That's my point!
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What is Hell?
- Thread starter Irelandrulz2
- Start date
Mine too!
Woo hoo!
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Why? Does Hell necessarily have to include the optimum amount of torture or is separation from God and endless regret enough?
It has to be only what God makes it to be.
But for me, separation from God would be torture, and the added regret would only make it worse.
Not sure I would even feel the physical pain in that state of inner torture.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Fair enough.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
and what exactly is Gehenna? Look up 'Valley of Hinnom'. I think its important to know exactly what it is.
The New Bible Commentary (page 779): “Gehenna was the Hellenized form of the name of the valley of Hinnom at Jerusalem in which fires were kept constantly burning to consume the refuse of the city. This is a powerful picture of final destruction.”
"...And if your eye makes you stumble, throw it away; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into the kingdom of God than with two eyes to be pitched into Gehenna, where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.”—Mark 9:43-48
Gehenna is the final judgement of God...it is everlasting death....there is no consciousness when we are dead so its not a state you'll even know you are in.
Ecclesiaties 9:5 "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all..."
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outhouse
Atheistically
Do you mean once correctly twisted into what they want to believe?
I gave you one small example and I believe you danced all around the truth.
heres a few more examples
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
You dont think hell is for the living?
There are two deaths in Scripture.
The first is physical death. It will no longer exist at the general resurrection of all mankind.
The second death is spiritual death, which is not death of the body, but is separation from God.
It is a permanently-living, separated-from-God, experiencing-his-wrath state, in which the evildoers will be fixed after the general resurrection.
Jesus said it would be better to go through life with various parts of your body missing, than to be thrown into Gehenna intact.
If you are dead, unconscious or annihilated in Gehenna, then what makes it better to live on earth with parts of your body missing, than to be thrown into Gehenna intact?
The second death in Gehenna as unconcious, dead or annihilated is not orthodox Christianity.
First, these are both the same events, reported in two separate gospels.
Second, let's look at the texts, which I will integrate for a fuller picture.
Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders?". . .
And he said to them, "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God (note that Jesus says the commands of the OT did in fact come from God, and not from man) in order to observe your own traditions. For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban (that is, a gift irrevocably devoted to God), he is not to 'honor his father' with it (tantamount to cursing him). Thus you nullify the word of God (note that Jesus says Scripture is the word of God)
for the sake of your tradition."
So the Pharisees accuse Jesus of breaking the tradition of the elders, and Jesus shows them they are breaking law of God, for the sake of their tradition.
Jesus is not criticizing parents for not killing their children (parents didn't get to do that, that was the job of the ruling council).
He is quoting the whole law regarding what children owed their parents--honor, and the consequences of not honoring (which is cursing) them.
Failure to honor their parents was, in effect, cursing them, and was therefore subject to the death penalty.
Jesus is not criticizing parents here, he is correcting the teachers of the law, whose traditions caused (adult) children to dishonor and, effectively, curse their parents.
He is turning their charge of breaking the tradition of the elders back on themselves, by showing they break the law of God for the sake of their traditions.
And yes, Christians don't follow the laws of the OT covenant, because that covenant has been abolished (see NT letter to the Hebrews),
and a new covenent made in the blood of Jesus, of which he is the mediator,
as Moses was the mediator of the old covenant.
So not obeying the laws of the old covenant is not failure to follow the Scriptures,
rather it is following the Scriptures of the NT, which abolishes the laws of the old covenent.
Yes, Christians can follow all the Scriptures, correctly understood.
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He didn't fulfill all the Scriptures, he fulfilled all the Levitical laws.
I guess not, the Jews had him killed.
RamaRaksha
*banned*
All these views of Hell are basically designed to frighten you to come to the right path but they are being misused by some religions to convert others. They changed the concept - originally it was limited to people who do evil things but they changed that to evil + those who did not belong to their religion, reducing god to a common proselytizer in the process. Using God as a conversion tool, abuse of GOD, IMHO.
Just convert, get down on your knees & beg for his mercy & it's hawaii for eternity! yay!
it just insults of senses & modern values what torture has to do with so-called evil. This evil guy tortured & made people suffer, so God is going to torture him & make him suffer? An eye for an eye? 2 wrongs make a right?
Primitive religions, primitive concepts.
Just convert, get down on your knees & beg for his mercy & it's hawaii for eternity! yay!
it just insults of senses & modern values what torture has to do with so-called evil. This evil guy tortured & made people suffer, so God is going to torture him & make him suffer? An eye for an eye? 2 wrongs make a right?
Primitive religions, primitive concepts.
Jesus is the one doing the frightening, because we learn of it only from him.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
such a repulsive evil doctrine would never come from someone as loving and peaceful as Jesus
The NT says it comes from him.
That's why he voluntarily submitted to such a cruel death--to save those who believe in him from the wrath of God which they are under for their sin.
If there is no hell, he didn't need to die to save those who believe in him from that horrible place.
If those who are there are unconscious, dead or annihilated, why die to keep anyone from having to go there?
Your view of hell is not that of orthodox Christianity.
It's a matter of faith.
Correct understanding of Scripture agrees with all the rest of Scripture. "Twisting" will only defeat that goal.
What truth did I dance around?
You jerked a statement out of context and tried to force your meaning onto it.
I simply presented its meaning in its context.
A text without a context is a pretext.
Yes, those are precisely laws of the old covenant. . .and they are good laws.
Remember these people had lived among pagans for more than 200 years when Moses led them out of Egypt. They were infested with idolatry.
They had to go through a moral boot camp to get back in shape to be the people of God.
But the old covenant and its Levitical laws were abolished when the one to whom they pointed fulfilled them all, and made a new covenant in his blood.
He is the new High Priest, the once-for-all perfect sacrifice, the cleansing of sin by the blood of the sacrifice, and the mediator of a new covenant in his blood,
just as Moses was the mediator of the old covenant in animal blood.
This is all clearly explained in the NT letter to the Hebrews.
The OT is correctly understood only in the light of the NT.
It is most definitely for the living.
Evildoers will live there for all eternity.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the 'horrible place' that Jesus spoke about was 'the grave'
there is no suffering in the grave...in fact when we die we naturally say 'rest in peace' because people who go to their graves are 'resting' they are at 'peace'
The interpreting of the grave/hell/hades/sheol to mean anything except the grave is false and misleading. The church's adopted such sinister ideas during the darkages to frighten people, to control people and because they had reverted to pagan ideas because many came from pagan religions.
outhouse
Atheistically
you mean interpet and comply
no there not , i believe there very barbaric
not buying this either
what your trying to say is only your religion explains another religion properly.
if god was such the smart creator why did he screw his first book up so bad? that it needed another book to justify the horror???