What is odd about the Book of Mormon?

[Rogue Cardinal]

Kolob is not even mentioned in the Book of Mormon, and in none of the LDS scriptures is God said to live on Kolob. Why do you insist on making statements that do nothing more than prove your ignorance.

My bad you are correct....it's in the Book of Abraham and canonized in the Pearl of Great Price.

still....it's CRAZY stuff.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, I have. And It (the book of Mormon) doesn't reads like GOD's Word. It reads like a story with some Bible thrown in for seasoning. The book of Ben Hur is about Christ ----- that doesn't make it scripture...

Yes, LN, but the Bible doesn't much read like God's word either, does it? I mean, is this how you think God would talk?

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

I mean, seriously, how often does that come up? God forgets to tell us whom we should kill or not kill, but takes the time to make some very obscure wrestling rules, together with capital punishment for same.

Deuteronomy 23:1

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

Good to know. How do they check for this exactly?

I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

[LittleNipper]

It make little difference If the BOM is thought by others to be fact, fiction, allegory or what ever.
It clearly helps in establishing the Christian Faith amongst the LDS membership.

I believe it does more to align a group of peole with the idea that the Mormon church is THE CHURCH. With that I must disagree. THE CHURCH is the body of ALL TRUE believers and not a "denomination," or a government.

 

[Autodidact]

I believe it does more to align a group of peole with the idea that the Mormon church is THE CHURCH. With that I must disagree. THE CHURCH is the body of ALL TRUE believers and not a "denomination," or a government.

How do you tell the TRUE believers from the phony believers?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Here is the FAIR synposis of the BoM:

(Sorry, I can't force myself to slog through it myself.)

What on earth could that possibly be an allegory for? It purports to be entirely a history of people who lived in the New World. If it's inaccurate about that, which is its complete total plot, why would you trust it about God etc?

If it's supposed to be fiction, why didn't Smith, or Moroni, or someone, say so? And how does a fictional character get a real son who appears to Joseph Smith, or is that fiction too?

See, this is the type of I've been saying all along......:sarcastic

 

[Katzpur]

My bad you are correct....it's in the Book of Abraham and canonized in the Pearl of Great Price.

still....it's CRAZY stuff.

It doesn't even say in the "Pearl of Great Price" that God lives on Kolob. There is simply a reference to a star known as Kolob, and this star is said to be the closest star to Heaven. Now maybe that's crazy and maybe it's not, but the it's not a planet and we don't believe God lives there. Basically, we believe this:

1. There is a God.
2. He lives in Heaven.
3. Heaven is a real place.
4. There are stars in the heavens and one of them is closer to where God is than the rest.
5. That star has a name by which God refers to it.

Different people draw the "crazy" line at different places.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

It doesn't even say in the "Pearl of Great Price" that God lives on Kolob. There is simply a reference to a star known as Kolob, and this star is said to be the closest star to Heaven. Now maybe that's crazy and maybe it's not, but the it's not a planet and we don't believe God lives there. Basically, we believe this:

1. There is a God.
2. He lives in Heaven.
3. Heaven is a real place.
4. There are stars in the heavens and one of them is closer to where God is than the rest.
5. That star has a name by which God refers to it.

Different people draw the "crazy" line at different places.

OH.....so God moved? Because based off of what I've been reading....God lives on KOLOB which is the third level of heaven with his lady friend.

Depending which Mormon text one is reading Kolob is a star.....or it could be a planet.

 

[madhatter85]

Kolob is not even mentioned in the Book of Mormon, and in none of the LDS scriptures is God said to live on Kolob. Why do you insist on making statements that do nothing more than prove your ignorance.

I wish i could frubal you more.

 

[LittleNipper]

How do you tell the TRUE believers from the phony believers?

By what they hold to be the most important. One can certainly review one's fruits of the spirit. Is he or she long suffering..?

 

[Katzpur]

OH.....so God moved? Because based off of what I've been reading....God lives on KOLOB which is the third level of heaven with his lady friend.

Yeah, but we don't base our beliefs on what you've been reading.

Depending which Mormon text one is reading Kolob is a star.....or it could be a planet.

The only Mormon text which refers to Kolob is the "Pearl of Great Price." Perhaps you are mixing it up with the many non-Mormon texts out there.

 

[Autodidact]

By what they hold to be the most important. One can certainly review one's fruits of the spirit. Is he or she long suffering..?

What? I didn't understand what the heck you said. Say, for example, that you claim to be a True Believer. How can I check out your claim? What should I look for? What is the distinction between a True Believer and a phony?

 

[jabberwockybruno]

Rogue Cardinal, I like you. I think we could be good friends. You have made great efforts to distinguish Christianity from LDS even though you don't believe either, and I admire that.
You know a great deal about Christianity and I'm sure that just like me, you are learning a lot about the LDS Church.

BTW, if anybody can help me I would be much appreciative:
Is there anywhere I can get transcripts of Joseph Smith's sermons? I figure there can be no better way to learn about a religion than to read the words of its founder. If anybody can point me to a place online to download or buy a hard copy, that would be great.

 

[madhatter85]

Rogue Cardinal, I like you. I think we could be good friends. You have made great efforts to distinguish Christianity from LDS even though you don't believe either, and I admire that.
You know a great deal about Christianity and I'm sure that just like me, you are learning a lot about the LDS Church.

