sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
To put it generically, anything not done in love is sin.
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What is God's definition of sin?
- Thread starter Naples
- Start date
This is not what scripture says !!!
There is quite a big difference between OUR understanding of 'human love' and observing the Commandments which are an expression of 'GOD's LOVE'.
Applying our own meaning to scripture is a fatal mistake .:yes:
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
So Beta, it is your understanding that no one can truly understand Divine love. Why?
DoctorAnswerMan
Resident Answer Man
The definition of sin really is as simple as this: missing or falling short of the target.
Friend , SW post did not mention 'divine ' love.
I did draw attention to the difference between divine and human.
Now this is more like it - not forgetting that GOD sets the target and not man.
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
Sorry then it is your understanding that no one can understand 'GOD's LOVE'? Why?
I did not say nobody understood it - I said there was a difference.
But since you ask - there is a scripture that says GOD's things are only understood by the spirit of God, not by a natural man.
Why is that so ? Because that is how GOD set it up.Nobody can get eternal life/immortality except by the Spirit of God and He gives it to those who obey Him. This is what scripture says it is not my personal opinion. Would you like me to quote chapter and verse ?
Luminakisharblaze
Doyamo Luminachi
Perhaps, but scripture has been tainted by man. There is much that was added or changed in the name of man's quest to control. I personal understand Divine love very well. And yes the difference is that human love is conditional. Divine love is not. It does not punish because Divinity knows all of the whys. There is no such thing as a Divine law stating that if you do not believe one doctrine you will lose your soul. that is one of the many things man changed. This is not my opinion, but what I know because I have stood in the presence of the Divine many times and I KNOW what the truth is because I was informed by Divinity personally.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Au contraire Pierre!
Matthew 22 KJV
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Yes true the two great Commandments mention love and i have not denied the importance of love. But again it comes down to what kind of love we exhibit.The two Comandments given above are but a very rough summary of other more detailed definitions and descriptions of love with some of them bearing no resemblance to GODLY LOVE at all.
Human love can never truly fulfill God's requirements and it is at best only a minimal beginning in our understanding of it. As in everything we are to GROW in the Grace and Knowledge of our Saviour Jesus Christ and when we do we will very soon see our deplorable shortfall . Human love is not something to count on or depend on as being satisfactory to God.
McBell
Unbound
Um...
How exactly do these verses say that anything not done of love is sin?
Seeing as you completely forgot to explain that part in your rush to present your verses.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Ok, I thought this seemed to be self evident. Read slowly it should become clear.
Law defines what is wrong (Romans 5:13). Sin is wrong. Obviously love is right. Since all of the law hangs on loving God and loving your neighbor (Matt 22:40) ergo since the law defines what is wrong (and sin is wrong) and not loving is wrong it is apparent that not loving is sin.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Let me see if I understand where you are coming from, are we supossed to fulfill those two commandments, loving God and loving our neighbor, with our love or God's love?
Now that is a great question indeed.
Can I put it this way ?
To begin with all we have is our human love and the way we apply it. God can not expect better at this early stage since the love of God is not in man at that time. So we will love God with a human love which is basically inward-looking, for our own benefit and satisfaction. But after reading His Word it must become obvious to us that God requires things from us we are not very happy to comply with, or at best find it difficult and therefore read over it or turn it to our advantage. Let's take xmas or sunday-worship. Neither are requested or commanded in the Bible - so what do we do ? Christianity has continued in it for centuries.
What does Jesus say ? " I have kept my Fathers Commandments....and always do those things that please him " God commands the keeping of the 7th day sabbath the 4th Command.
If we read through the chapters of 1John we can learn what it means to love God with a Godly love. After all we are to GROW in the Grace and knowledge of Christ and that means change.
This is my understanding of the scriptures.
McBell
Unbound
Nope.
It matters not how slowly I read it...
It matters not that i read it backwards...
It matters not that I read it up side down...
It STILL does not say, nor even hint, that anything not done of love is sin.
So you forget to mention this verse when presenting them?
For sake of argument, I will play along.
Unless of course that love is between two people of the same sex.
Or two people who are not married.
Is the sin doubled if it is an un-married same sex couple?
