What is Hell?

[Thief]

There's another thread in which someone tries...desperately to denounce the concept...altogether.

I think he's afraid.

And he should be.

Let's say...
Heaven is where God is.
Hell is not having His attention...grace....presence...etc...etc.

If you could wander the universe at will, and do as you please, but do so alone....
You might be in hell?

 

[outhouse]

In the NT, all these words are from the mouth of Jesus. . .he is the one who teaches about hell.

in almost every phrase, one could find and use gahenna as the origin

 

[smokydot]

in almost every phrase, one could find and use gahenna as the origin

The Greek word for hell is gehenna.

 

[smokydot]

There's another thread in which someone tries...desperately to denounce the concept...altogether.
I think he's afraid.
And he should be.
Let's say...
Heaven is where God is.
Hell is not having His attention...grace....presence...etc...etc.
If you could wander the universe at will, and do as you please, but do so alone....
You might be in hell?

Make that outer space and you have my attention!

 

[Friend of Bill W]

The Greek word for hell is gehenna.

And it was a REAL place outside of Jerusalem where the rubbish was dumped. Fires would burn there. Criminals who'd been executed would be dumped there.

And when children were naughty, their Mommy would say, "Look you little git, if you don't behave, you'll end up in Gehenna".

With a bit of twisting, Gehenna became known as Hell and humans were threatened with it; you know... accept Jesus Christ as your saviour, that he died on the cross for our sins, otherwise you'll burn in Hell; oh, and we'll be needing a tithe of 10% of your income. Thanks.

Hell is not a Bible teaching!

Would a loving God want you to be tortured in a 'Hell' for all eternity for crimes committed on a finite level?

I'm not a Christian, but even I can see this is ridiculous.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I just bought one, and shelved it, probably permanently, after about 30 minutes.

Not for everyone, I guess. I've read mine a few times.

 

[outhouse]

And it was a REAL place outside of Jerusalem where the rubbish was dumped. Fires would burn there. Criminals who'd been executed would be dumped there.

And when children were naughty, their Mommy would say, "Look you little git, if you don't behave, you'll end up in Gehenna".

With a bit of twisting, Gehenna became known as Hell and humans were threatened with it; you know... accept Jesus Christ as your saviour, that he died on the cross for our sins, otherwise you'll burn in Hell; oh, and we'll be needing a tithe of 10% of your income. Thanks.

Hell is not a Bible teaching!

Would a loving God want you to be tortured in a 'Hell' for all eternity for crimes committed on a finite level?

I'm not a Christian, but even I can see this is ridiculous.

yes the valley of hinnom

 

[Breathe]

Not for everyone, I guess. I've read mine a few times.

I've read through the Quran a few times, but I don't feel the same respect for it that you do. Don't have any love for it. Just doesn't speak to me. I've seen far better poetry in a religious book too, like texts of the Bhagavad Gita and Guru Granth Sahib.

It's interesting how some people like it, others' don't.

 

[smokydot]

And it was a REAL place outside of Jerusalem where the rubbish was dumped. Fires would burn there. Criminals who'd been executed would be dumped there.
And when children were naughty, their Mommy would say, "Look you little git, if you don't behave, you'll end up in Gehenna".
With a bit of twisting, Gehenna became known as Hell and humans were threatened with it; you know... accept Jesus Christ as your saviour, that he died on the cross for our sins, otherwise you'll burn in Hell; oh, and we'll be needing a tithe of 10% of your income. Thanks.
Hell is not a Bible teaching!
Would a loving God want you to be tortured in a 'Hell' for all eternity for crimes committed on a finite level?
I'm not a Christian, but even I can see this is ridiculous.

Not being a Christian has a lot to do with your denial of hell.
Your rationale here, Friend, is a little lame.

Gehenna was the name for a deep ravine south of Jerusalem, the "Valley of (the Sons) of Hinnom" (Hebrew ge himmom). During the reigns of the wicked Ahaz and Manasseh, human sacrificies to the Ammonite god Molech were offered there. Josiah desecrated the valley because of the pagan worship there (2 Ki 23:10; see Jer 7:31-32, 19:6). It became a sort of perpetually burning city dump and later a figure for the place of final
punishment.

The name was taken from the perpetually burning city dump.
The place itself is the teaching of Jesus Christ.
By what authority do you claim it is not a Biblical teaching, when it is actually found in the Bible, coming from Jesus himself?

And God is not only loving, he is also just.
You have no idea of the magnitude in his sight of any sin against his holy, righteous, sinless person.
His justice requires that the magnitude of sin be punished with a penalty of like magnitude.
That is what hell is.

