What is energy?

[Thief]

I think your idea is similar yes. Intuition from the same source, but the description can only ever try and model the real, and in any event, it is also limited by our individual present understanding of the dynamics involved. As the energy of water waves is seen to travel, and yet the water does not, the underlying medium of space (zpe) does not travel, but EM wave energy travels at the speed of light.

Let me jump this to ask.....
Can anything move faster than light?
I hope to hear ....yeah.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Let me jump this to ask.....
Can anything move faster than light?
I hope to hear ....yeah.

The zpe field is omnipresent, how long does it take to go anywhere? No time at all....how fast is that? Infinitely!

For teleportation and advanced space propulsion of material things, manipulating the omnipresent zpe field may allow FTL travel. It may involve, from an outside observer's pov,, a dematerialization at the point of departure, followed by a rematerialization at the destination.

However for advanced spiritual entities, one would expect the omnipresent field/medium would allow FTL to instantaneous.travel.... mho. One would also expect that advanced spiritual entities could materialize any form they wanted if it was appropriate to their mission....wherever, whenever. Other than missions, one would expect advanced spiritual entities would mostly rest in the timeless peace of the eternal omnipresence of God/Source/Etc.....

 

[Thief]

The zpe field is omnipresent, how long does it take to go anywhere? No time at all....how fast is that? Infinitely!

For teleportation and advanced space propulsion of material things, manipulating the omnipresent zpe field may allow FTL travel. It may involve, from an outside observer's pov,, a dematerialization at the point of departure, followed by a rematerialization at the destination.

However for advanced spiritual entities, one would expect the omnipresent field/medium would allow FTL to instantaneous.travel.... mho. One would also expect that advanced spiritual entities could materialize any form they wanted if it was appropriate to their mission....wherever, whenever. Other than missions, one would expect advanced spiritual entities would mostly rest in the timeless peace of the eternal omnipresence of God/Source/Etc.....

Given what I was taught about gravity and motion....
It would take a sustained 44g's to leave the solar system.
We humans can't do that.
We would not be able to endure the alleged increase of mass.
(as velocity increases so too the mass)
and the prolonged travel at the speed of light would need centuries from here to there.

So I agree....if we are indeed speaking the same notion.....
To travel the stars, we do so in spirit....by the will of mind and heart.

 

[`mud]

Somewhere out there about a dozen quadrillion patchs of space away is a photon moving in response to the photon that I bumped just now....here....and there.
All the 'photonic' particles that exist, are directly coupled by the width of an infinitly sided photon to all the adjascent photons and then and again and again forever and ever.
As fast as light, photon to photon to photon. What's the distance across a photon ?
Maybe that's the gods we sense.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

Somewhere out there about a dozen quadrillion patchs of space away is a photon moving in response to the photon that I bumped just now....here....and there.
All the 'photonic' particles that exist, are directly coupled by the width of an infinitly sided photon to all the adjascent photons and then and again and again forever and ever.
As fast as light, photon to photon to photon. What's the distance across a photon ?
Maybe that's the gods we sense.
~
'mud

I suspect instead....the dark energy is God....wearing a cloak!

 

[`mud]

And in the preponderance of infinity in all directions, are we !
~
'mud

 

[gnostic]

I suspect instead....the dark energy is God....wearing a cloak!

It would be a contradiction since god is supposed to be "light".

 

[shawn001]

and light has a speed limit.

 

[Thief]

It would be a contradiction since god is supposed to be "light".

Nay.
The Creator is not His creation.
Spirit first.

I might say instead....the creation is a REFLECTION of it's Creator.

 

[Thief]

and light has a speed limit.

I never have found the source of that idea.
Have you?

I don't believe in the limit.
The constant is not an indication of an absolute.

and if it were....we will never leave this place.
never to see first hand the nearest reaches, and not at all the furthest extent.

 

[shawn001]

I never have found the source of that idea.
Have you?

