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What is God's definition of sin?
- Thread starter Naples
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Beyondo
Active Member
And yet god commanded Moses to kill occupants of the cities of interest, inclusive of women and children. God also commanded that Moses kill 20,000 Hebrews for fraternizing with the neighbors. It would appear that such high noble ideas of love for thy neighbor is subjective. But the real problem with Yahwehnian law is the "Love and obey god above all." This subordinates all other rules and so killing your neighbor can be justified...
reach:Friend , isn't it about time you came out of OT living and accept that we have had new rules and laws for the past 2000 years ?And yet god commanded Moses to kill occupants of the cities of interest, inclusive of women and children. God also commanded that Moses kill 20,000 Hebrews for fraternizing with the neighbors. It would appear that such high noble ideas of love for thy neighbor is subjective. But the real problem with Yahwehnian law is the "Love and obey god above all." This subordinates all other rules and so killing your neighbor can be justified...
We have moved on ! :yes:
Beyondo
Active Member
But:
So what rules changed? As I said before the problem with Yahwehnian law is: "Love and obey god above all." That rule entitles those who claim authority to justify what ever god has commanded. The Catholic church and protestant churches used it to justify burning witches, removing children from aboriginal families, the justification of slavery. Remember Jesus never condemned slavery which has been a institution for the better part of the last 2000 years!
Simply put, such belief that the Ten commandments and/or Jesus' teachings mold modern morality is completely wrong. Modern secular humanitarianism is based on ideas of equality, checks and balances of power, privacy and the empathy of ones conscience. As such the highest commandment from "Beyondo" is Confucius' "Golden rule":
“Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself.”
Let god find his own love from his deeds just like everyone else...:yes:
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It's not God's Commandments that are wrong but the people who misinterpret or reject them .
McBell
Admiral Obvious
This is nothing more than your belief.
Apollonius
Member
Sin is derived from the Greek word 'hamartia' which has the meaning of 'missing the mark' which, when one considers that 'torah' means 'to aim or to shoot' the term makes sense. In ancient Persia, as in ancient Bharat (India) kings and princes were expected to string and accurately shoot the bow, .. in fact, ancient Persian king, Darius is depicted with bow in hand (as are the gods of Persia and other ancient cities). One need only read the ancient scriptures of India, such as the Mahabharata, to realize the importance laid upon the art of properly shooting the bow among royalty, and kings were accustomed to employing brahmins for the training of young princes in archery as a means to instill moral teachings as well as to teach accuracy in shooting the bow. In like manner, righteous kings were seen as being masters of the bow in that their aim was steady in terms of upholding the laws by which they governed their people.
Beyondo
Active Member
Misinterpret the Ten Commandments? Let's take one of the ten commandments, say the tenth one:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his asz, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's. (Exodus 20:17)
This is a sin punishable by death, even under Jesus' rules if you don't repent this sin. Now what is this sin of the tenth commandment? Its about what a person thinks inside their head, a desire, not an action. Now such desire may lead to action but not necessarily a criminal one; For instance because you covet you neighbors asz it leads you to go out and get one or you may go to the gym and workout! LOL But the point here is god is the "mind police", its not just what you do its what you think. There is no privacy, or civil rights under a rule like the tenth commandment.
Imagine Jesus coming down from heaven ruling here on earth and as you stroll in a park you think to yourself: "wow I really like my friend's sofa." You then hear a siren and you're picked up for violating the tenth commandment. Now Jesus is a nice guy and all you have to do is beg for forgiveness and say you won't do it again. Of course Jesus doesn't say how many repeat offenses you can commit before you get executed. LOL
The point is that the bible doesn't address things like civil rights or checks and balances of power, its really a barbaric set of rules.:tribal:
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The point is that our thoughts can lead us to act - be they good or bad . Why do you think our prisons are overflowing with criminals who think they can take what does not belong to them . Likewise those who can not control their emotions .
The commandments are for the purpose of protecting the weak and innocent in society from being molested, attacked and taken advantage of ,not to mention to have respect toward God.
If we all took note of them the world would be a much better place. :yes:
The commandments are for the purpose of protecting the weak and innocent in society from being molested, attacked and taken advantage of ,not to mention to have respect toward God.
