What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

[Pegg]

I think you would have to back this statement up with some kind of facts.

the countless murders in the bible including genocide that happend time and time again.

the countless murders after the bible was written

the countles deaths happening right now with christians stance on conterceptives in africa where 1 in 4 has aids and overpopulation is rampant

“By painful experience we have learnt that rational thinking does not suffice to solve the problems of our social life. Penetrating research and keen scientific work have often had tragic implications for mankind, . . . creating the means for his own mass destruction. This, indeed, is a tragedy of overwhelming poignancy!” Albert Einstien wrote this in “A Message to Intellectuals,” back in 1948

since then we've had science experimenting with bombs that have released huge amounts of radiation into our atmosphere, created terrible biological and chemical weapons that have been used in warfare and have produced diseases and deformities in millions. They have secretly experimented with radiation on scores of military men and women without their consent or knowledge
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was spread by a hormone treatment given to infertile women...it was made from the perpituary glands of cadavers in the same way many immunizations are created - from dead monkey's. These are just a few examples of how science and reason have proved to be dangerous even in the right hands.

 

[Pegg]

I agree that was cruel. But how do you derive eugenics from using reason?

the reasoning was noble enough ... it was to improve human health by weeding out the ones who carried degenerative diseases in their genes. Stop them from 'breeding' so that the stronger of the species can improve the health of everyone

it was largely based on darwins ideas of 'survival of the fittest'

but it is terribly inhuman to deliberately make someone whom you consider to be mentally or physically inferior infertile. To take control of a weaker human is inhumane.

faith moves us to care for the lives of the weaker ones whereas reason moved them to destroy the weaker ones.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Doubt is certainly important but it does not lead away from error towards truth, it merely leads away. Reason leads us away from error towards truth, or at least a version of it. Doubt for doubts sake leads to nothing.

Doubt for doubt's sake leads to nothing, nothing but a masturbatory overuse of the intellect.

 

[Midnight Pete]

“By painful experience we have learnt that rational thinking does not suffice to solve the problems of our social life. Penetrating research and keen scientific work have often had tragic implications for mankind, . . . creating the means for his own mass destruction. This, indeed, is a tragedy of overwhelming poignancy!” Albert Einstien wrote this in “A Message to Intellectuals,” back in 1948

since then we've had science experimenting with bombs that have released huge amounts of radiation into our atmosphere, created terrible biological and chemical weapons that have been used in warfare and have produced diseases and deformities in millions. They have secretly experimented with radiation on scores of military men and women without their consent or knowledge
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was spread by a hormone treatment given to infertile women...it was made from the perpituary glands of cadavers in the same way many immunizations are created - from dead monkey's. These are just a few examples of how science and reason have proved to be dangerous even in the right hands.

Or the wrong hands.

Science can easily be used to serve mankind's darkest fantasies and most bloodthirsty ambitions. Knowledge is power and power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And yet science has given us countless miracles, improved our lives and saved lives altogether. Witness the duality of man.

 

[outhouse]

“By painful experience we have learnt that rational thinking does not suffice to solve the problems of our social life. Penetrating research and keen scientific work have often had tragic implications for mankind, . . . creating the means for his own mass destruction. This, indeed, is a tragedy of overwhelming poignancy!” Albert Einstien wrote this in “A Message to Intellectuals,” back in 1948

since then we've had science experimenting with bombs that have released huge amounts of radiation into our atmosphere, created terrible biological and chemical weapons that have been used in warfare and have produced diseases and deformities in millions. They have secretly experimented with radiation on scores of military men and women without their consent or knowledge
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was spread by a hormone treatment given to infertile women...it was made from the perpituary glands of cadavers in the same way many immunizations are created - from dead monkey's. These are just a few examples of how science and reason have proved to be dangerous even in the right hands.

talking about the fear of the atomic age does not back up your previous statement if anything it goes against facts.

without us dropping the bombs on japan countless thousand more would have died. This isnt up for debate.

still waiting for a rational answer for backing up your statement

 

[Pegg]

talking about the fear of the atomic age does not back up your previous statement if anything it goes against facts.

without us dropping the bombs on japan countless thousand more would have died. This isnt up for debate.

still waiting for a rational answer for backing up your statement

right, so science can do anything they like, produce anything they like and how they choose to use their inventions is not up for debate.

they have free reign and we are the guinea pigs

ok i think i understand now....we can question faith but not reason.

