwalker]

Hi Windwalker,

From post no. 717
I believed you are seeking to know what isCentering and Breathe Prayer.By Yoshua

First of all, I know what it is. I practice it.By Windwalker

It is because you answered me that you practice it. So, it is clear to me that Sojourner is practicing Centering and Breathe Prayer while for you is the Integral and meditation of Higher Self.

First, I said I practice Centering Prayer. I was simply unfamiliar with having "And Breathe Prayer" tacked onto it as a thing. I'd never seen that before, Thomas Keating who started Centering Prayer has never called it that, that I'm aware of. No big deal.

As far as "Integral" goes, that's not a form of meditation practice. And I'm curious if you even understand what "meditation of higher Self" actually means? Care to try to explain?

In fact, I'd enjoy hearing you put into your own words what you believe we do in meditation practices. To be critical of them, you should first be able to demonstrate you understand what it is we are actually doing. So next post from you, explain what it looks like for us. Explain what we are doing. Considering you just asked me what we do, it seems you don't know. And therefore, you're against something you don't even know that we are doing! Too funny. Why did it take me this long to see that?

Actually, those are the things that I’ve mentioning here before. The mantra chanting adapted from Eastern style. That proves that I’m not mistaken from mentioning these things in this forum.

Yes, mantra practice is adapted from Hinduism. So what? There are tons of things in the Bible that are practices adopted from other religions too. Big deal. Oh, I see. It violates your mythology that the Jewish and Christian traditions have nothing in common with other religions! Haha. Ok, sure. I'd suggest taking a comparative religion course at a college sometime. @Orbit could point you to some good resources to help open your thinking in this regard a little.

As for Centering Prayer, you choose the sacred word and follow the procedures with some recitations.

Yes, that's what I said, except it's not really "recitations". You don't chant them, necessarily. Consider it a "trigger" word. I mean I could go into some depth of how and why it works, but you wouldn't follow it so I won't bother with the effort here. Think of it like a "stimulus-response", thing, like ringing a bell with Pavlov's dogs, if you are familiar with it. Sacred objects are imbued with meaning which engaged the whole person. When one encounters them, they act to engage the whole person towards what they represent. I won't go deeper than that at this point unless you show actual interest in understanding this.

It is central of Jesus teachings? It is not.

Yes it is. I showed you this in my last couple posts particularly, as well as every post in this thread. It is central to Jesus' teaching.

This is where we should now produce the words of Jesus teachings proving that He actually taught us about it.

He taught us what we should do, not the techniques to doing it. I've said this countless times. You cannot show he said not to do it explicitly. If you can show where the practice violates what he instructs us to do, then do so! I claim it fulfills what he told us to do, and have supported that explicitly and clearly. "Make clean the inside of the cup first". That's what this practice does.

They would take the word “Truth,” “Peace,” and “Jesus” and link it with their own system of prayer technique.

Sure, why not? It works. It's good then. Amen.

Nowhere did Jesus teach us the centering prayer technique.

So? Nowhere does Jesus teach you how to be you in figuring out how to live your life. You have to figure out things that work for you to reach the goals. It's not going to be the same for you as it is for others. God certainly understands that! He teaches the Goal, not the means and ways and techniques. You miss this point. I hope this helps you, even just a little.

We may better review the Lord’s Prayer and how He prays to the Father. The Lord’s Prayer is simple, the steps and pattern is a very basic.

So you sit in prayer and recited the Lord's Prayer? Guess what that is? Drumroll................. Mantra Practice!

Why complicate the prayer if the Father knows the things you need before you ask Him?

It's not complicated. And prayer is not for God. It's for you. Prayer is to open you to God. It's practicing..... opening. That's what Centering Prayer is. Practicing "opening".

Getting it yet?

Where and what is the proof or evidence that Belief-1 truly followed the teachings of Jesus? How?

If they are fulfilling the law of love. "Love is the fulfillment of the law". That's how.

Spiritual intimacy with God (from my experience) is allowing myself to be controlled by God as He is the center of my life.

I personally don't think of God as "controlling me". I consider it a cooperation. I would rather flow with Spirit, and it is a choice I make. But what I'm looking for in my question from you is to describe the emotional and spiritual state of being when you experience spiritual intimacy with God. Describe what it feels like, not an "explanation". Would you do that for me?

My submission, commitment and trust with Him would mean total dependency on Him. The dependency means without Him, my life is totally in trouble and not secured.

What happens when you are not actively being religious? Do you fall into self-destructive behaviors, drinking, fighting, lying, hating, etc? Do you find the religion gives you the structures you need to keep you out of trouble?

This is tested when I used to deliver my brothers from the bondage of evil. There is power in the name in Jesus.

Out of curiosity, is the group you are with a Pentecostal group? I've known those who use chanting the name of Jesus to cast out devils. BTW, to say there is "power in the name of Jesus", actually touches on what I said above out your "prayer word"! It's the same thing! This too is what mantra practice teaches, that the words of the mantra have power. "In Jesus' name, I rebuke thee!". And so forth. The word, has power. You see?