I don't believe in the limit.
The constant is not an indication of an absolute.

and if it were....we will never leave this place.
never to see first hand the nearest reaches, and not at all the furthest extent.

"I never have found the source of that idea."
Have you?

Its complex and there is a lot of information on the internet about it.

But, James Clerk Maxwell and Einstein played important roles in understanding it better.

 

[shawn001]

By the way there could be loopholes in being able to travel long distances without going the speed of light people are working on.

"I don't believe in the limit.
The constant is not an indication of an absolute."

Belief has nothing of course to do with it and if you find a way to go faster, you would be very famous.

"and if it were....we will never leave this place.
never to see first hand the nearest reaches, and not at all the furthest extent."

In has major implications in us being able to study the universe.

"
End of Cosmology – 3 Trillion Years from Now
The Universe acts as a natural time machine. Since light moves at the speed of, well, light, we can look at distant objects and see them how they looked in the past. Look to the very ends of the visible Universe, and you see light that was emitted billions of years ago, shortly after the Big Bang.

It’s handy, but there’s a problem. That mysterious dark energy force, which is accelerating the expansion of the Universe is making the most distant galaxies move faster and faster away from us. Eventually, they will cross an event horizon and appear to be moving away from us faster than the speed of light. At this point, any light emitted by the galaxy will cease to reach us. Any galaxy that crosses this horizon will fade away from view, until its last photon reaches us. All galaxies will disappear from view forever.

According to a new research paper by Lawrence M. Krauss and Robert J. Scherrer, future astronomers living 3 trillion years from now will only see our own galaxy when they look into the night sky.

This accelerating expansion has another consequence as well. The cosmic microwave background radiation, which astronomers used to discover evidence of the Big Bang will have faded away too. Not only that, but the abundance of chemicals, which precisely match the amounts theorized for the Big Bang will be hidden by subsequent generations of stars."

The End of Everything

So matter can't go faster then light but space itself can, which is dragging the galaxies along with it. This is what we are observing right now.

 

[Thief]

"I never have found the source of that idea."
Have you?

Its complex and there is a lot of information on the internet about it.

But, James Clerk Maxwell and Einstein played important roles in understanding it better.

l feel certain the speed of light was used as a constant for cause that most other things are not.
When creating a weigh scale the weight of measure needs to be really good.
Something that is the same every time you place it as standard.

using 'C' as a multiplier was a bold move.
No one could really be sure how much energy is contained in a substance.
Chemical reactions of everyday use are not the same notation.

What happens really?....when mass is transformed to energy....
and how was Albert sure the measure of constant SQUARED could be correct?

He had no means to prove his math.
It was done decades later by others.

How did he know?

and I don't recall his pronouncement of a limit.
If the limit is there.....we are trapped by our flesh to the immediate locale.

 

[Thief]

btw...not knowing how many 'end of all things' documentaries I've seen....

I don't believe in time.....it's not a force or substance.
It is only a means of calculation.....a factor in an equation.

I do think, once we are free of the substance of life.....
we can then come and go as we please.
There is no limit to thought.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Oh I understand alright,,.I just don't understand why you say they are not waves

all physical systems are waves

Hm....

But that still leaves the so called vacuum in which these subatomic particles manifest

Not just so-called vacuum, but so-called particles.

.....of what do you think it is composed?

What are quantum vacuums composed of? Effects. Or mathematics. On the one hand, they're nothing but a requirement of the uncertainty principle. On the other, we have the relatively early and quite "physical" Casimir effect. In yet another sense, the whole of particle physics is a welding of the formalisms of QM with those of classical electrodynamics and special relativity (and more, e.g., QCD). However, the standard/orthodox interpretation of QM is that the systems described are mathematical entities and that we can only speak of experimental outcomes. QED, where most of the work on quantum vacuums has been and is done, is like QFT and particle physics in general: even more removed from the physical into the mathematical realm. Field theory is arguably a mathematical theory. In order to make QM relativistic, we had to exchange waves for fields (it has to do with the mathematical structure of QM and the wavefunction). While this provides an excellent formalism, we're now speaking of things like photons as equivalent to gravity (or gavitons) and speaking of gravity of having spin. On yet another level, we can circle around back to simplicity and state (accurately) that a quantum vacuum is simply what it is also called: the ground state, or the lowest state of that can be reached given some system. As again the uncertainty principle requires fluctuations here, and as further such states differ not just among different systems but with the same system (sort of), we're just finding the minima of functions.

You do understand what I am asking yes?

I'm not sure.

 

[shawn001]

l feel certain the speed of light was used as a constant for cause that most other things are not.
When creating a weigh scale the weight of measure needs to be really good.
Something that is the same every time you place it as standard.

using 'C' as a multiplier was a bold move.
No one could really be sure how much energy is contained in a substance.
Chemical reactions of everyday use are not the same notation.

What happens really?....when mass is transformed to energy....
and how was Albert sure the measure of constant SQUARED could be correct?

He had no means to prove his math.
It was done decades later by others.

How did he know?

and I don't recall his pronouncement of a limit.
If the limit is there.....we are trapped by our flesh to the immediate locale.

Can You Go the Speed of Light?

"Einstein's classic thought experiment involves sitting on a train travelling at the speed of light. If you hold a mirror in front of your face, will you see your reflection in a mirror? How could light from your face reach the mirror if the mirror is travelling away from you? But it would be a pretty spooky train if you couldn't see your reflection so Einstein felt this solution wasn't realistic. On the other hand if you could see your reflection, it would mean light was travelling at the speed of light inside the train. But that meant the same light observed from outside the train would be going twice the speed of light. This again seems inconsistent. So Einstein resolved that you must see your reflection but that light must travel at the same speed inside and outside the train. The only way this is possible is if space and time are perceived differently by observers inside and outside the train.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hm....

Not just so-called vacuum, but so-called particles.

What are quantum vacuums composed of? Effects. Or mathematics. On the one hand, they're nothing but a requirement of the uncertainty principle. On the other, we have the relatively early and quite "physical" Casimir effect. In yet another sense, the whole of particle physics is a welding of the formalisms of QM with those of classical electrodynamics and special relativity (and more, e.g., QCD). However, the standard/orthodox interpretation of QM is that the systems described are mathematical entities and that we can only speak of experimental outcomes. QED, where most of the work on quantum vacuums has been and is done, is like QFT and particle physics in general: even more removed from the physical into the mathematical realm. Field theory is arguably a mathematical theory. In order to make QM relativistic, we had to exchange waves for fields (it has to do with the mathematical structure of QM and the wavefunction). While this provides an excellent formalism, we're now speaking of things like photons as equivalent to gravity (or gavitons) and speaking of gravity of having spin. On yet another level, we can circle around back to simplicity and state (accurately) that a quantum vacuum is simply what it is also called: the ground state, or the lowest state of that can be reached given some system. As again the uncertainty principle requires fluctuations here, and as further such states differ not just among different systems but with the same system (sort of), we're just finding the minima of functions.

I'm not sure.

Re Hm... I did not express that clearly....you said..."although of course by "waves" they mean something you don't understand.", and in return I said...."Oh I understand alright,,.I just don't understand why you say they are not waves" and should have finished with "as I understand them". Fyi, I've worked with radio waves all of my working life (over now/retired)...mainly in C and X Band Satellite comms, remote sensing systems, and radar.. You otoh apparently come from the theoretical side, and while I admire the theoretical basis to it all, the practical manifestation of new technologies based on the theory is the goal. Without a practical application of theory, it remains an unfinished work...

So you explain that quantum vacuum is composed of effects, or mathematics....the ground state, and briefly mention that there is a "physical" Casimir effect as though that's where the science is at. I posted the material by Dr Puthoff et al on leading edge research and possible applications to make the point that there is more to it than you seem to be aware. In your previous response to me, unless I misread you, you seem to be derisive about my attempts to discuss zpe wrt to frequencies and energy density. So I post the following as quite typical of zpe description from which I get my understanding.