 

[outhouse]

Your rationale here, Friend, is a little lame

how so????

you yourself sate gehenna is a deep ravine.

Is a deep ravine hell according to the bible?????

With a bit of twisting, Gehenna became known as Hell

My opinion is that this is %100 correct. It started outas a valley and later became one with the term hell.

Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gehenna has become a metonym for "Hell"

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment

Eventually the Hebrew term Gehinnom[5] became a figurative name for the place of spiritual purification for the wicked dead

I believe friend of Bill nailed it

 

[ellenjanuary]

I've read through the Quran a few times, but I don't feel the same respect for it that you do. Don't have any love for it. Just doesn't speak to me. I've seen far better poetry in a religious book too, like texts of the Bhagavad Gita and Guru Granth Sahib.

It's interesting how some people like it, others' don't.

Gita's pretty sweet, too. That other one, I guess I'm gonna hafta do some research. Thanks.

As for what some people like, there's reality TV... I just don't get it.

 

[smokydot]

how so????

It's sophomoric.

you yourself sate gehenna is a deep ravine.
Is a deep ravine hell according to the bible?????
My opinion is that this is %100 correct. It started outas a valley and later became one with the term hell.
Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not the way it is presented in the NT.

The valley started out as Gehinnom (in Hebrew).
Because of the human sacrifices, wickedness and pagan worship of demons there,
it was the perfect picture (symbol, representation) of the evildoers' place of eternal punishment.

The place of eternal punishment existed before Gehinnom.
When the place of perpetual fire was revealed by Jesus Christ, he gave it the name of a most fitting symbol of it--the perpetually burning city dump
which was formerly a valley of demonic evil.

I believe friend of Bill nailed it

Not according to the NT.

 

[outhouse]

Not according to the NT.

the NT twisted its original meaning.

gehenna goes back to the OT

 

[ellenjanuary]

Not according to the NT.

Man, you bumped yer head. If one considers the whole Bible, the transition from Old to New was accomplished through the reservation of the punishment of sin from mortal life to after life. This was because of the Christian innovation of "spreading the Word;" and while Moses might have gotten away with threatening Pharoah (whose Nile-based kingdom was victimized by seasonal extremes that the prophet most likely exploited), that wasn't gonna fly with a far--flung empire like Rome.

In the beginning, the vast majority of Christian converts were the poor and disenfranchised. People who had nothing in this life were highly succeptible to a belief system that spoke of eternal paradise. Not to mention, Christianity was free; to worship someone cool, like Isis, one had to pay.

Jesus spoke of eternal flame, not because god was going to punish anyone, but in order to give his followers a "stick" to the carrot of "eternal life." But, it seems here is where many Christians get it wrong. When one is born again, baptized in the Spirit, eternal life begins now. There should be no nonsense talk of hell, because if one is of the Spirit, the concept of being "without god" (which is the only definnition of hell that makes any kind of sense, besides the historical interpretation) is beyond understanding.

So. If you call yourself a Christian, and yer flapping yer gums about hell; you are commiting sin. That's it. Sinner. Five Hail Marys, five Our Fathers; go, my son, and sin no more.

 

[smokydot]

Man, you bumped yer head. If one considers the whole Bible, the transition from Old to New was accomplished through the reservation of the punishment of sin from mortal life to after life. This was because of the Christian innovation of "spreading the Word;" and while Moses might have gotten away with threatening Pharoah (whose Nile-based kingdom was victimized by seasonal extremes that the prophet most likely exploited), that wasn't gonna fly with a far--flung empire like Rome.

In the beginning, the vast majority of Christian converts were the poor and disenfranchised. People who had nothing in this life were highly succeptible to a belief system that spoke of eternal paradise. Not to mention, Christianity was free; to worship someone cool, like Isis, one had to pay.

Jesus spoke of eternal flame, not because god was going to punish anyone, but in order to give his followers a "stick" to the carrot of "eternal life."

And you know this how?

That's not the way the NT presents it.

But, it seems here is where many Christians get it wrong. When one is born again, baptized in the Spirit, eternal life begins now. There should be no nonsense talk of hell, because if one is of the Spirit, the concept of being "without god" (which is the only definnition of hell that makes any kind of sense, besides the historical interpretation) is beyond understanding.

You've forgotten about God's justice which requires payment to the last penny from those whose sin has not been forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ and his saving work on the cross, which faith is evidenced by obedience to Jesus' commands.

So. If you call yourself a Christian, and yer flapping yer gums about hell; you are commiting sin. That's it. Sinner. Five Hail Marys, five Our Fathers; go, my son, and sin no more.

I like the "yer flapping yer gums about hell" part. . .