The Scripture come inside the picture as my guide, knowing God and Jesus teachings.

Do you ever feel any impression upon your heart from within you, a kind or gentle nudge, or even a kick or two. Do you ever experience God within you? Or is it all from outside of you?

Now, about the feeling, I felt peace, joy, love and security (as well the fruit of the Spirit).

Okay then, here's my answer. So, you feel this within you. Just like us. Have you ever just paused to explore that Peace of God within your heart, to sit with it without trying to analyze it, but rather to "be" within it? Yes? Guess what? That's Contemplative Practice! Congradulations. You're one of us. Now, just practice it as a discipline, opening to that Peace within, as part of your prayer.

Do you really think we are doing something "against scripture"? How can you given what I just said?

The Holy Spirit guidance as the Spirit of Truth convicts me when I’m sinned. He speaks and helped me from understanding the truth of His Words.

Okay, so what happens is at various time certain passages of scripture come to mind and are illuminated with a new understanding for you as part of your response to the Spirit within you? Sounds like what we've been saying? Why are you view us as sinning then, when you do the same thing?

The physical effort that I did is not by my own working but by the working of the Spirit.

That's right. We've never argued it is our physcial effort. We've only ever said it is the work of the Spirit within. The only effort we make, is to not make an effort. To get our physcial effort, as you call it, out of the way. Why do you think we are saying otherwise?

If Christianity does not own God, who do you think the God will own? What belief do you think He will tell to the people about what is the truth?

Beliefs are simply stepping stones. You step upon them to help you cross the river. They are not the destination. I believe any truth that brings you to God is a stone on that path. We are all God's. How little or much we know that, is our own spiritual paths to that Realization.

Windwalker, the issue is not for you, but the practices that is not in line with the Scriptures. It is not personal, but scriptural.

It is completely in line with scripture. Now just stop it, already. I've shown this countless times. If you can show where it is NOT in line with scripture, where it violates Jesus' injunctions to open ourselves to Spirit, then do so now.

How can I be wrong if my basis is the Scripture unless the one that I’m talking to does not believe in the Scripture.

Your basis is on your reading of scripture. Your reading is incorrect, or your understanding of our practices is incorrect. Take your pick. And who says I don't believe in scripture? I believe in them, but I have a different understanding than you. Do you think I have to understand like you do in order to claim I believe? Nonsense! Why not the other way around? You don't hear me saying you don't believe because you don't understand what I do. That's the flesh speaking, saying what you are.

Do you think that before I dwell into discussion about contemplative, I did not aware of what I’m doing? Let us continue to seek what is in the Scripture and what is in contemplative.

Yes, and you've been shown at every point to be wrong. Why can you not accept you have been in error? Do you understand how this just makes you appear stubborn?

 

[Windwalker]

Hmmm. It seems like a new Age thinking. By the way, do you consider yourself as a New Ager practitioner rather than a Christian?

Do you not read my posts, or simply forget what you've read? I went into this many times previously. No, I am not a New Age person, by any means. In fact I demonstrated how what you believe is more consistent with them than my views. And again, since when does someone in "New Age" saying something that others teach make that teaching wrong?

New Age is characteristically defined as co opting other beliefs, and understanding them only on the highest, most shallow possible levels, not really getting what they are saying. It becomes a sort of pseudo-spiritual jargon, a lingo that sounds spiritual and it's really all just fluff and feel-good sugary sweet stuff. Nothing I say is without considerable depth to it. It means nothing to me if "New Age" simply parrots the words without understanding. Plenty of Christians simply parrot words too, quoting scriptures left and right without any depth of understanding whatsoever. "Christianese" is what they call it.

If you believe in Jesus message, why do you need a Higher Self? The Scripture stated that we are complete with Christ?

Explain what you believe "Higher Self" means? And where have I said I "Need a Higher Self"? I'm not even going to begin to speak to this if you do not first explain what you understand, or believe I believe in regards to this.

Col. 2:9-10
9. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10. and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Yep. This is the Self. Christ in you.

The reason why Jesus came here is to save us from sins and give hope of salvation. This is exactly where I’m pointing, and not lived by the law of OT. It is a matter of submission if a person should obey and submit to His will, not in superficial ways but in total commitment to His word.

And you are treating the NT as if it were the OT.

 

[Windwalker]

Did Jesus told us that the kingdom is inside us? How come? What is the basis?

Luke 17:21. The KJV got it right when they translated the Greek "entos" as within. New translations added "among" you to fit theologically, but the word means "inside" you, as it is the word use exactly as it is used when Jesus says make clean the "inside" (entos) of the cup first. Read more explanation of it here: http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol12No2/HV12N2Ramelli.pdf

I would enjoy hearing any insights @sojourner might offer to this.

Why so afraid to read the word of God, why? A follower of Christ should not be afraid with God’s word. What’s wrong with God’s word as the light into you path?

I'm quoting scripture. What's this BS that I'm afraid? Nonsense. Strawman BS. Very obvious tactic.

 

[sojourner]

Hence, we apply the pattern on how to pray through the Lord’s Prayer.

