What is Hell?

[Pegg]

--he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire
--will be in danger of hell fire
--and be thrown into eternal fire
--into the eternal fire prepared for
--where the fire never goes out
--and the fire is not quenched

In the NT, all these words are from the mouth of Jesus. . .he is the one who teaches about hell.

you have to remember that a lot of what Jesus said was 'illustrative' rather then literal. He used hyperbole a lot to emphasis a point he wanted people to take to heart.

fire was illustrative for 'cleansing' and 'condemning'

a person was said to be 'refined' by fire in the way fire is used by a metal worker to clean and purify it.
And you could be burnt by the fire of someones 'anger' if you were not careful.

Hyperbole.

 

[ellenjanuary]

LOL, you mean Aramaic.

LMAO! I don't know what I mean...

 

[ellenjanuary]

No, I think it was cocky of you to say "Study it." to someone. That, or an incredibly arrogant statement to make.



First off, don't assume I do not know the book of Hebrews. Do not assume I have not studied it. You don't really know anything about me, son, so it's not very wise or informed of you to suggest to me to study your scripture.

This is not a competition, but so you understand that I'm not some ignoramus who has never even picked up a Bible in my life, before you start telling me I need to study your religious texts, you should understand this: I've read the Quran, Bible (OT and NT--with study aid, read through NT in KJV, NIV, CEV versions), Sri Guru Granth Sahib (and by extension of this, Amritbani Guru Ravidass Ji), Rig Veda, the Book of Mormon (including Words of Wisdom), the Bhagavad Gita and even the Tao Te Ching from cover to cover, as well as reading some of the Book of the Dead, and the Heart and Lotus Sutras. I've also read some of the Gathas, and a little bit of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but not much of either of these, and am hoping to read the Avesta and to read through the whole Sri Dasam Granth.

Hope that cleared that up.

You get my vote. Smokydot's a cocky fellow. I think smokydot just wants to burn somebody... hey! The Vatican's doctrine of faith is just another name for the holy inquisition. Maybe they're accepting applications...

 

[Friend of Bill W]

I often wonder what the motives are for people who seem to actually want to believe in a Hell. It's almost like they want to see a bunch of people whom they judge not to be worthy, to be tortured for all eternity.

As for this:

I know exactly what hell is and what it is like. If you don't know then maybe you need to study up on it.

LOL. In Alcoholics Anonymous - which has a spiritual program of recovery - they say that Religion is for people who don't want to go to Hell and Spirituality is for those who've already been.

Anyway, I think you'll find that 'Hell' - as in Ghenna (the rubbish tip) - in the Bible is actually a literal or metaphorical destination for the wicked.

And these images of 'hell' in the Gospels have been developed and added to throughout the history of Christianity. I've got some excerpts from The Sprititual Exercises of Saint Ignatius Loyola, which was a kind of Hitchhiker's guide to the the Christian universe published in the 16th Century...

"Let us fancy we see hell, and imagine what is worst to behold - a horrible cavern, full of black flames, sulpher, devils, dragons, fire, swords, arrows, and innumerable damned, who roar in despair. Imagine the worst you can, then say "All this is nothing compared to hell".
:no:

 

[smokydot]

No, I think it was cocky of you to say "Study it." to someone. That, or an incredibly arrogant statement to make. First off, don't assume I do not know the book of Hebrews. Do not assume I have not studied it. You don't really know anything about me, son, so it's not very wise or informed of you to suggest to me to study your scripture.

Then why would you suggest that I am picking and choosing the Scriptures I will believe, when the NT clearly explains the relationship of the new covenant to the old covenant law.

This is not a competition, but so you understand that I'm not some ignoramus who has never even picked up a Bible in my life, before you start telling me I need to study your religious texts, you should understand this: I've read the Quran, Bible (OT and NT--with study aid, read through NT in KJV, NIV, CEV versions), Sri Guru Granth Sahib (and by extension of this, Amritbani Guru Ravidass Ji), Rig Veda, the Book of Mormon (including Words of Wisdom), the Bhagavad Gita and even the Tao Te Ching from cover to cover, as well as reading some of the Book of the Dead, and the Heart and Lotus Sutras. I've also read some of the Gathas, and a little bit of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but not much of either of these, and am hoping to read the Avesta and to read through the whole Sri Dasam Granth.
Hope that cleared that up.

I'm still wondering why you would suggest to someone who believes the Bible, that they are picking and choosing the Scriptures they believe, specifically regarding the Levitical law, if you know the book of Hebrews and its clear explanation of the relation of the new covenant to the old covenant.
The Levitical law is a perfect picture in symbol of Jesus Christ, the Messiah.
Now that the Levitical law is fulfilled in Jesus Christ, this picture of him is no longer needed to give knowledge of him.
Giving you credit for being consistent, I could see only one conclusion for why you would suggest I don't believe all of Scripture. . .and that was because you don't know all of Scripture.

 

[smokydot]

you have to remember that a lot of what Jesus said was 'illustrative' rather then literal. He used hyperbole a lot to emphasis a point he wanted people to take to heart.

