What is nothingness?

[shunyadragon]

yeah yeah....

back to nothing

You deviated away from the topic by dishonestly misrepresenting Einstein. It is up to you to get back onto the topic and I will respond.

 

[Thief]

ok.....back to nothing

 

[Thief]

Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood. Albert Einstein stated that he believed in the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza. He did not ​

believe​

in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.​

 

[Thief]

just so you know
I believe in a similar fashion

God might not give a damn who you are
but then again......He might.....give a damn

 

[Thief]

back to nothing

 

[The Anointed]

Nothingness is the absence of everything.

 

[shunyadragon]

Nothingness is the absence of everything.

Yes, this is a description of the philosophical absolute nothing, but there is no evidence that this ever existed. Th Physics 'nothing' is the Quantum nothingness, which is not absolutely nothing. There is objective verifiable evidence of the Quantum nothingness.

 

[The Anointed]

Yes, this is a description of the philosophical absolute nothing, but there is no evidence that this ever existed. Th Physics 'nothing' is the Quantum nothingness, which is not absolutely nothing. There is objective verifiable evidence of the Quantum nothingness.

Nothing can never produce anything. If you begin with nothing , you will forever have nothing,

 

[shunyadragon]

Nothing can never produce anything. If you begin with nothing , you will forever have nothing,

OK, you can assert your philosophical/theological belief, but there is no evidence that this philosophical nothing ever existed. It is simply your belief nothing more nothing less.

This is not true of the Quantum Mechanics 'nothing' described in Physics. The Quantum world underlies all of our physical existence by the evidence.

If this is true of the 'mythical philosophical nothing' then nothing could produce nothing, but there is absolutely no evidence this nothing ever existed.

 

[shunyadragon]

Nothing can never produce anything. If you begin with nothing , you will forever have nothing,

. . . then therefore our universe would never have existed.

 

[The Anointed]

. . . then therefore our universe would never have existed.

Correct! Our universe would never and could never have existed, unless the something from which this universe was created has always existed. And that something is the eternal energy that can neither be created or ever destroyed.

 

[shunyadragon]

Correct! Our universe would never and could never have existed, unless the something from which this universe was created has always existed. And that something is the eternal energy that can neither be created or ever destroyed.

As far as what the objective verifiable evidence the Quantum World that underlies our physical existence, and is the eternal energy can neither be created nor even be destroyed. There is no objective verifiable evidence of anything else that may be considered a 'Source' beyond the Quantum World of Quantum Mechanics.

 

[Tambourine]

Nothingness is unrealized potential.

 

[shunyadragon]

Nothingness is unrealized potential.

In the Quantum World nothing is the potential energy of Quantum Mechanics.

 

[gnomon]

I believe the terms for nothingness have been Defined, but of course not in agreement from the philosophical perspective and the scientific perspective..

The absolute nothingness is a philosophical nothing most often used to refer to pre-Creation conditions prior to the existence of our physical existence. It means specifically a vacuum where absolutely nothing exists sometimes referred to as 'Genesis Vacuum.'

From the scientific perspective, yes, 'Quantum nothing' is not nothing. It is the nature of the boundless Quantum World continuum that underlies our our universe and pervades all existence prior to the beginning of our universe, from which all possible universes arise, governed by the Laws of Nature that we describe as Quantum Mechanics. The space/time macroworld of our universe arises from the Quantum World of Quantum Nothingness.

This Forbes article goes into more detail of the different scientific perspectives of may be called 'nothing,' The article is a bit long so I am citing a specific section that is relevant. Forbes tends to be a bit wordy. I personally do not like using the 'nothing term from the science perspective, but nonetheless . . .

Source: The Four Scientific Meanings Of 'Nothing'



The Four Scientific Meanings Of 'Nothing'
Starts With A Bang

Ethan SiegelSenior Contributor
Starts With A BangContributor Group
Science The Universe is out there, waiting for you to discover it.

But the matter we have today didn't come from pre-existing matter. At some point in the distant past, the Universe was composed of equal amounts of matter and antimatter; the laws of physics that we've discovered only enable us to create them in equal amounts. Yet the Universe we have today is overwhelmingly made of matter and not antimatter, where every one of the billions upon billions of galaxies we know of are made of matter and not antimatter. Where did our matter asymmetry come from? From a previously symmetric state; from a state where matter and antimatter existed in equal amounts. From a time when there was no asymmetry. According to some, this means that the matter we have today arose from nothing, although others who adhere strictly to one of the other definitions dispute this.

4.) Whatever you're left with when you take away the entire Universe and the laws governing it. At last, you can conceive of removing everything, including space, time, and the rules that govern any sort of particles or quanta of energy. This creates a type of "nothing" that physicists have no definition for. This goes beyond "nothing" as it exists in the Universe, instead realizing some sort of philosophical, absolute nothingness. But in the context of physics, we cannot make sense of this sort of nothingness. We'd have to assume that there is such a thing as a state outside of space and time, where you can have the emergence of spacetime from this hypothesized state of true nothingness.

But is that possible? How does spacetime emerge at a particular location, when there's no such thing as space? How can you create the beginning of time if there's no concept of something like "before" without time already existing? And where, then, would the rules governing particles and their interactions arise from? Does this final definition of "nothing" even mean anything at all, or is it just a logical construct with no physical meaning of its own?

Fluctuations in spacetime itself at the quantum scale get stretched across the Universe during... [+] inflation, giving rise to imperfections in both density and gravitational waves. While inflating space can rightfully be called 'nothing' in many regards, not everyone agrees.
Fluctuations in spacetime itself at the quantum scale get stretched across the Universe during...

There is no consensus here. With language having the ambiguity it does, you can say "nothing" and legitimately be referring to any of these, with purists eagerly waiting to yell at you if you dare use "nothing" in a context which is less pure than their definition. If something fundamentally arose where there was no such thing before, you can call it nothing, but not everyone will agree. If you take all the matter, antimatter, radiation, and even spatial curvature away, you can certainly lay a claim to that being what "nothing" is all about, but there are some "things" that are still around. If you then take away any energy inherent to space itself, leaving only spacetime and the laws of nature, you can call that "nothing" as well. But philosophically, some people will still be dissatisfied. Only by taking away that as well will some finally acquiesce to calling such an entity "nothing."

© Copyright Original Source

I think Alan Sokal already covered this.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think Alan Sokal already covered this.

Alan is excellent with a good sense of humor!

 

[VoidoftheSun]

There is no "nothingness", neither in a scientific nor in a theistic world view. In the one there are quantum fluctuations in the other there are gods. Only philosophers are able to argue about nothing.

Um actually:

https://www.amazon.com/Fullness-Bud...words=void+and+fullness&qid=1592651305&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/God-Nothingn...eywords=nothingness+god&qid=1592651107&sr=8-1
The Cloud of Nothingness - The Negative Way in Nagarjuna and John of the Cross | C. D. Sebastian | Springer
https://www.amazon.com/Agnosis-Theology-Void-G-Pattison/dp/0333638646
etc

Plus basically all inner/esoteric and mystical tradition within all theistic religions teach this to some degree or another. (also the Qur'an itself mentions many times that there is nothing like God)

 

[SESMeT]

I don't think that nothingness can be anything.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't think that nothingness can be anything.

This would describe the philosophical/theological absolute nothing, but not the Quantum nothingness that describes the Quantum World of Quantum Gravity on Quanta scale of our physical existence. When used in this context it is not really the scientific terminology, but a layman coined world to describe Quantum nothingness..

 

[Tambourine]

I don't think that nothingness can be anything.

On the other hand, nothingness can become anything.