No, that's not what Jesus specifically taught. Jesus said, "when you pray, pray this way: ..." You're speculating upon and adding things to what the Lord actually taught. It's not scriptural.

 

[sojourner]

What is more objective than the truth that it is winter in your place that you standing?

Third party perspective. Some outside authority on the seasons. It may not be winter. It may be fall and just feel like winter.

Do you want to come to a point that you need to change the truth? the reality that it is really winter.

Is it? How do you know? And why is your part of the world any more important than the other half, where it's now summer?

You believe there is evil, but the actual and physical existence? Evil can take its many forms, but originally still an evil spirit.

How so? What makes evil originally "an evil spirit?"

Can you expound more on your position about the evil spirit and the avatar you mentioned?

Satan is an avatar -- an invention of convenience -- not a real entity or person.

Are you a Pantheist? Omnist? Almost same in belief that God is all.

God is not all? Doesn't omnipresence indicate that God is all?

they claimed that Scripture cannot be added nor reduced. They are not evil, because they have a basis or evidence that Scripture does not allow it.

I disagree. They're misapprehending the texts and using them for monetary gain. That's evil.

But how can God is within us if we are a corrupted being?

Who says we're "corrupt?"

Rom.3:10-18
10. as it is written,
"There is none righteous, not even one;
11. There is none who understands,
12. All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
13. "Their throat is an open grave,
14. "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness";
15. "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16. Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17. And the path of peace have they not known."
18. "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Isa. 64:6
6. For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;

Really?! You're taking hyperbole and metaphor literalistically?

One cannot have the partial truth if he truly obey and surrender himself to Christ.

Everyone has a partial truth.

10. and you are complete in Him,

That's not what the text means.

you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

That's not what the text means.

to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

That's not what the text means.

There is a fullness in Christ, we are filled and we are complete in Him.

"Fullness" and "completeness" do not mean "we have the whole truth." Humanity is, by definition, limited in perspective.

But thanks for cherry-picking a few verses and using them incorrectly to prove my point.

What are the reason behind that we cannot have the full truth when Jesus say ‘I am the truth’ plus the promises of these Scriptures? Who will we follow?

Whenever we love, we do have the truth, but only insofar as we are able to love.

 

[sojourner]

How can you not compromise the truth in your faith if you adhere and participate different practices? Do Jesus teachings told us to participate with other practices and live with it?

Thanks

My faith isn't based in the practices.

 

[sojourner]

Denial of what? The submission and commitment? how

Thanks

Denial of yourself. You submitted yourself to God, meaning you're in denial of your own desires.

 

[sojourner]

This Scripture encourage us to praise the Lord to those who has breath, not a steps or procedure in how to breathe.

Just as the Lord's Prayer tells us exactly what to say, instead of giving us some formula we can expound upon. You're talking out both sides of your mouth here, as it's convenient for you.

How about Ps. 18:2 and Matt. 7:24 with Centering Prayer? How does it connected with centering?

The Lord is "my rock." In other words, the ground of my being. That's centering.
"Building one's house on the 'rock'" is, likewise, grounding, or centering, oneself in the Lord.

 

[Yoshua]

He doesn't "believe" it. He demonstrated it scientifically. There's a whopping big difference there. And yes, it should concern you that it's not the same as meditation practices, because what you say that your "house is left empty" when you meditate and devils can jump into you, as you badly quoted Luke 11:24-26 to support your "belief" that meditation opens you to demon possession! Those who say that based it upon the "belief" that meditation is some form of self-hypnosis.

On the contrary, the scientific research shows what mystics have said from the beginning, that you are rather more aware, less vulnerable in mind to suggestions than even "normal" consciousness. So, those who you follow are simply wrong. There is no susceptibility to suggestion going on in meditation.

Hi Windwalker,

The think nothingness of the mind other than Jesus Christ is susceptible to possession or the practice that similar with yoga by focusing on a light of a candle; focusing in one black dot or a light (in yoga posture). Actually, not only that, they also pick up words for mantra simultaneously with breathing technique. As once told me by a yoga practitioner, the transition of it from the normal state of mind to emptying as think nothing, a terrifying dream will occur. In other words, why should we dwell to a certain practices that Jesus and Paul does not told us to practice that kind of meditation technique.

Nonsense, we are talking about contemplative practices, and you know it. We're not talking about "pondering thoughts". The sort of meditation I am talking about where you empty or still the mind of discursive thoughts, is not the same as hypnosis. So it annihilates your ill-informed claims that it renders you susceptible to possession or evil influence, or even deception. You should care, if you give two hoots about truth.

Well, hypnosis is totally being a mind driven by anything he is prone to. Let us get nearer to the application. Some say that blanking of the mind is not totally blanking of the mind yet they still force to focus to a 'still' small light or dot. Now if I may ask about this for those Christian who practicing this kind of meditation, where is the renewing of our mind and the mind of Christ that the Scripture tell us?

Chapter and verse please? Please, please, please support this claim with scripture. You can't? Oh. Self-annihilating loop going on here.