 

[crocusj]

Doubt for doubt's sake leads to nothing, nothing but a masturbatory overuse of the intellect.

Ah...if only I were still young for masturbatory overuse...hold on a minute, though...

 

[Pegg]

Or the wrong hands.

Science can easily be used to serve mankind's darkest fantasies and most bloodthirsty ambitions. Knowledge is power and power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And yet science has given us countless miracles, improved our lives and saved lives altogether. Witness the duality of man.

yes, read outhouse's comments for further information on the superiority of science. We are to follow and obey and not question it.

Like all great religions

 

[Revoltingest]

yes, read outhouse's comments for further information on the superiority of science. We are to follow and obey and not question it.

Follow science? Just what does it direct us to do?

 

[Midnight Pete]

ok i think i understand now....we can question faith but not reason.

Exactly.

That is how Scientism works as a religion.

 

[Pegg]

Follow science? Just what does it direct us to do?

take this tablet and trust me, im a scientist

 

[Revoltingest]

take this tablet and trust me, im a scientist

Hah! I don't see no steenk'n slide rule.

 

[crocusj]

faith moves us to care for the lives of the weaker ones whereas reason moved them to destroy the weaker ones.

Speak for yourself, mate. Morality and not faith moves me to defend the weak, I need no god to remind me, I need no threat of damnation to remind me and I need nothing more than my humanity to know that science and reason are the mechanisms by which the weaker among us might survive. I have no faith and yet I am moved, I am sorry for you and those you might help that you require faith before you can act.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Faith needs reason to temper it ... reason needs faith to inspire it.

Kinda like that famous quote by Einstein.

 

[waitasec]

"Because I just do" isn't a valid justification, though, any more than "because I just said so" would be.

justification is subjective

 

[Revoltingest]

Faith needs reason to temper it ... reason needs faith to inspire it.

Reason needs faith in exactly the same way a fish needs a bicycle.

 

[Dan4reason]

Exactly.

That is how Scientism works as a religion.

I surfed the internet to see what people define sciencism to be. Sciencism does not have any supernatural beliefs, and it bases its ideas on arguments and evidence. Sciencism seems to argue that we should rely on science to answer human questions excluding religion and philosophy. The reason they believe this is that religion does not uncover truth in any conceivable way. They make arguments that philosophy is inferior to science because even though it is logical, it is not rigorous enough when it comes to evidence.

I disagree with sciencism because philosophy can be used to answer questions about justice and the like. Sciencism admits that the scientific method is flawed but it argues that it is the best we got. I do not see how it is a religion.

 

[Dan4reason]

right, so science can do anything they like, produce anything they like and how they choose to use their inventions is not up for debate.

they have free reign and we are the guinea pigs

ok i think i understand now....we can question faith but not reason.

Reason is a process we use to find the truth or to discover beneficial courses of action. The philosophy that scientists should have free reign even to dangerous extents is simply an idea and is itself open to critical analysis. This philosophy is not a good example reason because I think it defies reason.

 

[darkendless]

right, so science can do anything they like, produce anything they like and how they choose to use their inventions is not up for debate.

they have free reign and we are the guinea pigs

ok i think i understand now....we can question faith but not reason.

Why do people always come up with the strange assumption that without faith science is free to do what it wants and will turn evil?

Morals and reasoning keeps science under control, faith is the one kicking and screaming when it actually understands what's going on.

 

[Pegg]

Reason is a process we use to find the truth or to discover beneficial courses of action. The philosophy that scientists should have free reign even to dangerous extents is simply an idea and is itself open to critical analysis. This philosophy is not a good example reason because I think it defies reason.

and yet its the reality of today's world

we are given all sorts of things by science...we use them without question. We spray our food with herbicides, wash ourselves in chemicals we cannot pronounce, eat foods prepared with ingredients we have no idea of, burn fuels we know to be doing damage to our environment, use gadgets that may be increasing our risk of developing cancers....

we put a lot of faith in science.