Actually that is conjecture, we don't really know that.
Would you please refresh my memory on some of his uses of hyperbole. . .not allegory, or analogy, or parabola, but hyperbole. . .thanks.

fire was illustrative for 'cleansing' and 'condemning'
a person was said to be 'refined' by fire in the way fire is used by a metal worker to clean and purify it.
And you could be burnt by the fire of someones 'anger' if you were not careful.
Hyperbole.

 

[smokydot]

You get my vote. Smokydot's a cocky fellow. I think smokydot just wants to burn somebody...

Seems the same can be said of Jesus.
Smokydot just wants to present the testimony of Scripture in matters related to it which we are discussing.

hey! The Vatican's doctrine of faith is just another name for the holy inquisition. Maybe they're accepting applications...

 

[smokydot]

I often wonder what the motives are for people who seem to actually want to believe in a Hell. It's almost like they want to see a bunch of people whom they judge not to be worthy, to be tortured for all eternity.

You know, I've thought the same things about those cancer warnings on cigarettes.
I often wonder what the motives are for people who actually want to believe in cancer.
It's almost like they want to see a bunch of people whom they judge not to be worthy, to be tortured to death with cancer.

As for this:
LOL. In Alcoholics Anonymous - which has a spiritual program of recovery - they say that Religion is for people who don't want to go to Hell and Spirituality is for those who've already been.
Anyway, I think you'll find that 'Hell' - as in Ghenna (the rubbish tip) - in the Bible is actually a literal or metaphorical destination for the wicked.
And these images of 'hell' in the Gospels have been developed and added to throughout the history of Christianity. I've got some excerpts from The Sprititual Exercises of Saint Ignatius Loyola, which was a kind of Hitchhiker's guide to the the Christian universe published in the 16th Century...
"Let us fancy we see hell, and imagine what is worst to behold - a horrible cavern, full of black flames, sulpher, devils, dragons, fire, swords, arrows, and innumerable damned, who roar in despair. Imagine the worst you can, then say "All this is nothing compared to hell".
:no:

 

[outhouse]

Smokey

Are you saying that you belive in a certain particular hell because jesus said so?

how are you going to descibe this place?

 

[outhouse]

Then why would you suggest that I am picking and choosing the Scriptures I will believe

because I believe no one can follow all the scripures.

case in point here is one with jesus love, a flowing.

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

or

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

 

[can't wait for the end]

There is no such thing as hell .we're living in the devils world. Read the bible and tell me were it says we are all going to hell ??

 

[smokydot]

Quite a cocky fellow aren't you?

Odion,

It seems I mistook you for outhouse when you responded to my post to him.

That is why I asked why you suggested that I just picked and chose the Scriptures i would believe.

Actually, you didn't suggest that, outhouse did.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[smokydot]

Smokey
Are you saying that you belive in a certain particular hell because jesus said so?
how are you going to descibe this place?

Yes, I believe in the hell Jesus repeatedly warned of.
And I know no more about it than what he said.

 

[smokydot]

because I believe no one can follow all the scripures.
case in point here is one with jesus love, a flowing.
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Ah, gee, outhouse. You've got that so mixed up.
Why do non-Christians try to explain the NT?

or
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

It's the same incident reported in Mark, and you've got it so mixed up.
So why do non-Christians try to explain the NT?

 

[outhouse]

Why do non-Christians try to explain the NT?

being raised by nuns in a private church school and reading the bible a few times doesnt count?

 

[Mister Emu]

The Eastern churches teach, and I tend to believe, that Heaven and Hell are different experiences of the unadultered love of God... some experience it as bliss others as torment.

 

[Pegg]

Actually that is conjecture, we don't really know that.
Would you please refresh my memory on some of his uses of hyperbole. . .not allegory, or analogy, or parabola, but hyperbole. . .thanks.

"it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle..."

in the illustration of the 'rich man & Lazarus, he says: "the rich man called out to Lazarus and asked for 'drop of water' to cool his tongue because of the burning fire he was in

 

[Friend of Bill W]

One of my neighbours is in her early 50s; she's crippled with arthritis. I'm not sure what form of arthritis she has, but she's suffered with it since she was 16 years old and had her first knee replacement when she was 19 years old.

Since then she's had 9 operations (I'm guessing to replace various joints) and she lives in constant pain. She has problems sleeping because she can't find a comfortable position to lie down in. Her hands are next to useless; gnarled balls of flesh that've locked in one position and are unmoveable. She almost lives in night dresses because getting dressed and undressed is too painful for her. Obviously she's just about housebound. The pain she experiences is unbelievable - my heart really does go out to this woman.

And to be honest, if I were her, I think I would've killed myself by now; but if there is a Hell she's well and truly in it; right up to her painful neck.

And if I thought a 'loving God' would do that to her - she's suffered since childhood - then he's one God that I want nothing to do with.

 

[Breathe]

Odion,

It seems I mistook you for outhouse when you responded to my post to him.

That is why I asked why you suggested that I just picked and chose the Scriptures i would believe.

Actually, you didn't suggest that, outhouse did.

Sorry for the confusion.

No worries, it's happened to me in the past, too.

 

[Erebus]

The Eastern churches teach, and I tend to believe, that Heaven and Hell are different experiences of the unadultered love of God... some experience it as bliss others as torment.

That's an interesting idea. Does this mean then that Hell would be an emotional state rather than a physical one? (As in, guilt, shame etc rather than hellfire).