But again, what we are practicing is in fact in line with scriptures, even if scripture doesn't explain the actual techniques used which it doesn't for your practices either (care to put those to the test here?). I have shown you that countless times. Please read and listen to our words, for a change.

1 Tim. 6:3
3. If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

Now, any practices or doctrine should agree with those of our Lord Jesus Christ. How? You may ask yourself these questions:
Did Jesus Christ teach us this method as our way of meditation?

1. Is this the way that the Scripture told us to have the mind of Christ as taking or adapting the procedures and technique for drawing near to God?
2. Did any Scripture told us specifically to do the method?
3. What was the Bible is saying about meditation?
4. What is the command of renewing our mind? Is it by focusing on Christ or adapting the ways of other teachings and claimed it as Christianity?

Gal 1:8
8. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Which is why meditation will help you from having a dull mind and being hoodwinked by charlatans handling snakes and casting out demons! Gird up the loins of your mind, man.

Can you cite some of your ways in meditating so we will be clearer?

For me, yes, the meditation of Scriptures, and praying can help me. I already gird up my armor of God and the sword. How about you?

Note : By the way, we don’t handle a snakes as the form to display wonders as some cult done this before.

That's does say anything about meditation practices. Where is the verse that says "don't practice sitting still and quieting the mind". This verse doesn't say that.

How you quiet your mind in the first place? What are you thinking then? How?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

First, I said I practice Centering Prayer. I was simply unfamiliar with having "And Breathe Prayer" tacked onto it as a thing. I'd never seen that before, Thomas Keating who started Centering Prayer has never called it that, that I'm aware of. No big deal.

You choose sacred word, remain in silence, focusing and going back to the sacred word. We don’t apply this Centering prayer as my prayer technique. God knows exactly what you will pray before we pray. Why follow such Centering prayer that Jesus does not even teach us to develop this kind of prayer? I believed this Centering Prayer objective is to have an intimate relationship with God. But for us, it is by obeying, repenting, submitting, trusting, and committing our life totally to God empowered by the Holy Spirit.

As far as "Integral" goes, that's not a form of meditation practice. And I'm curious if you even understand what "meditation of higher Self" actually means? Care to try to explain?

It is the union of self with a divine being as creating yourself to gain a higher consciousness by meditation. That is exactly the New Age. This divine being can be projected to Jesus Christ or a divine being.

In fact, I'd enjoy hearing you put into your own words what you believe we do in meditation practices. To be critical of them, you should first be able to demonstrate you understand what it is we are actually doing. So next post from you, explain what it looks like for us. Explain what we are doing. Considering you just asked me what we do, it seems you don't know. And therefore, you're against something you don't even know that we are doing! Too funny. Why did it take me this long to see that?

I already came to it, this is why I kept asking to avoid misconception, and our discussion will not be wasted. Initially, I have a hint based on how you use terminology, and your insights about spirituality.

Yes, mantra practice is adapted from Hinduism. So what? There are tons of things in the Bible that are practices adopted from other religions too. Big deal. Oh, I see. It violates your mythology that the Jewish and Christian traditions have nothing in common with other religions! Haha. Ok, sure. I'd suggest taking a comparative religion course at a college sometime. @Orbit could point you to some good resources to help open your thinking in this regard a little.

Yes, a very Big Deal for Christianity. Then how come that it is right for you? Did you do chanting?

On what extent did a practice from other religion should and can be adopted?

If Orbit would participate here, I’m open to that.

Sure, why not? It works. It's good then. Amen.

That is exactly like yoga.

So? Nowhere does Jesus teach you how to be you in figuring out how to live your life. You have to figure out things that work for you to reach the goals. It's not going to be the same for you as it is for others. God certainly understands that! He teaches the Goal, not the means and ways and techniques. You miss this point. I hope this helps you, even just a little.

Oh my! Wow, that is entirely not submission. I don’t think that is total surrendering and giving up to God and making Him the center. God is a jealous God, would He allow to adopt any practices that a person will to make him spiritually good. Where does the “not my will, but your will be done” applies here? These Scriptures seemed missed out and overlook already.

Matt. 16:24-26
24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25. For whosoever would save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26. For what shall a man be profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? or what shall a man give in exchange for his life?

Take a look at this example:

Matthew 5:29
29. If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Jesus sets a very high standard of metaphorical statement same as love you enemies to discipline us spiritually. Do you think adopting other’s religion meditation practices which is not Christianity will be allowed by Jesus/God as easy as eating an apple in front of your table?

Matthew 19:27
Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?"

Matthew 19:29
"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.

How many percent did a follower of Christ will commit himself to God? Is it a 50% Christianity and 50% other beliefs adopted to Christianity?

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

How does “Christ lives in me” applies to a belief/s that compromised with other beliefs?

I don’t think God wants a half baked submission here.

So you sit in prayer and recited the Lord's Prayer? Guess what that is? Drumroll................. Mantra Practice!

No. Roman Catholics did it, not me. Jesus Christ set this Prayer as the pattern, and not exactly what you will pray. And if that will be the case that your prayer must be limited only to Lord’s Prayer, how can you say what you want to pray? Jesus did prohibited vain repetition of prayer. The prayer that is effective is what comes to our heart but in accordance to His will.

It's not complicated. And prayer is not for God. It's for you. Prayer is to open you to God. It's practicing..... opening. That's what Centering Prayer is. Practicing "opening".

Getting it yet?

A child’s prayer, I think is much better than making a simple prayer into a complicated one. What will you open to God? opening a foothold? the things that is not taught by Jesus?

If a person totally surrendered and submitted his heart and mind to God, why need to opening yourself to a prayer made by men.

I personally don't think of God as "controlling me". I consider it a cooperation. I would rather flow with Spirit, and it is a choice I make. But what I'm looking for in my question from you is to describe the emotional and spiritual state of being when you experience spiritual intimacy with God. Describe what it feels like, not an "explanation". Would you do that for me?

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

How can we say God is not the controller of our lives, if we embraced this phrase ”Not my will, but yours be Done”? Control is much higher than cooperation. Control is submission, cooperation can be changed by man’s own choice.

What happens when you are not actively being religious? Do you fall into self-destructive behaviors, drinking, fighting, lying, hating, etc? Do you find the religion gives you the structures you need to keep you out of trouble?

No, I’ve experienced a 3 years without going to church and spend my life religiously. After those years, the test came in. I go back to my spiritual life worshiping God, praising and continuously walk to righteousness. I’m a person who truly committed my life, obeyed, submit, repented and trust the Lord Jesus, whatever happen in the midst of walk then, I’m still draw near to my Lord and Saviour.

I believed that once you commit and submitted your life to God as receiving Him, the Holy Spirit is the one who will help you to attain the righteousness.

My commitment to God as a follower keep me away from troubles, of course.

Out of curiosity, is the group you are with a Pentecostal group? I've known those who use chanting the name of Jesus to cast out devils. BTW, to say there is "power in the name of Jesus", actually touches on what I said above out your "prayer word"! It's the same thing! This too is what mantra practice teaches, that the words of the mantra have power. "In Jesus' name, I rebuke thee!". And so forth. The word, has power. You see?

No, I’m not Pentecostal. Yes, Pentecostal groups are widely practicing those casting out evil. The name of Jesus cannot be distorted with the word “mantra.” Jesus is the protection not mantra. How can we adopt this kind of practices which in the first place contrary with the teaching of Christ. It is the opposite.

The Use of Sound: Mantra yoga employs the use of a particular sound, phrase, or affirmation as a point of focus. The word mantra comes from man, which means “to think,” and tra, which suggests “instrumentality.” Therefore, mantra is an instrument of thought. It also has come to mean “protecting the person who receives it.” Traditionally, you can only receive a mantra from a teacher, one who knows you and your particular needs. The act of repeating your mantra is called japa, which means recitation. Just as contemplative prayer and affirmation need to be stated with purpose and feeling, a mantra meditation practice requires conscious engagement on the part of the meditator. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s Transcendental Meditation (TM) espouses the practice of mantra yoga.

Chanting, an extension of mantra yoga, is a powerful way to enter into meditation. Longer than a mantra, a chant involves both rhythm and pitch. Western traditions use chants and hymns to invoke the name of God, to inspire, and to produce a spiritual awakening. Dating back to Vedic times, Indian chanting comes out of a tradition that believes in the creative power of sound and its potential to transport us to an expanded state of awareness. The rishis, or ancient seers, taught that all of creation is a manifestation of the primordial sound Om. Reflected in an interpretation of the word universe—”one song”—Om is the seed sound of all other sounds. Chanting Sanskrit often and properly produces profound spiritual and physical effects.

Many beginners find using a mantra in their meditation very effective and relatively easy. Chanting, on the other hand, can be intimidating for some people. If you feel awkward chanting on your own, use one of the many audiotapes of chants on the market, or participate in a group meditation where a meditation teacher leads the chant and the students repeat it. Although chanting in Sanskrit can be powerful, reciting a meaningful prayer or affirmation in any language can be effective. Yogajournal.com

Do you ever feel any impression upon your heart from within you, a kind or gentle nudge, or even a kick or two. Do you ever experience God within you? Or is it all from outside of you?

It is inside, the Holy Spirit conviction. There is no gentle nudge or kick, but the Spirit speaks to my heart and mind.

Okay then, here's my answer. So, you feel this within you. Just like us. Have you ever just paused to explore that Peace of God within your heart, to sit with it without trying to analyze it, but rather to "be" within it? Yes? Guess what? That's Contemplative Practice! Congradulations. You're one of us. Now, just practice it as a discipline, opening to that Peace within, as part of your prayer.

Do you really think we are doing something "against scripture"? How can you given what I just said?

You make me laugh on your message. We may say we both had peace, the peace that I had is not for exploration. It is the fruit, the result, and not the initial thing that you will step or create for your own desire. Not my will, but yours (God) be done. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit as our helper, the Spirit function as the guide of the truth, He will not lead you to be explored. Never! We are to submit to the Spirit, and not the Spirit to submit to us.

