What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

[Magic Man]

I get it all that matters is your belief. My belief that I have faith is wrong in writting a book book because you say so.

Apparently, you still haven't understood what I'm saying. Your faith in your ability to write a book is not belief without evidence; it's trust or confidence, a very different thing.

Wilkipedia is wrong because you don't agree.

No, Wiki is wrong probably because it was written by people who don't have a good grasp on faith.

Unless you can prove either it can be said that you have unshakable faith(belief without evidence) in reason.

Unless I can prove either what? What are you talking about? Is it that hard to answer questions? What achievements has faith given us? I've asked quite a few times, and gotten several failed answers. I'm still waiting for a good one.

And no, I don't have unshakable faith in reason. I understand that reason is how we advance, and faith does nothing for us at all.

 

[Magic Man]

And, how come when a theist does it; it's equivocating? But when an atheist does it, it is justification through reason? What's that all about?

I don't know what that's all about. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Magic Man]

Mother Tereasa saving hundreds of thousands of children and adults in India on pure faith alone. I forgot I read her biography pretty amazing.

As a child she believed she had a calling from god. Her parents were against.
As a nun she believed god called her to help the poor in india. The church was against. She says it was her faith in God that allowed her to go.
Everytime she got money she spent it imediately expecting God to provide more for her and her poor.
She had faith that god would provide her with a worldwide nunnery when the church wouldn't. She was eventually approved.


She was disappointed and saddened many times. Pretty obvious if you refuse to build a savings but she never gave up her faith and always believed it was god plan for her.

As a plus I recommend it as a great story.

It wasn't her faith that caused her to do that stuff. It was her compassion and empathy. It was her good nature that compelled her to help people. If you claim it was her faith that caused her to help all those people, you'd have to admit that all of the atrocities like the Crusades and Inquisition and such were caused by faith also, even though they weren't.

Sorry, but this also fails. You missed my whole point before about faith doing something reason couldn't. Reason can compel people to help others like this, too.

 

[bobhikes]

It wasn't her faith that caused her to do that stuff. It was her compassion and empathy. It was her good nature that compelled her to help people. If you claim it was her faith that caused her to help all those people, you'd have to admit that all of the atrocities like the Crusades and Inquisition and such were caused by faith also, even though they weren't.

Sorry, but this also fails. You missed my whole point before about faith doing something reason couldn't. Reason can compel people to help others like this, too.

This is quoted from her Biography
asked how all her sucess can be explained "It is all God's Work".

A quote of Mother Teresa on her work
I take the lord at his word. Faith is a gift of God. Without it there would be no life. And our work to be fruitful and beautiful has to be built on faith. Love and faith go together they complete each other.

I don't know I think she would greatly disagree with your interpetation.

 

[Magic Man]

This is quoted from her Biography
asked how all her sucess can be explained "It is all God's Work".

A quote of Mother Teresa on her work
I take the lord at his word. Faith is a gift of God. Without it there would be no life. And our work to be fruitful and beautiful has to be built on faith. Love and faith go together they complete each other.

I don't know I think she would greatly disagree with your interpetation.

I'm sure she would. She'd also disagree with my claim that God doesn't exist. She's as guilty of equivocating faith as many people here. It's not uncommon. Most religious folks like to do it because it sounds so cool, and makes faith sound like such a good thing, when in reality they're talking about several different things as if they're one.

Now, are you going to actually give me a good answer to my question, or am I wasting my time?

 

[bobhikes]

I never said faith or reason were only good both can be used for terrible things.

 

[bobhikes]

I'm sure she would. She'd also disagree with my claim that God doesn't exist. She's as guilty of equivocating faith as many people here. It's not uncommon. Most religious folks like to do it because it sounds so cool, and makes faith sound like such a good thing, when in reality they're talking about several different things as if they're one.

Now, are you going to actually give me a good answer to my question, or am I wasting my time?

How could I give you a good answer. Your faith leaves no evidence or it is reason and even if the person states and believes they accomplish something by faith it was not faith and you can prove it. They just don't know what they are talking about. If I produce something out of print it doesn't matter either.

Give me some help what is a valid proof. Just type out some thing fictional so I could get an idea of where to look. I know I could find it if you actually showed me what you would except as a proof. If you notice I keep changing my tactic offering something new an you have offered nothing new just the same rethoric. Give me something show me where to go.

 

[Magic Man]

How could I give you a good answer. Your faith leaves no evidence or it is reason and even if the person states and believes they accomplish something by faith it was not faith and you can prove it. They just don't know what they are talking about. If I produce something out of print it doesn't matter either.

You could give a good answer by first trying to at least understand the situation better. But yes, that's the point. Faith is a lack of evidence. If you come to a conclusion without using evidence, it's faith. If you come to a conclusion through the analysis of evidence, it's reason. So, then the question is what is faith good for?

What did someone accomplish by faith? Not Mother Teresa. You haven't even tried to show that. All you did was say she did some things because of her faith. Instead, the reality is she did them because of her compulsion to help people. People help others whether or not they have faith in God.

Give me some help what is a valid proof. Just type out some thing fictional so I could get an idea of where to look. I know I could find it if you actually showed me what you would except as a proof. If you notice I keep changing my tactic offering something new an you have offered nothing new just the same rethoric. Give me something show me where to go.

Actually you haven't changed anything. You give an example, which I explain isn't a good example, because it doesn't show what I'm asking for. Then you come up with a similar example, which is just as poor at answering my question, even though I already explained it. What I'm looking for is something good that faith has given us, something equivalent to antibiotics. We achieved antibiotics through the use of reason. What is one accomplishment like that that we got because of reason?

 

[bhaktajan]

What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

the most important thing for the future well-being of humankind is:
Halting all slaughter of animals for:
a] consumption and
b] for seduction and
c] for sub-conscious self-loathing sadism
d] for the taste of beast blood/sweat/tears

Incontrast we must Halt all slaughter of animals so as to become aloof & non-involvement in sub-human pastimes. Stop conflating of Human Life and human strife with above the pastimes/Lives of sub-human beasts.

If, in the future, our grand-children are "treated like animals" ---know now that this destiny was cultivated by earlier generations in preparation of future generations ---such was done in pursuit of 'enjoyment' at the expense of later suffering "like animals". This is 'ugra-Karma'.

We are spirits in the material world --but the 20th Century was filled with Farm Animal Eaters followed by extreme austerity ---all done to so-called innocents. There is no such thing as coincidental 'ugra-Karma'.

" pain no gain."
"Enjoy now pay later".

Ignorance is bliss?

 

[Revoltingest]

the most important thing for the future well-being of humankind is:
Halting all slaughter of animals for:
a] consumption and
b] for seduction and
c] for sub-conscious self-loathing sadism
d] for the taste of beast blood/sweat/tears

You're wrong.
Reason: bacon

 

[bhaktajan]

You're wrong.
Reason: bacon

If you really want Fanny and tits ---you will get it to your hearts content.

There is room for more creatures in the world then their has been room for humans.

In this regard, "Human life" is polished "Animal Life".

May the bacon lovers find satiation in the stye that swine allure them to; may you become accustomed to their faces and pastimes.

 

[outhouse]

the most important thing for the future well-being of humankind is:
Halting all slaughter of animals for:

No No No No No No NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!


please, come back to reality, come on in the water is fine

 

[bobhikes]

You could give a good answer by first trying to at least understand the situation better. But yes, that's the point. Faith is a lack of evidence. If you come to a conclusion without using evidence, it's faith. If you come to a conclusion through the analysis of evidence, it's reason. So, then the question is what is faith good for?

What did someone accomplish by faith? Not Mother Teresa. You haven't even tried to show that. All you did was say she did some things because of her faith. Instead, the reality is she did them because of her compulsion to help people. People help others whether or not they have faith in God.


Actually you haven't changed anything. You give an example, which I explain isn't a good example, because it doesn't show what I'm asking for. Then you come up with a similar example, which is just as poor at answering my question, even though I already explained it. What I'm looking for is something good that faith has given us, something equivalent to antibiotics. We achieved antibiotics through the use of reason. What is one accomplishment like that that we got because of reason?

I stand by the fact that Mother Teresa did what she did out of faith in God your assement that she did it out of compassion has no proof. Read the book and you will see.

You do realize that antibiotics have negative results as well as good. In fact everything thing produced through reason or anything results in good and bad outcomes.

But to be honest I am not challenging reason I believe it very important, unlike you ;however, I believe faith to be equally important. Maybe some day you'll understand.

 

[Revoltingest]

I stand by the fact that Mother Teresa did what she did out of faith in God your assement that she did it out of compassion has no proof. Read the book and you will see.

Let's recognize that some good can come from faith in this case. But compassion, which she attributes to her faith,
doesn't need faith to exist. Moreover, we've seen that faith can result in the opposite when there is religious strife.
After all, it matters just what it is that you have faith in....not all religious beliefs are peaceful & benevolent.

You do realize that antibiotics have negative results as well as good.

But on the whole, antibiotics are pretty wonderful things. And faith is pretty irrelevant to their invention & manufacture.

Reason does have one terrible problem that it shares with the positive aspects of faith...it is so often over-ruled by stupidity & cruelty.

 

[Willamena]

Let's recognize that some good can come from faith in this case. But compassion, which she attributes to her faith,
doesn't need faith to exist.

Objectively, no; but if compassion is born of faith, then it does.

 

[outhouse]

You do realize that antibiotics have negative results as well as good.

this is ignorant and primitive thinking in my opinion.

You woudl probably be dead or never born right now without antibiotics.

ever heard of the black plague ?

the pandemic of 1918

heres a litel linky for you to think about your statement

Pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

without antibiotics and the CDC we would all be dead due to overpopulation

 

[Willamena]

this is ignorant and primitive thinking in my opinion.

Tell it to the nurses at the hospital who overdosed me. It takes quite a few weeks to recover.

 

[Revoltingest]

Tell it to the nurses at the hospital who overdosed me. It takes quite a few weeks to recover.

Errors happen, but would you refuse antibiotics for orthopedic surgery or pneumonia?
I'd be dead without them. I know, I know....that might not be the best example of good usage.

 

[Willamena]

Errors happen, but would you refuse antibiotics for orthopedic surgery or pneumonia?
I'd be dead without them. I know, I know....that might not be the best example of good usage.

No one's disputing that they're good.

 

[outhouse]

Tell it to the nurses at the hospital who overdosed me. It takes quite a few weeks to recover.

understood, i just feel without them, we would not be having this conversation since i survived pneumonia 3 times.