chinu
chinu
Willamena, am not measuring "His" perfectness, am just trying to put "Him" PROPERLY onto the scale of those who want to measure them.
PROPERLY for proper result.
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What is imperfect ?
- Thread starter chinu
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PROPERLY for proper result.
No, because God is perfect is absolute terms.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram :namaste
A lot of the problem here is with the words we use to describe realisations ,
god being 'perfect' , ....therefore we as the creation of god must be perfect , which ultimately is true , everything in creation has its place and its purpose , but we our selves are far from the perfection of god , yet it is gods will that we may acheive that perfection .
it is true eventualy the spirit will leave this body , therefore we are more than this imperfect body . when the spirit has no more use for the body it will leave .
this is a natural process this is how god wills it , it may seem imperfect to us but we are not seeing the whole process we see only from the position we are now in .
and before any one thinks that this justifies any wrong behavior on our part , it does not , the god given purpose of life is to come closer to knowledge of god we should use it for that purpose
this life is merly a minute portion of that process of ataining perfection , of realising god , that is the perfection of life .
A lot of the problem here is with the words we use to describe realisations ,
god being 'perfect' , ....therefore we as the creation of god must be perfect , which ultimately is true , everything in creation has its place and its purpose , but we our selves are far from the perfection of god , yet it is gods will that we may acheive that perfection .
it is true eventualy the spirit will leave this body , therefore we are more than this imperfect body . when the spirit has no more use for the body it will leave .
this is a natural process this is how god wills it , it may seem imperfect to us but we are not seeing the whole process we see only from the position we are now in .
and before any one thinks that this justifies any wrong behavior on our part , it does not , the god given purpose of life is to come closer to knowledge of god we should use it for that purpose
this life is merly a minute portion of that process of ataining perfection , of realising god , that is the perfection of life .
But then it's proper to refrain from talking in terms of Maya.Willamena, am not measuring "His" perfectness, am just trying to put "Him" PROPERLY onto the scale of those who want to measure them.
PROPERLY for proper result.
chinu
chinu
Do you have any such problem ?
Relative to what?
It's absoluteRelative to what?
ratikala
Istha gosthi
more the other way around
god is perfect , it is only throught his completeness that we might know imperfection .
chinu
chinu
Willamena,But then it's proper to refrain from talking in terms of Maya.
We cannot give10th class coursework to the students of 1st class, Thus, those who can understand can understand, and those who want to understand will try to understand seriously (which is expressed through their responses). otherwise its just the wastage of time.
I hope you can understand my point very well
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
I am lucky in that my small sufferings can be tolerated without too much difficulty - I still deal with chronic pain, but it is something that I manage to reduce by paying attention to my body (not ignoring it or pretending it is an illusion) and learning to recognize the physiological signs of when I am about to seriously injure myself or exacerbate my pain.Do you have any such problem ?
Other people do experience such problems, many live with such extraordinary suffering. I am glad that we as a society can support such individuals either with a helping hand or the scientific knowledge that we have acquired over the centuries which makes a real difference in people's lives. The shots which manage insulin levels, the prosthesis designed to allow someone to walk with dignity, the computer program designed to read to those who have difficulty reading, the lighting designed to avoid triggering seizures and so very much more. Technology has made startling contributions to the lives of people who experience suffering, just as society has - a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen, a ready smile a helping hand and so much more.
You might consider these 'illusions' but they have a great deal more to offer in terms of actually solving problems and reducing the extent of suffering than simply ignoring it's existence.
Which is to say that we regard God absolutely, but when we make the bold move of qualifying God that doesn't disqualify us from also regarding God relative to other things.It's absolute
Or we could just teach One class to everyone.Willamena,
We cannot give10th class coursework to the students of 1st class, Thus, those who can understand can understand, and those who want to understand will try to understand seriously (which is expressed through their responses). otherwise its just the wastage of time.
I hope you can understand my point very well
It's not rocket science...
No; you said God can only be perfect if you have something to measure Him against. That statement is false. If you look at the definition of absolute;Noun
A value or principle regarded as universally valid or viewed without relation to other things. To say that God is perfect in absolute terms implies that there is no need to measure God against anything.
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Is God a value or principle?
I rather think you used the word absolute as an adjective. You said, "It's absolute."
chinu
chinu
You said; By paying attention to my body.
But who was paying attention to your body that time ? your soul ?
It means that before paying attention to your body, you CONCENTRATED your soul between the eye centre and thought. Who CONCENTRATED ? you concentarted your soul and thought, And the time when you Concetrated your soul, you was ignoring your body that time (may be for a sec or more), and ignoring your body for a sec gave you that so good will power/ and treatment.
JUST THINK ABOUT: if ignoring your body just for a SEC can give you a so good treatment, than how good it be the treatment if you would have learned to leave it for ever.
I hope you are understanding my point.
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His perfect nature is a value or principle, yes. That's pretty obvious, I don't think you can play dumb here, it won't work.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
I have no reason whatsoever to believe that I have a soul. And since you are suggesting all this is an illusion - that what we can see and hear and touch and smell and taste is not real - you have even LESS ability to claim the existence of a soul (which cannot be sensed - though even were we able to SEE souls according to you that would be an illusion).You said; By paying attention to my body. But who was paying attention to your body that time ? your soul ?
It means that before paying attention to your body, you CONCENTRATED your soul between the eye centre and thought. Who CONCENTRATED ? you concentarted your soul and thought, And the time when you Concetrated your soul, you was ignoring your body that time (may be for a sec or more), and ignoring your body for a sec gave you that so good will power/ and treatment.
I used my mind, my consciousness, now it is true that in science we are not exactly sure how consciousness arises. That is a very valid criticism. However, there is NOTHING which suggests that it arises from some other dimension. Instead, it is clearly linked in some way that we do not fully comprehend to the brain; if your brain gets damaged your consciousness and cognitive capacities can become impaired.
I should point out that I have a condition where I do not feel pain as well I ought (for example I may not realize I have cut my arm or burned my fingers until quite a bit later when I would then feel pain), as a result, unless I DO pay attention to my body I can get quite significantly injured. I in no way ignored my body, I concentrated on the signals my nervous system relayed to me from other parts of my body, the sensations of pain and discomfort and friction and all that sort of thing - to identify when (for example) my back was in a very bad way and that were I to continue as I had been then I would have hurt myself immensely.
If I had ignored my body for a second, I would likely have spent several weeks in bed recovering from the ordeal of screwing up my back.JUST THINK ABOUT: if ignoring your body just for a SEC can give you a so good treatment, than how good it be the treatment if you would have learned to leave it for ever.
I hope you are understanding my point.
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Yes, perfection is a value, but what I am getting at is are you allowing that that be God? Or is God something more? Are there things that are not perfect? Are there things that are not God? Is perfection the image of God?
When we have things that are not perfection, we have qualified perfection, so it is not absolute. When we have things that are not God, we have qualified God, so it is not absolute.
If perfection is given to inform everything, we allow that it be absolute. If not, we have qualified--we have made a comparison, whether we like it or not.
No amount of wordplay or questions is going to help I'm afraid. You clearly stated that it is not possible for God to be perfect if He can't be measured up against anything. I responded that God could be perfect in absolute terms, thus disqualifying the need to measure Him against anything. Now, responding with a barrage of questions and assumptions isn't an argument, especially when it's as incoherent as that. I think you need time out to review what the word "absolute" means and how I've used it in this context.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Actually Sunni56, she makes a very valid observation; the problem if you then do not allow for comparison is that the attribution of 'perfection' then becomes meaningless; if you claim god as perfection, then comparison for other things needs to be possible to distinguish the difference between god's 'perfection' and other things which I assume you believe are all less perfect in comparison to god, they have 'less' perfection, yet are they all equally imperfect? i very much doubt you believe that given your past posts in other threads, no some things are 'less' perfect than others. God's perfection might be 'absolute' or 'total' etc, but then there are varying degrees of 'imperfection' and 'perfection' relative to other things; since perfection can be varied, one must then needs determine how it is that God's perfection can be said to be absolute - you seem to be indicating that it is by definition, while she seems to be indicating that this is by comparison - which actually makes more sense when you consider that you are comparing everyone else to God's standard of perfection and finding them 'less' perfect.
edit: oops so many edits, sorry
edit: oops so many edits, sorry
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