Yes, it is against the Scripture regarding what the Holy Spirit doing in our life.

Okay, so what happens is at various time certain passages of scripture come to mind and are illuminated with a new understanding for you as part of your response to the Spirit within you? Sounds like what we've been saying? Why are you view us as sinning then, when you do the same thing?

We are not doing the same thing. Don’t assume that we both have the same principles of spirituality. Yes, the Scripture came into my mind, and it stop there. That illumination to bring to you a new understanding to respond to the Spirit is totally not the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. No new understanding will be given by the Spirit because I’m a new creation, the new has come and the old gone. If you are a born anew believers in Christ, we submit to His will. The Spirit gives us understanding with the Scriptures as we seek to His word.

Beliefs are simply stepping stones. You step upon them to help you cross the river. They are not the destination. I believe any truth that brings you to God is a stone on that path. We are all God's. How little or much we know that, is our own spiritual paths to that Realization.

This is what make us different. I don’t believe in “any truth” that brings you closer to God. What if someone say that Satanism brings him closer to God? Do you think this is truth or not? A path to realization closer to God?

There is no other than the truth that Jesus said, why you don’t believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Yes, and you've been shown at every point to be wrong. Why can you not accept you have been in error? Do you understand how this just makes you appear stubborn?

Not at all! That is your own opinion. Let us dig deeper, as you have said you are not against the Scripture. Let us see the true understanding of the Scripture.

Thanks

 

[Windwalker]

The think nothingness of the mind other than Jesus Christ is susceptible to possession or the practice that similar with yoga by focusing on a light of a candle; focusing in one black dot or a light (in yoga posture).

First, yet once again, the mind never goes blank. If it goes blank, you are doing something wrong. The term the Buddhist uses for that is "sinking mind". It's when there are no thoughts, but there is also "nobody home". NEVER is that supposed to happen. That is a problem if it does. You are supposed to still the thoughts, but increase your awareness so are fully, consciously present, not absent! So you are factually wrong on the first point.

Secondly, you have to prove that meditation makes you susceptible to possession. You can't just say that, making it up out of thin air. What is your basis for that fabricated claim? Why does it do that? Why do you say that? What is your justification? Because you heard it from some preacher dude? That's not a justification.

Actually, not only that, they also pick up words for mantra simultaneously with breathing technique. As once told me by a yoga practitioner, the transition of it from the normal state of mind to emptying as think nothing, a terrifying dream will occur.

Source please? And can you elaborate on this "terrifying dream"? Be specific. Who said this, and what exactly did he claim? And also what does they "Also pick up words for mantra simultaneously with breathing technique," mean? This doesn't exactly make sense to me? Are talking about erupting into speaking in tongues, like the Apostles did?

In other words, why should we dwell to a certain practices that Jesus and Paul does not told us to practice that kind of meditation technique.

Why should you do anything that works for you that isn't spelled out explicitly in scripture. Why should you be typing on the Internet? Find that one in scripture!

Well, hypnosis is totally being a mind driven by anything he is prone to. Let us get nearer to the application. Some say that blanking of the mind is not totally blanking of the mind yet they still force to focus to a 'still' small light or dot.

There is no "blanking of the mind". Period. You are wrong. This is false, with the exception of a problem that you are supposed to avoid and correct which I mentioned that is called sinking mind. You never "blank out" in meditation. This is false.

Now if I may ask about this for those Christian who practicing this kind of meditation, where is the renewing of our mind and the mind of Christ that the Scripture tell us?

By allowing the Light of God to illuminate your mind through the Holy Spirit. That's how.

Can you cite some of your ways in meditating so we will be clearer?

You mean to say you don't know what I practice? Then why are we are over 40 pages of discussion of you disputing my practices?

I certainly can speak of some of the things if your curious. But bear in mind these "techniques" are simply tools, or guidelines. It really does have to come down to the individual to do what works for them. It's the same as living out your life in the world. There is no "Book of Bob" that tells you everything you have to do to live your life. You're expected to discover that yourself!

 

[Yoshua]

Do you not read my posts, or simply forget what you've read? I went into this many times previously. No, I am not a New Age person, by any means. In fact I demonstrated how what you believe is more consistent with them than my views. And again, since when does someone in "New Age" saying something that others teach make that teaching wrong?

New Age is characteristically defined as co opting other beliefs, and understanding them only on the highest, most shallow possible levels, not really getting what they are saying. It becomes a sort of pseudo-spiritual jargon, a lingo that sounds spiritual and it's really all just fluff and feel-good sugary sweet stuff. Nothing I say is without considerable depth to it. It means nothing to me if "New Age" simply parrots the words without understanding. Plenty of Christians simply parrot words too, quoting scriptures left and right without any depth of understanding whatsoever. "Christianese" is what they call it.

Oh really! The term “Higher Self” and your insights to spirituality is the same as the New Age. How about your Ken Wilbur (Integral) who tagged as a New Ager.

Wikipedia may simply define and show you why?

Higher selfis a term associated with multiple belief systems, but its basic premise describes an eternal, omnipotent, conscious, and intelligentbeing, who is one's real self.Blavatskyformally defined the higher self as "Atmathe inseparable ray of the Universe and one self. It is the God above, more than within, us". Each and every individual has a Higher self.[1]

Concept
The Higher Self is generally regarded as a form of being only to be recognized in a union with a divine source. In recent years the New Age faith has encouraged the idea of the Higher Self in contemporary culture, though the notion of the Higher Self has been interpreted throughout numerous historical spiritual faiths. Some denominations believe that the higher self is a part of an individual's metaphysical identity, while others teach that the higher self is essentially our tie to the heavens. Similar to the notion of the soul, the higher self can be defined by many different sects; while also being a topic of interest in the scientific and philosophical fields.

Religious views
Christian:In the Christian Interpretation, the Bible teaches that all beings contain a fragment of the Holy Spirit that ties them to the higher self, or God.The Holy Spiritis widely discussed by the church, but the idea of the individual higher consciousness is not taught as frequently. The church preaches that the soul is what connects us to God and that we must honor and keep our souls pure by following the morals and ethics of the bible.[2]Jesus said, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matthew 26:41); this echoed in other parts of the New Testament, especially Paul. A central tenet of Christianity is that the body is still under the bondage of sin and is therefore imperfect, though that will be rectified on Judgement Day, but true believers are "born again," which allows them to battle against the still-corrupt parts of themselves.

Hinduism:In Hinduism, the higher self is one and the same with theJivaor individual self. With this perspective, the Hindu faith generally teaches that the higher self, orAtmanis not an object possessed by an individual, rather the self is the subject which perceives. In his book,The Higher Self, Deepak Chopra utilizes the views of the Hindi denomination to support his claims concerning the divine force that is acquired with the awareness of the self. Hinduism teaches that through the examination of self-knowledge, or “atma jnana,” one can attain salvation by comprehending the true self.[3]

New Age:Most New Age literature defines the Higher self as an extension of the self to a more advanced and incorporeal realm. This Higher Self is essentially an extension of the worldly self. With this perspective, New Age text teaches that in exercising your relationship with the higher self, you will gain the ability to manifest your desired future before you. In other words, the self creates its own reality when in union with the Higher Self.[4]

Reception (from Wikipedia-New Age)

Wilber has been categorized as New Age due to his emphasis on a transpersonal view[37] and, more recently, as a philosopher.[38] Publishers Weekly has called him "the Hegel of Eastern spirituality."[39]

Wilber is credited with broadening the appeal of a "perennial philosophy" to a much wider audience. Cultural figures as varied as Bill Clinton,[40] Al Gore, Deepak Chopra, and musician Billy Corgan have mentioned his influence.[41] However, Wilber's approach has been criticized as excessively categorizing and objectifying, masculinist,[42][43] commercializing spirituality,[44] and denigrating of emotion.[45] Numerous critics cite problems with Wilber's interpretations and inaccurate citations of his wide ranging sources, as well as stylistic issues with gratuitous repetition, excessive book length, and hyperbole.[46]

Steve McIntosh praises Wilber's work but also argues that Wilber fails to distinguish 'philosophy' from his own Vedantic and Buddhist religion.[47] Christopher Bache is complimentary of some aspects of Wilber's work, but calls Wilber's writing style glib and superior and suggests that Wilber tends to overlook the more complicated aspects of spiritual purification and past-life interpretation.[48]

Jennifer Gidley compared Rudolf Steiner's educational approach with Wilber's Integral Operating System,[49] noting the conceptual breadth of Wilber's narrative in transcending both scientism and epistemological isolationism. She also noted the limitations of Wilber’s project, such as his undervaluing of Gebser's text and the omission of Steiner.[50]

Psychiatrist Stanislav Grof has praised Wilber's knowledge and work in the highest terms;[51] however, Grof has criticized the omission of the pre- and peri-natal domains from Wilber's spectrum of consciousness, and Wilber's neglect of the psychological importance of biological birth and death.[52] Grof has described Wilber's writings as having an "often aggressive polemical style that includes strongly worded ad personam attacks and is not conducive to personal dialogue."[53] Wilber's response is that the world religious traditions do not attest to the importance that Grof assigns to the perinatal.[54]

And you are treating the NT as if it were the OT.

No. The New Testament is the New Covenant; the new covenant of grace and love of God to save the sins of many. The Old Testament is Law while the New testament is Grace. We are not bound by the law, but by grace. Why? Did submission and commitment to God means ‘law’ for you?

Thanks

 

[Windwalker]

Ken Wilber is most definitely NOT New Age! That's ridiculous. Anyone who categorizes him that way is highly ignorant.

As I said before, New Age likes to seize upon different sources and use them only in the most superficial, shallow ways. Wilber speaks of transpersonal psychology, and the New Ager's like to glom on to certain things he says, but they truly lack an understand of what he teaches, just as they do Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and so forth, even though they latch onto bits of them too.