So, obviously your usage of "obviously" is misleading at best, flat out wrong at worse.
Ah.
The mental gymnastics revealed.
Beta-
The Constitution of the Mosaic law was 'temporary' law for ancient Israel.
While Jesus was alive he kept the law perfectly.
After his resurrection there was the Christian way which made the old law no longer in effect. Like the covenant of circumcision is no longer in effect. Now as Romans 2vs28,29 says circumcision is now of the heart Not the letter. -meaning the 'letter' of the Mosaic law. Christ is th end of the law- Rom 10v4; and discharged from it.- Rom 7v6.
see: Eph 2vs13-15; Col 2vs13,14; Rom 14vs4-6
Sabbath was not part of the necessary things of Acts 15vs28,29 either.
Sabbath under the law was Saturday. It was Constantine, not first-century Christianity, which in the year 321 he made Sunday the Sabbath except for farmers.
The Constitution of the Mosaic law was 'temporary' law for ancient Israel.
While Jesus was alive he kept the law perfectly.
After his resurrection there was the Christian way which made the old law no longer in effect. Like the covenant of circumcision is no longer in effect. Now as Romans 2vs28,29 says circumcision is now of the heart Not the letter. -meaning the 'letter' of the Mosaic law. Christ is th end of the law- Rom 10v4; and discharged from it.- Rom 7v6.
see: Eph 2vs13-15; Col 2vs13,14; Rom 14vs4-6
Sabbath was not part of the necessary things of Acts 15vs28,29 either.
Sabbath under the law was Saturday. It was Constantine, not first-century Christianity, which in the year 321 he made Sunday the Sabbath except for farmers.
First, Jesus gave us a 'new' command regarding love at John 13vs34,35 to now love others as he loved us.......
The definition of Godly love is defined at 1st Cor. 13vs4-6 which is in sharp contrast with the selfish, distorted form of love mentioned at 2nd Timothy 3vs1-5,13 where today's peoples attitudes and behavior is described.
That is the final fruitage, or end result, of the failure of people to respond to Jesus teachings before Jesus brings an end to the last days of badness on earth and Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting with the people alive and living on earth at the time of Matthew 25v31,32.
URAVIP2ME , actually I do not disagree too much with the above posts. Many of the OT laws were abolished by Christ but the sabbath / sunday question was not.
As you say this was changed in AD325 (or therabouts) BY MAN and that can not be right, can it ?
The NT says the sabbath (and there is only one) was made for MAN . It is also included in the Commandments to be kept by MAN. Jesus kept the sabbath , Jesus kept the Commandments and he tells US to keep them in order to ABIDE IN HIS LOVE. Also we read in scripture that breaking any given law by God is sin.
If we put all these scriptures together there can be no doubt that 'sabbath-breaking' is sin. It was in the OT and is also in the NT - it being a spiritual law that is eternal, holy ,(sanctified) just and good Rom.7.
People can make what they want of it but scripture can not be broken. It also tells us that the sabbath will be re-established in the new Earth showing us that breaking it was never right.
As you say this was changed in AD325 (or therabouts) BY MAN and that can not be right, can it ?
The NT says the sabbath (and there is only one) was made for MAN . It is also included in the Commandments to be kept by MAN. Jesus kept the sabbath , Jesus kept the Commandments and he tells US to keep them in order to ABIDE IN HIS LOVE. Also we read in scripture that breaking any given law by God is sin.
If we put all these scriptures together there can be no doubt that 'sabbath-breaking' is sin. It was in the OT and is also in the NT - it being a spiritual law that is eternal, holy ,(sanctified) just and good Rom.7.
People can make what they want of it but scripture can not be broken. It also tells us that the sabbath will be re-established in the new Earth showing us that breaking it was never right.
Now here we have some examples of what ' human love ' can be like. In our eyes we see little wrong in the examples above but God looks at them and judges them differently.
Therefore we can not say that human love is pleasing to God. It is way wrong .
It is true we can come to Christ in our sinful state but his laws and his love will clean us up IF IF IF we allow him into our heart and mind. That means we are to take it further THAN JUST KNOWING HIS WILL , we also DO IT Jas.1&2. Heb.5v9. Salvation requires obedience - says scripture.