BTW, if anybody can help me I would be much appreciative:
Is there anywhere I can get transcripts of Joseph Smith's sermons? I figure there can be no better way to learn about a religion than to read the words of its founder. If anybody can point me to a place online to download or buy a hard copy, that would be great.

Journal of Discourses
The Journal of Discourses
LDS Library: The Teachings of Joseph Smith
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith
I hope you read with the intent to learn rather than with malice.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Yeah, but we don't base our beliefs on what you've been reading.

So you don't read Mormon books? I'm shocked I tell ya.

The only Mormon text which refers to Kolob is the "Pearl of Great Price." Perhaps you are mixing it up with the many non-Mormon texts out there.

Stuff about Kolob was first published in 1842 in the Book of Abraham....which is held WITHIN the Pearl of Great Price which is what I stated in my post before this one. Mormons are split on whether or not it's a star or a planet. Depends on how you look at it.

One part of the Book of Abraham states that Abraham "saw the stars...and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;...and the name of the great one is Kolob."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob#cite_note-10 Thus, Kolob is referred to as a "star". However, the book defines the word Kokaubeam as meaning "all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob#cite_note-11 This would appear to include planets as among the "stars",http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob#cite_note-12 and apparently, the earth itself as considered to be among these "stars".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob#cite_note-13 In addition, the Book of Abraham text appear to classify Kolob as among a hierarchy of "planets".

So I guess it just depends on how you read your book? Star....planet.....the author is like those Christian writers.....confusing. :areyoucra

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Rogue Cardinal, I like you. I think we could be good friends. You have made great efforts to distinguish Christianity from LDS even though you don't believe either, and I admire that.
You know a great deal about Christianity and I'm sure that just like me, you are learning a lot about the LDS Church.

BTW, if anybody can help me I would be much appreciative:
Is there anywhere I can get transcripts of Joseph Smith's sermons? I figure there can be no better way to learn about a religion than to read the words of its founder. If anybody can point me to a place online to download or buy a hard copy, that would be great.

Ditto. I'm learning about Mormonism. Not my strong suit.

Christianity in general....that's a different thing. I have a lifetime of study in that and know it far better. Yeah I think you and I will get on just fine.

 

[Katzpur]

So you don't read Mormon books? I'm shocked I tell ya.

There is no "Mormon book" which states, "God lives on KOLOB which is the third level of heaven with his lady friend." The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price states, "...These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest."

Stuff about Kolob was first published in 1842 in the Book of Abraham....which is held WITHIN the Pearl of Great Price which is what I stated in my post before this one. Mormons are split on whether or not it's a star or a planet. Depends on how you look at it.

Could be, but like I said, the "Pearl of Great Price" makes it clear says that it's a star.

Okay, I'm done on this one. I've stated the LDS belief, and have backed it up by giving you the Church's one and only official source for this belief. I'm not wasting any more time repeating myself.

 

[Katzpur]

Is there anywhere I can get transcripts of Joseph Smith's sermons? I figure there can be no better way to learn about a religion than to read the words of its founder. If anybody can point me to a place online to download or buy a hard copy, that would be great.

You should be aware, in case you're interested, that Joseph Smith gave a great many sermons during his lifetime in which he merely expressed his own personal beliefs. If you honestly want to learn about any religion, you will read the sacred texts of that religion. I'm not trying to discourage you from reading any of Joseph Smith's sermons; I'm just saying that if you these four books (we call them "The Standard Works") would be a better source of information because they comprise our official canon.

The Holy Bible (KJV)
The Book of Mormon
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Pearl of Great Price

 

[Katzpur]

Ditto. I'm learning about Mormonism. Not my strong suit.

And at the rate you're going, it's not likely to ever be your strong suit.

Christianity in general....that's a different thing. I have a lifetime of study in that and know it far better. Yeah I think you and I will get on just fine.

Be sure to tell jabberwocky what you think of his God and that virtually everything he believes is wrong. Throw in a bunch of anti-Christian sources, while you're at it. And may I suggest some of those atheist websites that ridicule what the Bible says, and point out all of its contradictions. Yeah, I'm sure you and jabberwocky will be great friends after you're through doing that.

 

[Apex]

Be sure to tell jabberwocky what you think of his God and how so much of what he believes is wrong. Throw in a bunch of anti-Christian sources, while you're at it. And may I suggest some of those atheist websites that ridicule what the Bible says, and point out all of its contradictions. Yeah, I'm sure you and jabberwocky will be great friends after you're through doing that.

You forgot about the whole sale plagiarism of entire pages.

 

[jabberwockybruno]

Be sure to tell jabberwocky what you think of his God and that virtually everything he believes is wrong. Throw in a bunch of anti-Christian sources, while you're at it. And may I suggest some of those atheist websites that ridicule what the Bible says, and point out all of its contradictions. Yeah, I'm sure you and jabberwocky will be great friends after you're through doing that.

Hey cmon now, I've read what the guy has said. I know what Rogue thinks of my religion. I respect him because he has a HUGE understanding of what he does not believe in.

I don't know many atheists but the few I do know, have misconceptions about Christianity, like they think getting into heaven REQUIRES good works, or that Satan rules hell, or that all we care about is outlawing abortion or making sure gay people can't marry. They have misconceptions about the thing they reject.

I respect Rogue because even though he is an atheist he still defends Christianity, not about it being true but defending against untrue claims about it.

I can live with that.