What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

[Reverend Rick]

That looks inevitable....& ever more likely these days.


Instead of "faith in a better tomorrow", I get by with "expectation of a better tomorrow".

Honestly if you want to be reasonable, we are headed pretty much for more of the same in the future. Some days will suck more than others and over all it may suck less than it has recently, but to look forward to the good times again is really a matter of faith not reason.

 

[Father Heathen]

Reason doesn't care about helping other people. It's self-interest.

Innate empathy is a part of being emotionally and psychologically healthy. Also when you're kind to others they tend to be kind in return. So it is self interest.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes, but the Golden Rule is not motivated by self-interest. It's motivation comes from genuine empathy.

It is in ones self interest to make friends instead of enemies.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Innate empathy is a part of being emotionally and psychologically healthy. Also when you're kind to others they tend to be kind in return. So it is self interest.

Yes it is self interest many times. People want to look good and be seen helping folks.

If you where on national TV and was the million dollar lottery winner, if someone was to ask for a contribution to charity at that moment, you would most likely contribute. If you got an invitation to donate in the mail a week later, the letter would most likely be in the circular file bin.

 

[Revoltingest]

....to look forward to the good times again is really a matter of faith not reason.

Au contraire! I have good reason to look forward. I just don't have faith (as in unsupported belief) that things
will be better. For me, to endlessly roll a boulder uphill isn't a cruel fate...I like rolling boulders.

Innate empathy is a part of being emotionally and psychologically healthy. Also when you're kind to others they tend to be kind in return. So it is self interest.

It is in ones self interest to make friends instead of enemies.

You'd make a pretty good Revoltifarian.....better than I do.

 

[Willamena]

Yes it is self interest many times. People want to look good and be seen helping folks.

If you where on national TV and was the million dollar lottery winner, if someone was to ask for a contribution to charity at that moment, you would most likely contribute. If you got an invitation to donate in the mail a week later, the letter would most likely be in the circular file bin.

I don't think 'how it appears to others' is the aspect of self-interest that was meant. When you empathize, you literally do yourself good --you benefit by feeling, by righteousness, and by synergy.

 

[Jeremiah]

Honestly if you want to be reasonable, we are headed pretty much for more of the same in the future. Some days will suck more than others and over all it may suck less than it has recently, but to look forward to the good times again is really a matter of faith not reason.

Human society is constantly improving, it may not be as much as a matter of faith as you would like to think.

To blindly hope for a better times is a matter of faith. To analyze, comprehend, devise a path of improvement and put it into effect is matter of reason.

 

[Reverend Rick]

To analyze, comprehend, devise a path of improvement and put it into effect is matter of reason.

Yes you are right, but the thing is, if you did analyze things right now, you would comprehend that there is not too much good on the horizon. Things not getting any worse is the only path of improvement right now.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

" You're missing the point here."

You are the one missing point. Religious faith is willful ingorance, diligent reasoning is willful enlightenment. They are not the same, they are not equals, reasons is a better path then faith.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. If you know your logic, you'd know that's a fallacy. In your opinion, reason is better than faith. In my, faith and reason are not opposites.

"be used to support ANYTHING you want them to."

Prudent reasoning will not support anything you want it to. In fact often times it supports what you don't want it to. And people tend to ignore it when that happens, they turn to faith when reason doesn't give them the answers they want to hear.

I did not say prudent reasoning. I said logic. Reasoning by itself is not prudent. It just is. It does not include morality.

"With the right premise, you can make any conclusion you want."

You can bull-crap, lie, delude/confuse yourself and others, but you can not just draw any conclusion you want and have it be in accordance with good, sound reasoning.

Again, I did not say good, sound reasoning. I said logic. If you want to deny slavery as a product of logic because it is not good, sound reasoning, then I can deny 9/11 as a product of faith for the same reason.

 

[Jeremiah]

Yes you are right, but the thing is, if you did analyze things right now, you would comprehend that there is not too much good on the horizon. Things not getting any worse is the only path of improvement right now.

You are barking up he wrong tree. I accept that I will die. That everything I do in life will have no impact beyond my brief passing. I accept that the human race will cease to exist. I accept that time will render all our efforts for nothing. I am perfectly fine with that. I don't worry about such thing. I worry about what is immediately in fort of me, I worry about what is with in my limits, what is possible with in my future.

"Things not getting any worse is the only path of improvement right now."

You would not hold that opinion if you went back a few hundred years ago, when slavery was legal over most the Earth.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes it is self interest many times. People want to look good and be seen helping folks.

If you where on national TV and was the million dollar lottery winner, if someone was to ask for a contribution to charity at that moment, you would most likely contribute. If you got an invitation to donate in the mail a week later, the letter would most likely be in the circular file bin.

I would still contribute to charity, but it would be the charities of my choice with an anonymous donation. Because once they caught wind of your wealth and your generosity, you would have a thousand outstretched hands in your face. If I won a large sum of money I would do my damnedest to keep it quiet and "on the down low" as much as I possibly can, perhaps even relocating and changing my name if I had to.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

No. Compassion is what drives people to do certain things during the holidays. Giving to someone less fortunate or helping someone who needs it isn't a matter of faith. If anything, you can justify it with reason, saying maybe one day the person will be in a position to help you. But compassion is the true cause of that, not faith.

Compassion is the same, whether you justify it or not. You can justify it, but it doesn't change anything. Reason is after the fact, not before. Compassion needs no justification. It just is. Explaining it is unnecessary.
That's why it's faith.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Instead of "faith in a better tomorrow", I get by with "expectation of a better tomorrow".

They are the same thing.

 

[Father Heathen]

Compassion is the same, whether you justify it or not. You can justify it, but it doesn't change anything. Reason is after the fact, not before. Compassion needs no justification. It just is. Explaining it is unnecessary.
That's why it's faith.

But it has been explained and thus it's not faith.

 

[Willamena]

Better than either reason or faith, for the future well-being of humankind: Jumpy up and down! Jumpy up and down!

 

[Father Heathen]

They are the same thing.

Having an optimistic hope for an outcome based on experience, observation and evidence isn't the same as faith.

 

[Jeremiah]

Is this faith?

 

[waitasec]

They are the same thing.

expectation is equivocal to hope, not faith

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is this faith?

No, there would need to be an Atheist behind this man too for it to be accurate.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are the same thing.

Not quite. My expectations are based upon inductive reasoning. Things have turned out well enuf for me over the years.
I expect (without certainty) that this will continue.
I could be wrong though. That happens sometimes.