Hell is not for the born again Christian whose sin has been forgiven.
It is for all those whose sin has not been forgiven by faith In Jesus Christ.
God's justice requires punishment for sin. . .which is why Jesus sacrificed himself. . .to satisfy God's justice for those who believe in him.

 

[smokydot]

the NT twisted its original meaning.

There is no "twisting" of anything, anymore than it is "twisting" to name my dog Tiger because he resembles one. It's just a name based on what it resembles.
Jesus named the place of eternal punishment for the evildoers Gehenna because that's what it resembled--aperpetuallyburningfire.

gehenna goes back to the OT

That's what I showed in my post #32.

 

[ellenjanuary]

And you know this how?

The short answer is - from accepting the title of "prophet" from "the god of Abraham."
The long answer is, well, long. I got a wonky internet connection right here; and I'd hafta research a pile of scripture... by the time I'm ready to present my case, we'll be arguing about something else. It'll be in my book, though; cause I hate hell. The idea of hell, the threat of hell, talk about hell - gets me burning.

That's not the way the NT presents it.
You've forgotten about God's justice which requires payment to the last penny from those whose sin has not been forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ and his saving work on the cross, which faith is evidenced by obedience to Jesus' commands.

Thing is, the NT is limited in what it could have presented. Everyone knows that it was written in Greek, but not everyone realizes that Greek was the language of culture and learning at the time. And yet, it's highly unlikely Jesus or his intended congregation spoke Greek. What would happen today, if a messiah just appeared in Africa, speaking some obscure Swahili or something, and his chroniclers rushed into publication into English? A mess would happen. Besides, today we know of things like marketing strategies, and target audiences; and anyone who thinks the gospels didn't have a specific target audience ain't thinking.

That's why (ideally) the Spirit is important. Knowledge gained without the Spirit is learning; knowledge gained with the Spirit is wisdom. Like I mentioned above, I will eventually corollate all my data and scriptural references.

I like the "yer flapping yer gums about hell" part. . .

Hell is not for the born again Christian whose sin has been forgiven.
It is for all those whose sin has not been forgiven by faith In Jesus Christ.
God's justice requires punishment for sin. . .which is why Jesus sacrificed himself. . .to satisfy God's justice for those who believe in him.

Here's where we're gonna hafta agree to disagree for the nonce. Hell ain't for nobody.

 

[smokydot]

The short answer is - from accepting the title of "prophet" from "the god of Abraham."
The long answer is, well, long. I got a wonky internet connection right here; and I'd hafta research a pile of scripture... by the time I'm ready to present my case, we'll be arguing about something else. It'll be in my book, though; cause I hate hell. The idea of hell, the threat of hell, talk about hell - gets me burning.
Thing is, the NT is limited in what it could have presented. Everyone knows that it was written in Greek, but not everyone realizes that Greek was the language of culture and learning at the time. And yet, it's highly unlikely Jesus or his intended congregation spoke Greek. What would happen today, if a messiah just appeared in Africa, speaking some obscure Swahili or something, and his chroniclers rushed into publication into English? A mess would happen. Besides, today we know of things like marketing strategies, and target audiences; and anyone who thinks the gospels didn't have a specific target audience ain't thinking.

That the NT is the Word of God written is a matter of faith.
It cannot be proven.
And I guess we will have to leave it at that.

That's why (ideally) the Spirit is important. Knowledge gained without the Spirit is learning; knowledge gained with the Spirit is wisdom. Like I mentioned above, I will eventually corollate all my data and scriptural references.
Here's where we're gonna hafta agree to disagree for the nonce. Hell ain't for nobody.

I think so. . .because I believe the NT is the Word of God written, which is a matter of faith, not of proof.

 

[outhouse]

There is no "twisting" of anything

so do you think sheol, hades and gehenna mean exactly the same thing?

The place itself is the teaching of Jesus Christ.

are you sure it didnt exist before the NT???

when it is actually found in the Bible, coming from Jesus himself?

I believe it did not originate from jesus.

It's just a name based on what it resembles

I think your missing the point, it was a name of a place that was later renamed "hell". "twisted"


Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Valley of Hinnom, c. 1900

Does this look like hell??????????

Gehenna, gehinnam, or gehinnom are terms derived from a geographical site in Jerusalem known as the Valley of Hinnom

Jewish folklore suggests the valley had a 'gate' which led down to a molten lake of fire.

keyword "folklore"

In my opinion, This folklore of gehenna is what started the hell myth that the NT uses. That and the hades myth and sheol which means grave.

 

[Man of Faith]

I know exactly what hell is and what it is like. If you don't know then maybe you need to study up on it.