What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

[England my lionheart]

For the most part faith flies in the face of reason,an example of this is the Pope and the Condom

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I think the bench mark for the strength of someone's faith is the height they believe they can jump off without getting hurt, so someone who believes they can jump from the top floor the Empire State Building without being hurt has a lot more faith than someone who only believes he only can jump from the first floor without being hurt.

 

[blackout]

I think the bench mark for the strength of someone's faith is the height they believe they can jump off without getting hurt, so someone who believes they can jump from the top floor the Empire State Building without being hurt has a lot more faith than someone who only believes he only can jump from the first floor without being hurt.

But you know, "Don't put god to the test" and all of that....

 

[waitasec]

But you know, "Don't put god to the test" and all of that....

i thought that too but then since we are talking about faith....
faith without works is dead
james 2...

so what are ya gonna do


jump to prove your faith.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Without faith, we have only doubt.
Without hope, we have only despair.

Doubt and despair are corrosive and ultimately destructive to human life.

 

[Tristesse]

Without faith, we have only doubt.
Without hope, we have only despair.

Doubt and despair are corrosive and ultimately destructive to human life.

Can you demonstrate that without faith we have doubt? And can you also demonstrate that doubt is corrosive to humankind?

I would say that doubt drives inquisitive investigation of the truth. And therefore is a good and useful necessity for humans.

 

[Penumbra]

Without faith, we have only doubt.
Without hope, we have only despair.

Doubt and despair are corrosive and ultimately destructive to human life.

Doubt is important. It's what leads away from error and towards truth. It's good to doubt things that do not have enough support.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Can you demonstrate that without faith we have doubt? And can you also demonstrate that doubt is corrosive to humankind?

I would say that doubt drives inquisitive investigation of the truth. And therefore is a good and useful necessity for humans.

Faith, Hope, Love.

Without these three, the human spirit shrivels up and dies. The body cannot live for want of these things. If the spirit dies, the body is soon to follow. People who commit attempt suicide or rely on drugs to cope with life are proof of this. I'm apalled at the level of emotional detachment I find in other members on these boards. All the head-knowledge in the world can't save you from certain things.

 

[Willamena]

i thought that too but then since we are talking about faith....
faith without works is dead
james 2...

so what are ya gonna do


jump to prove your faith.

We jump from the highest height every single moment of every day.

Most people mistake it for having their feet on the ground.

 

[waitasec]

Without faith, we have only doubt.
Without hope, we have only despair.

Doubt and despair are corrosive and ultimately destructive to human life.

it is reasonable to have hope, the desire for good
it is unreasonable to have faith, belief in the unseen
for example;
my husband has a habit, for the last 15 yrs, of loosing his keys
i have faith, by reason of insanity, one day he will learn to put his keys where he can find them

 

[Willamena]

Doubt is important. It's what leads away from error and towards truth. It's good to doubt things that do not have enough support.

It's better to doubt things that do.

 

[waitasec]

We jump from the highest height every single moment of every day.

Most people mistake it for having their feet on the ground.

i agree, but it is manufacturing the consent of faith
for instance;
we have faith (unreasonably) that johnson and johnson would not knowingly put contaminated tylenol on the shelves...

 

[Jeremiah]

You're absolutely right down to 100%. As I said before, make the least ammount of assumptions. If you and I are waiting on a bus, and I say "I have a feeling the bus will come in ten minutes!" and you say "Um, hate to burst your bubble, but the time table says we're gonna be hanging around here for at least an hour.", it takes far less assumptions to go with your story.

This is the only point I've been making. Occam's razor's awesome!

Yep, starting out your reasoning with an assumption really isn't the best thing to do.

If you form a conclusion from available evidence, logic, and reason then you did not draw it without proof. That is not a belief of faith, that is a reasonable conclusion. If you make an assumption, if it is determined off evidence, logic and reason, then regardless that is is an assumption it is still done so with proof.

 

[Jeremiah]

Without faith, we have only doubt.
Without hope, we have only despair.

Doubt and despair are corrosive and ultimately destructive to human life.

Doubt is the path to wisdom and happiness is a discipline.

But I like how you treat "faith" as if it is a drug. As if you need a cheap fix in order to have confidence and feel good.

 

[waitasec]

Faith, Hope, Love.

Without these three, the human spirit shrivels up and dies. The body cannot live for want of these things. If the spirit dies, the body is soon to follow. People who commit attempt suicide or rely on drugs to cope with life are proof of this. I'm apalled at the level of emotional detachment I find in other members on these boards. All the head-knowledge in the world can't save you from certain things.

love and hope doesn't mean anything unless understood through reason...

 

[strikeviperMKII]

love and hope doesn't mean anything unless understood through reason...

You can love and hope without having a reason, or even being able to understand either rationally. It is true, however, that these terms really don't mean anything until you try to understand them. You won't ever completely understand it, but until you try, you won't get anywhere beyond the initial decision.

 

[waitasec]

You can love and hope without having a reason, or even being able to understand either rationally. It is true, however, that these terms really don't mean anything until you try to understand them. You won't ever completely understand it, but until you try, you won't get anywhere beyond the initial decision.

the reason why >>> your interpretation

we reason within ourselves >>> my interpretation

here we see the same word used differently so when you say

You can love and hope without having a reason

does not really apply to

love and hope doesn't mean anything unless understood through reason

but i can understand, or reason within myself, why the misunderstanding

 

[PolyHedral]

It's better to doubt things that do.

Why? Doubting the things that are supported just means you're endlessly looking for support.

 

[nrg]

If you form a conclusion from available evidence, logic, and reason then you did not draw it without proof. That is not a belief of faith, that is a reasonable conclusion. If you make an assumption, if it is determined off evidence, logic and reason, then regardless that is is an assumption it is still done so with proof.

Yes, but you need to have faith that the system is consistent. It's impossible for a system to prove itself. It's even impossible to prove that mathematics is consistent, complete and true. You need faith, albeit a small ammount, but you still need it.

However, if your point is that you should call the conlcuiosn reasonable because you used strictly more reason than faith, I don't object to that.

 

[Tristesse]

Faith, Hope, Love.

Without these three, the human spirit shrivels up and dies. The body cannot live for want of these things. If the spirit dies, the body is soon to follow. People who commit attempt suicide or rely on drugs to cope with life are proof of this. I'm apalled at the level of emotional detachment I find in other members on these boards. All the head-knowledge in the world can't save you from certain things.

Ok, these are assertions, not evidence. I agree that hope and love play important roles in human interactions, but I don't see that faith plays any role in the betterment of an individual, and in fact I would argue that faith can be damaging to an individuals sense to cope with reality.