If we all took note of them the world would be a much better place. :yes:
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Nobody knows if such a thing exists. We only have various peoples' defintions of sin.
Beyondo
Active Member
Really? Let's see:
- "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
- "You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
- "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
- "Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy"
So the first 4 are just about god.
5. "Honor your father and your mother..."
6. "Do not murder"
7. "Do not commit adultery."
In Moses' time adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife.
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
10. "Do not covet your neighbor's property"
The next 6 are about people but 5 and 10 doesn't serve the purpose of protecting the weak and innocent in society from being molested, attacked and taken advantage of, as you say. 6, 7, 8, 9 have some merit but other cultures have similar ideas and addressed those issues far better. In fact according to the Tulmud 8 has to do with kidnapping not stealing property!
The point here is the world is far better off taking note of Conficius (who lived 500 years before Jesus) than the ten commandments.:yes:
And what is the point of going into even more detail invented by man if we can't keep the few given by God ???
We are obviously talking about religions and cultures other than those given to Israel and they don't interest me in the least. The world is full of human ideas and also very confused and deceived - as our Creator tells us.
Beyondo
Active Member
Read Confucius, he out does Yahweh and Jesus by leaps and bounds when it comes to individual and social morals. The bible is conveying a false message when it says the ideas of other cultures are to confuse and deceive you. What the bible teaches by covering 5,000 years of a cultures history is no match to what Confucius lived and taught in his life time.
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
I have been thinking (and it really hurt). People are looking at this all backwards. Instead of focusing on sin why not focus on virtue (or rather reason in practice). When you focus on sin, you only give it unnecessary power. If you focused on practicing reason and general righteousness, you would give it the power instead of sin. No one can seem to define sin with any sense of accuracy anyway, but you can define reason. (sensible thought or judgment) It seems obvious to me that if everyone spent all the energy they spend on trying to decide if something is a sin or not, on being sensible in the judgments they make and the thoughts they entertain, the world would be more or less sin free because making sensible decisions based on reason would in fact honor the qualities that Divine law is trying to instill.
Divine law would be theocratic or God ruled. Breaking men's laws are called a crime.
Breaking divine law as recorded in Scripture is what is called not crime but sin.
Men's laws should be in harmony with God's laws.
Jesus made sensible judgments and decisions based on reason.
Jesus reasoned on Scripture and with that reasoning he based his teachings.
What can be improved about Jesus Sermon on the Mount?
Breaking divine law as recorded in Scripture is what is called not crime but sin.
Men's laws should be in harmony with God's laws.
Jesus made sensible judgments and decisions based on reason.
Jesus reasoned on Scripture and with that reasoning he based his teachings.
What can be improved about Jesus Sermon on the Mount?
What point is there into going into detail about the Constitution of the U.S.?
The Constitution of the Mosaic Law was designed to lead people to the Messiah and it showed beyond doubt no one imperfect could keep it.
Jesus addressed religious human ideas as men's traditions and customs as confused and deceitful.- Mark 7:7,13; Matt 15:9; 23:13-38.
This does not make Scripture wrong but those not applying it as wrong.
John 8:44; 2Tim3:16,17.
I live in the UK friend and can not comment on US policies.
But basically are we not saying the same thing - that no natural human (imperfect) can please God ? Rom.8v7.
We all have to repent and be converted ! :bow:
Was in the UK once for 15 days.....Loved every moment of it.
Yes repent/ converted. And isn't Romans chapter 8 showing us how the mind wins out the spiritual battle? To 'walk' not after the [imperfect] flesh......
:help:
Also glad that we agree on scripture. Overcoming sin (the breaking of God's Commandments) is God's Will for man. It was disobedience that got mankind into trouble to begin with. God's Grace grants us a personal opportunity to put that right in our own life. :yes:
Glad you enjoyed it here - we are rather quaint aren't we ?
Also glad that we agree on scripture. Overcoming sin (the breaking of God's Commandments) is God's Will for man. It was disobedience that got mankind into trouble to begin with. God's Grace grants us a personal opportunity to put that right in our own life. :yes: