chinu
chinu
Simple
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What is imperfect ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Chinu I mean no disrespect, but the idea that everything is an illusion is not just impossible to substantiate, but actually incredibly dangerous.
It can indeed be said that the only thing we each can be absolutely certain of is that 'I exist', yet the philosophy you suggest, that these people should 'leave' their bodies is incredibly ill-advised given we have no way of being certain there is some supernatural dimension (if we cannot be certain THIS dimension exists, to claim certainty of some other dimension seems far less viable) and is also (as I mentioned before) extremely dangerous - two of the groups mentioned by Pegg (the third I assume die), are sometimes people who experience such great hardship and hopelessness that they might be swayed by claims that offer a 'better deal' in the next life compared to their current life - with claims such as 'leave their body' to leave the illusion might sway some to suicide.
The forum on which we post our comments allowing others to see them, is no more an illusion than the computers we are currently using, or the fingers with which we type or the eyes with which we view our screens. Our bodies are physical vessels which house our intellectual and emotional selves - while I do not believe it is so, perhaps their may be more: a soul, an after life, a supernatural dimension to ourselves and all of existence that we have yet to discover or fully realize - but our physical bodies do exist.
Even if you believe as you do that everything is an illusion, then to suggest that people leave their bodies is ill advised. If you are right then when their physical life time expires from old age the illusion will end anyway.
It can indeed be said that the only thing we each can be absolutely certain of is that 'I exist', yet the philosophy you suggest, that these people should 'leave' their bodies is incredibly ill-advised given we have no way of being certain there is some supernatural dimension (if we cannot be certain THIS dimension exists, to claim certainty of some other dimension seems far less viable) and is also (as I mentioned before) extremely dangerous - two of the groups mentioned by Pegg (the third I assume die), are sometimes people who experience such great hardship and hopelessness that they might be swayed by claims that offer a 'better deal' in the next life compared to their current life - with claims such as 'leave their body' to leave the illusion might sway some to suicide.
The forum on which we post our comments allowing others to see them, is no more an illusion than the computers we are currently using, or the fingers with which we type or the eyes with which we view our screens. Our bodies are physical vessels which house our intellectual and emotional selves - while I do not believe it is so, perhaps their may be more: a soul, an after life, a supernatural dimension to ourselves and all of existence that we have yet to discover or fully realize - but our physical bodies do exist.
Even if you believe as you do that everything is an illusion, then to suggest that people leave their bodies is ill advised. If you are right then when their physical life time expires from old age the illusion will end anyway.
Last edited:
Imperfection is "flesh". "The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" is a biblical quote. We say things such as "I'd love to finish what I was doing but I am tired". "I wish I could stop eating that cheese cake, but it is so darned good". "I wish I didn't want to do this or that but it feels so good". "I wish I didn't feel a need to do this, but I am so bored". 
(Just being a bit facetious).
(Just being a bit facetious).
roger1440
I do stuff
If everything is an illusion, then a illusion would be an illusion, but then again, everything I say is a lie, LOL
Isn't perfection a matter of opinion or is it qualitative? At any rate, somehow I came about, so in my eyes creation went rather perfect.God is perfect.
Something perfect can not be or do anything imperfect.
Gods will is therefore perfect.
Gods creation is also perfect.
Gods perfect creation has its own will.
What is imperfect ?
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram chinu ji :namaste
yes god is perfect , ....perfect as in complete , nothing missing , all knowing .
yes god is perfect , ....perfect as in complete , nothing missing , all knowing .
gods actions are born of complete knowledge , born of full understanding , therefore have a divine purpose , .....which is the most perfect purpose
gods will therefore comes from that perfectly complete and all knowing being and is beyond fault , therefore it canot be said to be imperfect in any way .
gods creation has the potential for perfection but it is not of the completeness and all knowingness of god therefore it still has to reach this stage of perfection .
god gives both the potential to acheive perfection and the will by which to do it , but that will is such that we may reach that stage through our own realisation , in our own time and at our own speed .
in the great scheem of things nothing is imperfect , as everything is of god , ....there are only degrees of perfection , ...that which is fully realised, ... and that which posseses the potential for realisation .:namasteWhat is imperfect ?
I was thinking along the same regard. I think Chinu says some things will not progress on purpose. (Because he says a spirit can escape an imperfect body) I tend to agree.
gnostic
The Lost One
It really depends on which deity you're talking about, chinu.
Which god or goddess are you referring to about as being "perfect"?
Second, before you can understand what is "imperfect", you'll really need to define what "perfection" mean.
So what is "perfection"?
So please, identify which deity you are talking about and define the word "perfection" is.
Which god or goddess are you referring to about as being "perfect"?
Second, before you can understand what is "imperfect", you'll really need to define what "perfection" mean.
So what is "perfection"?
So please, identify which deity you are talking about and define the word "perfection" is.
As you can see from responses on this thread, both perfect and imperfect are a measure of quality: imperfect denotes flaws, perfect denotes no flaws.What is imperfect ?
"God" is only perfect if you have something to measure it against.
John Martin
Active Member
Dear Sir,
I personally do not like the word 'perfect'. I prefer the words like ' holy, whole, fullness, eternal etc. Hindu scriptures use the word purnam, fullness: God is FULLNESS, creation is also fullness. Purnamadah purnamidam. St.Paul speaks of fullness of God(pleorma) filling all things. Fullness means that God lacks nothings. We may compare God with the Sun which is radiating its light. The nature of fullness is to unfold. We can say that creating is the unfolding of the divine. God does not become but unfolds. The difference between God's Fullness and the fullness of creation and human beings is: God's fullness is like HIggins Boson that gives mass to the other forms of matter. The fullness of creation is receptive fullness that receive mass from God. God is like the Sun and creation is like the Moon. The nature of creation and human beings is to unfold like,not to become. All the creatures unfold life. There is no movement of becoming. But human beings have the possibility to forget their real nature and take the path of becoming, which is the path of filling one's emptiness. It is this path which is the source of struggle, effort, good and evil and violence inside and outside the world. But human beings also have the possibility to remember their true nature and unfold their life. The whole drama of salvation is played because of these two possibilities human beings have. In the NT it is said' Be you perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect'. I would prefer to translate it as, 'Unfold your life as your heavenly Father unfolds his or her life. or Live from your fullness as (God) your heavenly Father unfolds creation from his or her fullness. God is not perfect but Fullness. We are not perfect but fullness. Our true nature or dharma is not to become perfect but to discover our fullness and live from it. Jesus Christ told a parable: the kingdom of God is like a man who found treasure in the field.He went home sold everything and bought that field. To find the treasure is to discover our true nature or self. To sell everything is to give up our false identity, ignorant self which happens spontaneously and done joyfully without hesitation.
I personally do not like the word 'perfect'. I prefer the words like ' holy, whole, fullness, eternal etc. Hindu scriptures use the word purnam, fullness: God is FULLNESS, creation is also fullness. Purnamadah purnamidam. St.Paul speaks of fullness of God(pleorma) filling all things. Fullness means that God lacks nothings. We may compare God with the Sun which is radiating its light. The nature of fullness is to unfold. We can say that creating is the unfolding of the divine. God does not become but unfolds. The difference between God's Fullness and the fullness of creation and human beings is: God's fullness is like HIggins Boson that gives mass to the other forms of matter. The fullness of creation is receptive fullness that receive mass from God. God is like the Sun and creation is like the Moon. The nature of creation and human beings is to unfold like,not to become. All the creatures unfold life. There is no movement of becoming. But human beings have the possibility to forget their real nature and take the path of becoming, which is the path of filling one's emptiness. It is this path which is the source of struggle, effort, good and evil and violence inside and outside the world. But human beings also have the possibility to remember their true nature and unfold their life. The whole drama of salvation is played because of these two possibilities human beings have. In the NT it is said' Be you perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect'. I would prefer to translate it as, 'Unfold your life as your heavenly Father unfolds his or her life. or Live from your fullness as (God) your heavenly Father unfolds creation from his or her fullness. God is not perfect but Fullness. We are not perfect but fullness. Our true nature or dharma is not to become perfect but to discover our fullness and live from it. Jesus Christ told a parable: the kingdom of God is like a man who found treasure in the field.He went home sold everything and bought that field. To find the treasure is to discover our true nature or self. To sell everything is to give up our false identity, ignorant self which happens spontaneously and done joyfully without hesitation.
Last edited:
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
I'm not blaming God for anything, I'm just answering your question. There are imperfections in the world. You can (and will) evade the fact but you can't challenge it.If one is carrying 100kg weight over his/her head and feeling tired while walking, is this an imperfection to blame God ?
Similarly, if one is carring a suffering body, its not a imperfection to blame God.
And imperfect isn't?I suppose "imperfect" covers everything in our reality, since the concept of perfection is really just a case of human subjectivism.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Actually I read this as indicating that since we are perfect (and something perfect can not be or do anything imperfect) yet have free will, anything we do with our free will is perfect - murder, donation to charities, rape, working with the disadvantaged etc, all of them are perfect.
chinu
chinu
Friend InformedIgnorance,
There's lot of difference between leaving the body and a commiting suicide, Commiting suicide is like.. breaking the glass of water to take the water out, whereas leaving the body is like.. taking the water out of glass without breaking it, and in such a condition water can be put into the glass again (when needed). Mean its aparting the soul from body and again putting it in (when needed).
Niether my advise is to commit any suicide, nor my advice is to offer a 'better deal' in the next life compared to their current life, My advice is just to take the soul out of body, and this process is possible before physical life time may get expires. Like, one can put off clothes, similarly one can put off body.
And when one becomes capable of leaving the body by own will before physical death, than there's no any new birth again thereafter physical death, that time one gets away from the cycle of deaths and births, blissful life takes place thereafter.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
@Doors
I agree, but regardless of whether it is premise or conclusion, when combined with the other points it indicates that everything we use our own will to choose to do is perfect.
@Chinu
So you are talking about some out of body experience, in other words to engage in cognitive processes to disassociate oneself from the reality of their situation to make themselves feel better rather than to actually MAKE it better.
I agree, but regardless of whether it is premise or conclusion, when combined with the other points it indicates that everything we use our own will to choose to do is perfect.
@Chinu
So you are talking about some out of body experience, in other words to engage in cognitive processes to disassociate oneself from the reality of their situation to make themselves feel better rather than to actually MAKE it better.
Last edited:
chinu
chinu
No, one can actually MAKE it better.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Science can alleviate symptoms or even cure underlying causes for many problems which cause physiological suffering and sometimes psychological, in other cases society itself can play a role in doing the same, mitigating some of the impacts.
Simply pretending the problem does not exist can only do so much.
Simply pretending the problem does not exist can only do so much.
Last edited: