What Is Justice?

[Joy Christ]

Angellous_Evangellous,
You said that justice is the equitable distribution of goods, resources and services. This is not justice. It is Social Communism. Pirates aways attempt to advocate this system on a pirating ship. The illegal governments also believe in such a pirating system. Bring in every one and everything...and divide the booty. The head pirate is called The President, Governor, Prime Minister, and in some cases, Lord or King.Pirates also use many other such titles.

 

[Storm]

I ask again, Joy, what is the source of Just Law?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My mistake. What does equitable mean? Have we acheived it?

Equitable means that the distribution of all of the resources at our disposal are fair and based on sustained mutual benefit rather than the grandiose satisfaction of the few.

Obviously we have not achieved it and I don't think that we ever will. We are doomed.

 

[Storm]

Fair enough, AE.

What about justice in the context of crime?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Angellous_Evangellous,
You said that justice is the equitable distribution of goods, resources and services. This is not justice. It is Social Communism. Pirates aways attempt to advocate this system on a pirating ship. The illegal governments also believe in such a pirating system. Bring in every one and everything...and divide the booty. The head pirate is called The President, Governor, Prime Minister, and in some cases, Lord or King.

It's quite a logical error to equate equitable distribution with social communism... it's so irrational that I don't know how to address the question.

The principle of equitable distribution takes into account work and compensation and trade. It by no means implies that the government controls industry.

 

[Willamena]

Begin by asking how you would know something is just.

How would you not? Remedy is what (you know) makes something (you know) is wrong right.

 

[UnTheist]

I know justice doesn't exist

 

[Willamena]

I know justice doesn't exist

1. How do you know that? and...
2. What does it mean for a thing you declare to "not exist"?

 

[UnTheist]

1. How do you know that?

I don't know what I was getting at

 

[YmirGF]

How would you not? Remedy is what (you know) makes something (you know) is wrong right.

I think justice is an ideal that cannot actually be attained, therefore we are left with remedial action. What bothers me about your righted wrong here is the fact that it is based soley on community standards. What is justice here in Canada may not be considered justice in another country for example or perhaps even in other parts of the country. Communist Chinese justice may not "fly" here in Canada, etc... Taliban "freedom fighters" are driven in persuit of justice as they see it, just as coalition forces are driven to fight the Taliban.

To my stunted thinking, so-called justice is in the eye of the beholder and left unchecked can result in concepts like jihad and retribution.

 

[Joy Christ]

The Source of all living. The Supernatural Ancestral Realm. This is the true source of all things which are truly important.

 

[Storm]

The Source of all living. The Supernatural Ancestral Realm. This is the true source of all things which are truly important.

Not everyone believes in such a realm.

 

[Willamena]

I think justice is an ideal that cannot actually be attained, therefore we are left with remedial action.

That, too, suggest that justice is something more than remedial action. Per the OP, what is it? Could it ever be attained if it is more than remedial action?

What bothers me about your righted wrong here is the fact that it is based soley on community standards. What is justice here in Canada may not be considered justice in another country for example or perhaps even in other parts of the country. Communist Chinese justice may not "fly" here in Canada, etc... Taliban "freedom fighters" are driven in persuit of justice as they see it, just as coalition forces are driven to fight the Taliban.

To my stunted thinking, so-called justice is in the eye of the beholder and left unchecked can result in concepts like jihad and retribution.

I agree that justice is relative to the feelings of the (people in the) place where it takes action, and I in fact can't conceive of any other kind of justice.

Eye-of-the-beholder is not a metaphor limited to one person.

 

[doppelganger]

Justice is the power to bend social reality through language and symbols so that others can be brought into service to one's self-interest.

 

[Quagmire]

Justice is the power to bend social reality through language and symbols so that others can be brought into service to one's self-interest.

There is no Justice, there is just us. And God help us all.

(good to see you here Dopp!)

 

[Storm]

Justice is the power to bend social reality through language and symbols so that others can be brought into service to one's self-interest.

I have to leave for class in just a few minutes, but I'll think over your answer and respond when I get home.

It's good to have you back. :hug:

 

[Joy Christ]

Storm,
One's belief is simply their opinion. A belief can either be right or wrong. Or it can be a combination of something that is partially right, and partially wrong. As far as the Ancestral Realm is concerned, this is not important. Individuals should never be expected to devote time, effort and energy to anything that demands blind faith. This is not logical or reasonable. The Ancestors, when referring to the word faith, were referring to the word which is like faith, which is trust. When they spoke about faith in god, they were referring to having trust in those and in that which is justified and good. Look at the out come of those establishments that demand servitude and blind devotion. With all of the proceeds which these churches and governments have conned and robbed from the naive people, they could have wiped out poverty many, many time over. At the very least, these goverances should be charged with malfeasance, and mis appropriation of funds. Of course along with these charges also comes blackmail, embezzlement, money laundering, robbery, bearing false witnesses, adulteration of facts, murder...the charges could go on, and on.

 

[Riverwolf]

(only just now saw this thread and at the moment don't want to read every single post just yet, so this is just a response to the OP)

Justice is my eyes is nothing more than a formalized version of revenge: striving for all things to be equal and 'fair.' In the natural world nothing is fair; nothing is equal. A hyena steals from a lion's kill and manages to escape, there's nothing to be done but allow the hyena to go.

Way I see it, even if murder is committed against one you love, attempt to just let it slide in terms of extracting justice. HOWEVER!!

That does not mean that if someone murders someone you love, you just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Doing that risks allowing the murderer to commit more murders, placing others in great pain. Therefore it's still important to attempt to find the murderer, and separate him from society so that he doens't do it again. Not for equality, i.e., "justice", but for safety.

In the end, it's really about what's in your heart and not the final outcome.

That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[Charity]

I think we can all agree that justice is something we should strive for, but what is it? What does justice look like? Is it an eye for an eye, or is that outdated? If it's outdated, what do you think has or should have replaced it?

Justice for me would be personal vindication that at least an attempt was made to rectify a wrong. There would be no way to bring back a person that was murdered but I think I could rest knowing that at least the killer didn't go free.

 

[lunamoth]

I have to go with a combination of Sunstone's and AE's answers. Justice is something mainly known when it is lost and results in injustice. Justice can't really be regained after the injury has been inflicted. When there is injustice I agree that remediation is important, but it is only one part of a process. For the most complete healing, I think forgiveness and love need to go along with remediation. Obviously those two things can't be forced, and it's not very welcome advice to tell a victim that the first thing needed is to forgive the offender, regardless of whether they show any remorse (no wonder Jesus was killed). And that falls short of telling the victim they need to love the offender. :run:

Oh boy, you are thinking, luna sure is soft on crime. All of the above is not to say that I don't think people should be put in jail or have no consequence for hurting others. I agree with putting people in jail, and rapists and child molesters get off far too easy too often I think. What! How does that jive with what I said above?

Even if forgiven, even if everyone involved wishes for the best possible outcome for the offender, unless the offender really repents and changes his or her ways (and if he or she is capable of doing so), they should not be trusted or allowed to be in a position to continue their harmful behavior. Wouldn't it be great if we could solve all the social ills that lead to crime in the first place, heal all the medical issues that cause people to be anti-social or sociopathic, wouldn't it be great if we could educate everyone and give opportunities which allowed everyone to achieve their full potential in a way that is in balance with rest of society? But we are a far cry from those things, the reality right now is jail and mental institutions. Unfortunately that is where people end up, and that is where they have to be.

And, because our society is ill, the reality seems to be that the threat of punishment for crime deters some portion of harm.