What is sexually immoral?

[lilithu]

Well how else would one define what is good and what is evil?

Does the determination need to be made?

And what else would determine if an act generates either positive or negative karma? How can you say doing this will give you bad karma or doing that will give you good karma without first some cosmic gauge to determine which is what?

FH, it's only considered "negative" or "positive" karma because you think it is. In reality, it's just karma.

 

[Father Heathen]

Does the determination need to be made?

With our conscience and innate compassion we humans naturally form ethics and morality, and being a social animal it is something we need.

FH, it's only considered "negative" or "positive" karma because you think it is. In reality, it's just karma.

So if feeding the hungry or burning down an orphanage both generate the exact same kind of neutral karma, then why would accumulating it even be a relevant concern? I thought karma was supposed to be a sort of reward vs. punishment consequence to be mindful of when making choices. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, and the resulting karma from various actions does vary and you mean that our perception and labels of "good" and "bad" are just personal opinion. If so, then what determines what sort of actions generate what sort of karma?

 

[lilithu]

So if feeding the hungry or burning down an orphanage both generate the exact same kind of neutral karma, then why would accumulating it even be a relevant concern? I thought karma was supposed to be a sort of reward vs. punishment consequence to be mindful of when making choices. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, and the resulting karma from various actions does vary and you mean that our perception and labels of "good" and "bad" are just personal opinion. If so, then what determines what sort of actions generate what sort of karma?

The resulting karma from various actions does vary. Whether or not the resulting karma is "good" or "bad" is due to our own judgment of good and bad.

But karma is NOT a reward and punishment system. There is no cosmic judge who is deciding that your action is "good" and therefore you get "rewarded" or your action is "bad" and therefore you get "punished." There is nothing "supernatural" about karma. It is merely the consequences of one's actions.

Try this example. If you walk east, then the result is that you will end up more east than you were before. If you walk west, then the result is that you will end up more west than you were before. There are consequences to your actions, but there is no inherent value of "good" or "bad", right?

Now let's say that the place that's more east turns out to be really unpleasant, whereas the place that's more west turns out to be delightful. You would likely make the judgment that the place that is more east is "bad" and the place that is more west is "good." Having made that judgment, you might even think that you've been "punished" for going east, or rewarded for going west. When in reality, there was no punishment and no reward; it was just the consequences of one's actions.

So yes, it does matter what you do. If you do something that harms others there will be one set of consequences, and if you do something that helps others there will be a different set of consequences. And in all likelihood, you would prefer the latter consequences. But that doesn't mean that there was a punishment or reward. Nor does there need to be any judgment of good and bad.

Having said all that, I routinely judge good and bad. (As I told ZZ, I'm not a good Buddhist. )

How did we get on this topic?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Obviously, there are moral boundaries to everything (unless you believe otherwise), but our current society DOES create moral boundaries for every aspect of our lives, even sexuality.

What would you yourself deem "inappropriate" sexual behavior in public? What would you deem "immoral" sexual behavior, no matter what?

I would much rather see love-making in public than the poor starving to death, people dying on battlefields, or a people being oppressed etc etc etc

I see nothing offensive in public nudity or even sex.

 

[ranjana]

No, one can have love, hope, and compassion and still not be bound to the outcome.

sorry to continue the tangent, but this is awesome. the very crux of our actions on earth! it takes a lot of practice to care for the world and everyone as your brothers and sisters, but not to care what the results of our actions are, not to be bound by them.

 

[Father Heathen]

sorry to continue the tangent, but this is awesome. the very crux of our actions on earth! it takes a lot of practice to care for the world and everyone as your brothers and sisters, but not to care what the results of our actions are, not to be bound by them.

Sounds rather reckless and irresponsible to not be concerned about the results of our actions. The only thing that truly separates us from this world and consequence is death.

 

[ranjana]

Sounds rather reckless and irresponsible to not be concerned about the results of our actions. The only thing that truly separates us from this world and consequence is death.

sorry maybe my language wasnt very precise. more like, one must act with awareness and intelligence and decency and we hope kindness too. But 'not caring about results' doesnt mean not caring about how we live. We act with a purpose, but lets say these actions dont give us the desired result, that is what i am suggesting not to get caught up or bound by. it is a new moment, a fresh moment, and act decisively in that moment and every moment with awareness and intelligence, and the rest is up to god.

 

[lilithu]

Sounds rather reckless and irresponsible to not be concerned about the results of our actions. The only thing that truly separates us from this world and consequence is death.

Language is imprecise. It often misleads more than it informs. The Eastern religions are particularly hard to describe.

To use death as an example. A properly practicing Buddhist would not act with reckless abandon and bring about his or her death prematurely. He or she would eat healthily, look both ways before crossing the street, etc. BUT... when the time of death comes, and it does come for all of us, a properly practicing Buddhist would not fear/dread it. So if a Buddhist ate healthily and exercised but then was diagnosed with cancer anyway, she or he would not say "Woe is me! Why did this happen to me?" In terms of death, that is what is meant by "not being concerned about the results."

 

[zenzero]

Friends
On the aspect of KARMA,
For a more detailed discussion we start a new thread on the subject.
Love & rgds

 

[ranjana]

sorry maybe my language wasnt very precise

Language is imprecise.

Already apologized for! No need to be queen bee! :jester5: :kissbette

 

[lilithu]

Already apologized for! No need to be queen bee!

I do hope you were joking.

 

[ranjana]

added smilies for clarity!

 

[Ashley-Yin]

anything that harms someone else especially when intentional.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Obviously, there are moral boundaries to everything (unless you believe otherwise), but our current society DOES create moral boundaries for every aspect of our lives, even sexuality.
What would you yourself deem "inappropriate" sexual behavior in public?

i cant really think of much apart of what i mention below anyway.

What would you deem "immoral" sexual behavior, no matter what?

Any nonconcensual sexual behaviour between matures [rape] and any sexual behaviour where an imature person is subject to a mature person [pedophilia].

 

[Storm]

What would you yourself deem "inappropriate" sexual behavior in public?

In public? Generally speaking, anything beyond kissing.

What would you deem "immoral" sexual behavior, no matter what?

Anything that harms another.

 

[Storm]

What about dramatic age differences, like an 18 year old and a 40 year old?

So long as the couple waited until theyounger partner was of age, I consider it acceptable. It may well be a mistake, but it's one they have the right to make.

What about the mentally handicapped, or the mentally unstable?

Murkier.

Handicapped: On the one hand, I can see the argument that they should be allowed to enjoy as normal a life as possible, including adult relationships. On the other, there's a pretty high potential for abuse. I'd say take it on a case by case basis.

Unstable: Where do you draw the line? Certain types of mental illness? Severity?

Do you really think animals and the mentally disabled/ill can make informed consent?

I'm mentally ill, and I would say I can.

 

[Storm]

I think repressing sexuality and treating it like it's something sinful or shameful is immoral.

QFT! Hear, hear!

 

[Autodidact]

Obviously, there are moral boundaries to everything (unless you believe otherwise), but our current society DOES create moral boundaries for every aspect of our lives, even sexuality.

What would you yourself deem "inappropriate" sexual behavior in public? What would you deem "immoral" sexual behavior, no matter what?

Sexually moral behavior is moral behavior: kind, honest, consensual, equal, respectful of other's self-determination. Sexually immoral behavior is dishonest, non-consensual, exploitative.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Obviously, there are moral boundaries to everything (unless you believe otherwise), but our current society DOES create moral boundaries for every aspect of our lives, even sexuality.

What would you yourself deem "inappropriate" sexual behavior in public? What would you deem "immoral" sexual behavior, no matter what?

gerbils

 

[Autodidact]

Now stop that.