 

[sojourner]

The think nothingness of the mind other than Jesus Christ is susceptible to possession

You keep making this statement, although you have yet to provide one single bit of proof in support of the truthfulness of it.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, a very Big Deal for Christianity. Then how come that it is right for you? Did you do chanting?

On what extent did a practice from other religion should and can be adopted?

Sharing the Eucharist -- which is, BTW, the central act of the church at worship -- is derived directly from the Roman Pagan custom of the symposium. And no, it wasn't "adopted by the later, false, Catholic Church." It was they type of meal Jesus shared with his disciples as laid out in the gospels, and it's the same type of meal the very first Christians practiced.

 

[lovemuffin]

Did Jesus told us that the kingdom is inside us? How come? What is the basis?

Luke 17:21. The KJV got it right when they translated the Greek "entos" as within. New translations added "among" you to fit theologically, but the word means "inside" you, as it is the word use exactly as it is used when Jesus says make clean the "inside" (entos) of the cup first. Read more explanation of it here: http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol12No2/HV12N2Ramelli.pdf

To add to this, the text is:

ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστιν.
The kingdom of God is within you.

As Windwalker says, the adverb used is ἐντος. It's an adverbial form of the simpler preposition ἐν, which means "in" in the sense of something that is inside of something else, speaking in terms of location in space. So for example:

Πατερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοις οὐρανοις
Our Father, who is in the heavens

The ἐν is the preposition "in".

To give even more context to ἐν we might note it's distinct from ἐις, which indicates movement "in to". So if I wanted to say I was in the room, I would use ἐν. If I want to say I was going into the room, I would use ἐις. So there's no doubt that the root ἐν deals with "in" in the sense of "inside". As an extension of that root preposition, ἐντος means "within" quite literally. This form of the preposition is rare in the N.T., only elsewhere being used in Matthew 23:26 which Windwalker also mentioned:

καθάρισον πρῶτον τὸ ἐντὸς τοῦ ποτηρίου
Cleanse first the inside of the cup

You can see the etymology and usages of εντος outside of the N.T. by comparing the lectionaries available here:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=e)nto/s&la=greek#lexicon (click on the links for LSJ or Middle Liddell in particular, cf. in particular the adverb form)

One further point worth making from the lexicon is that ἐντος is the opposite of ἐκτος. That is, the prefix ἐκ means "out" and is the opposite of ἐν, so that ἐκτος means "without" or "outside". The parallelism between the terms helps clarify that the primary meaning of ἐντος is certainly "within", rather than "among" in the sense of "in the company of". Additionally, there is at least one parallel usage in Thucydides where ἐντος is used to refer to the inside of the body specifically.

 

[lovemuffin]

Hi wellnamed,

We filtered the meditation down to the Centering and Breathe Prayer, if I may add the Labyrinth. Did Ignatius, or the early church Fathers, do this kind of prayers? How does this kind of prayer reconcile with the Scripture/Jesus teachings about prayer?

Thanks

FWIW I have in mind to try to present to you some reasonably detailed scriptural defense of centering prayer but I have to find the time to work on it

As to the question of whether or not early church fathers engaged in similar forms of prayer, I'm not sure if we have very detailed theoretical works on prayer from the earliest church fathers, although I haven't made a review of their work that is complete enough to answer the question. The earliest detailed descriptions of prayer which are similar to centering prayer which I'm familiar with originate in desert monasticism in the 4th century.

However, in Ignatius in particular, and I made this argument before, his usage of the term Θεοφορος (God-bearing) to describe himself certainly is intended to indicate a mystical and experiential form of Christianity, as the entire history of similar titles in eastern Christianity makes clear. There is also, as I cited before, his references to the "inspiration" he has received, as in the epistle to the Trallians:

"God has granted me many an inspiration, but I keep my limits, lest boasting should be my undoing... Am I incapable of writing to you of heavenly things? No, indeed; but I am afraid to harm you, seeing you are mere babes. You must forgive me, but the chances are you could not accept what I have to say and would choke yourselves."​

The phrase "heavenly things" is an allusion to John 3:12 and is fairly widely used to refer to visions and other mystical experiences by early Christians, as is obvious here also by the use of the word "inspiration". Additionally, I'd repeat again a small part of his epistle to the Philadelphians:

"When I heard some people saying, “If I don’t find it in the original documents, I don’t believe it in the gospel,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.” To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents."
​

This follows a section in which he's defending a teaching that he gave by inspiration of the Spirit, which as you can see here, he claims to be authoritative even if not explicitly contained in the text of the scriptures. In other words, he's offering a defense of the idea of apostolic authority and the living authority of the church over something like Sola Scriptura. To the extent that one of the criticisms of centering prayer offered is that it's not explicitly scriptural, Ignatius would certainly not have considered that persuasive. And as far as centering prayer as a technique meant to encourage a more experiential and mystical awareness of the presence of God, Ignatius makes clear that he considers such to be part of a Christian life, even if he doesn't outline his practice very specifically in his epistles, in the way later Christians did.