Because it exists in a vacuum, zero point radiation is homogeneous and isotropic as well as ubiquitous. In addition, since zero point radiation is also invariant with respect to Lorentz transformation, the zero point radiation spectrum has the characteristic that the intensity of the radiation at any frequency is proportional to the cube of that frequency. Consequently, the intensity of the radiation increases without limit as the frequency increases resulting in an infinite energy density for the radiation spectrum. With the introduction of the zero point radiation into the classical electron theory, a vacuum at a temperature of absolute zero is no longer considered empty of all electromagnetic fields. The special characteristics of the zero point radiation which are that it has a virtually infinite energy density and that it is ubiquitous (even present in outer space).

So do you have a similar understanding?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Fyi, I've worked with radio waves all of my working life

I don't doubt that. However, you worked within a framework that, while useful, we know to be completely flawed.

You otoh apparently come from the theoretical side

I do this, but I also use technology designed to manipulate quantum systems for experimentation/measurement/etc.

the practical manifestation of new technologies based on the theory is the goal.

And the practical aspect consists of everything from NMR technology to STEM technologies, which can do everything form very precise manipulations with quantum systems to applications in nanoscience and medical imaging.

Without a practical application of theory, it remains an unfinished work...

Without my account being true, the modern world wouldn't exist.

So you explain that quantum vacuum is composed of effects, or mathematics....the ground state, and briefly mention that there is a "physical" Casimir effect as though that's where the science is at.

I would never say that, because I don't make the mistake of viewing "science" as some unified, monolithic entity. Also, it's a complete misconstrual of what I said, The descriptions I gave were not the sum total of the ways to approach quantum vacuums, but rather a number of different and not necessarily compatible ways of approaching them.

you seem to be derisive about my attempts to discuss zpe wrt to frequencies and energy density.

If you mean do I think you have no idea what you are talking about then yes that would be true (well, when it comes to this topic; no doubt there are plenty of topics you are well-versed in or an expert int).

So I post the following as quite typical of zpe description from which I get my understanding.

Does your understanding include virtual particles? Because it must.

So do you have a similar understanding?

You are asking me to say whether or not I share your understanding of something somebody else wrote, which I can't possibly know as I do not know how you understand what you have quoted.

 

[Thief]

Can You Go the Speed of Light?

"Einstein's classic thought experiment involves sitting on a train travelling at the speed of light. If you hold a mirror in front of your face, will you see your reflection in a mirror? How could light from your face reach the mirror if the mirror is travelling away from you? But it would be a pretty spooky train if you couldn't see your reflection so Einstein felt this solution wasn't realistic. On the other hand if you could see your reflection, it would mean light was travelling at the speed of light inside the train. But that meant the same light observed from outside the train would be going twice the speed of light. This again seems inconsistent. So Einstein resolved that you must see your reflection but that light must travel at the same speed inside and outside the train. The only way this is possible is if space and time are perceived differently by observers inside and outside the train.

It looks like a discussion of the Doppler effect on a faster scale.
I've been down this discussion a lot....

Let's say for the moment....light has that speed and cannot do otherwise.

So, moving away from an object as the object moves in the opposite direction....
That would be twice the speed of light.
And...moving toward an object in collision path would also be twice the speed of light.

And some observations made indicate the universe is moving faster than the speed of light.

Light has a fixed quality, but the direction (motion) is relative.

Still, that need not apply to an item not of substance.
I suspect our spirits can move by thought.
We can't do so yet.....but it's pending.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Does your understanding include virtual particles? Because it must.

You are asking me to say whether or not I share your understanding of something somebody else wrote, which I can't possibly know as I do not know how you understand what you have quoted.

Yes it does...

Forget about my understanding, what do you think of it....does the author understand subject, a zpe that is omnipresent and has an EM radiation frequency spectrum of practically infinite density?