What is the best argument against psychedelics?

[Psychonaut]

So concerning natural psychedelics like Mushrooms, Cactus, or Momosa bark...is there any credible argument to not making them a part of your life and routine? Is there any argument that can convince anyone that any substance changes the human condition any? Jesus said it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles a man, because a man is corrupted by sin, not by plants or meat or by drugs.

Our hearts are sinful, nothing but God can change that.

 

[Reptillian]

Many...many credible arguments...I could write an essay. Seriously, I will write one and post it on my blog if you want me to.

 

[Psychonaut]

Just summarize. If it's health issues,THC, Mushrooms, mescaline from cactus not synthesized, and DMT have no physiological effects. Their use won't degrade your bones or cause cancer or eat your brain or whatever. Tho I challenge you to prove they do.

If you think they cause some kind of mental trauma, I'd say no more than life itself, we all have issues to deal with so deal with them.

 

[Alex_G]

So concerning natural psychedelics like Mushrooms, Cactus, or Momosa bark...is there any credible argument to not making them a part of your life and routine? Is there any argument that can convince anyone that any substance changes the human condition any? Jesus said it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles a man, because a man is corrupted by sin, not by plants or meat or by drugs.

Our hearts are sinful, nothing but God can change that.

Are you arguing that, on principle, anything labelled as 'natural' cannot be harmful to human beings? Furthermore, what does this have to do with 'sin'?

 

[Valjean]

They'll lead good Christians into the arms of Shiva.

 

[LuisDantas]

Isn't the psychedelic effect itself a good enough argument?

 

[Noaidi]

Isn't the psychedelic effect itself a good enough argument?

Not necessarily. Many cultures use entheogens which provide an insight for the person taking them. Many shamanic cultures use psychedelics (salvia, peyote, ayahuasca etc) as part of their regular rituals. We shouldn't see psychedelics as recreational drugs, which is often how they are viewed in the west. The use of entheogens by many cultures pre-dates their use in our culture. In Peru, I've seen the the vine Banesteriopsis caapi (an ingredient of ayahuasca) revered as a sacred plant to be used only by those "qualified" in the use of such medicine.

 

[LuisDantas]

In all honesty, I don't think that you have addressed my question.

 

[Noaidi]

Isn't the psychedelic effect itself a good enough argument?

What do you mean by this?

 

[LuisDantas]

That far as I know, there is no upside for the effect, and lots of downsides.

 

[EverChanging]

If you think they cause some kind of mental trauma, I'd say no more than life itself, we all have issues to deal with so deal with them.

I support the legalization of drugs. I have used certain enhancements to help me write papers, inspire creativity, etc. However, as I have written before, I have come to understand that there is nothing in the drugged state that is not also somewhere in the sober state.

However, your argument is really rather ridiculous. Not everyone should ingest psychedelics. That is one class of drugs I have never touched except for marijuana, which is very mild. And I'll tell you right now: not everyone is suited to marijuana. I happen to be schizoaffective, and when I tried marijuana, I had a psychotic break and screamed as I fell through a kaelidoscope of windows. I also had panic attacks and mood swings, going from extreme euphoria to panic and anxiety. These drugs are not harmless and should not be passed off as so.

 

[Noaidi]

That far as I know, there is no upside for the effect, and lots of downsides.

Depends on the reasons for taking them, I suppose. Indigenous Amazonians see plenty of positive reasons for taking ayahuasca, despite the downsides (extreme nausea, for example).

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I know people who claim so personally. But still, what would the benefit be, if any?

 

[Noaidi]

Yes, I know people who claim so personally. But still, what would the benefit be, if any?

Well, in the case of the Amazonians, ayahuasca is taken by the shaman to determine the cause of illness in an individual, whether the hunting would be fruitful for a particular day or whether a marriage should take place. I'm not saying I concur with this (I personally don't think a plant can give this information), rather I'm saying that the people concerned perceive the benefit of prophecy in taking the plant.

Given that ayahuasca has been used for centuries implies that some credence is given to the properties of the plants which outweigh the negative aspects, and it is within this cultural context that I'm saying that psychedelics have a role to play in such societies.

 

[Noaidi]

I happen to be schizoaffective, and when I tried marijuana, I had a psychotic break and screamed as I fell through a kaelidoscope of windows. I also had panic attacks and mood swings, going from extreme euphoria to panic and anxiety. These drugs are not harmless and should not be passed off as so.

This is why such substances should not be used indiscriminately to get high for fun (and I'm not suggesting that you, EverChanging, were using marijuana recreationally. I don't know your reasons for taking it). If we are to approach the subject of psychedelics, we need to understand the nature of the people taking them and their motives.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I support the legalization of drugs. I have used certain enhancements to help me write papers, inspire creativity, etc. However, as I have written before, I have come to understand that there is nothing in the drugged state that is not also somewhere in the sober state.

However, your argument is really rather ridiculous. Not everyone should ingest psychedelics. That is one class of drugs I have never touched except for marijuana, which is very mild. And I'll tell you right now: not everyone is suited to marijuana. I happen to be schizoaffective, and when I tried marijuana, I had a psychotic break and screamed as I fell through a kaelidoscope of windows. I also had panic attacks and mood swings, going from extreme euphoria to panic and anxiety. These drugs are not harmless and should not be passed off as so.

There's your testimonial confirmation Psychonaut.

And more: Hallucinogens and Psychedelics (LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, DMT, Tryptamines)

 

[Valjean]

The insights secondary to the psychedelic effects will lead people to abandon their traditional faiths. That's the problem.

 

[LuisDantas]

This is why such substances should not be used indiscriminately to get high for fun (and I'm not suggesting that you, EverChanging, were using marijuana recreationally. I don't know your reasons for taking it). If we are to approach the subject of psychedelics, we need to understand the nature of the people taking them and their motives.

I agree, with the remark that IMO that same caution has proven insufficient for the likes of alcohol and insomnia drugs.

 

[EverChanging]

I agree, with the remark that IMO that same caution has proven insufficient for the likes of alcohol and insomnia drugs.

Unfortunately, instead of informing students about the legitimate effects, risks, and even benefits of drugs, they are kept in the dark with cheesy slogans like, "Just Say No!" or only told the worst possible outcomes of drug use. This keeps kids so ignorant and misinformed that when they do have the opportunity to try drugs, they are completely unaware of the risks.

So while I do not recommend drug use to anyone, the war on drugs is a sham, a corrupt waste of money. Non-violent drug users should not be treated as criminals.

Again, this is not at all to say that drug use, even use of milder drugs, is not potentially dangerous. Unfortunately, this is a discussion that people tend to take black and white views on when in fact it is nunaced and complicated.

 

[YmirGF]

The insights secondary to the psychedelic effects will lead people to abandon their traditional faiths. That's the problem.

Bingo. We can't have that now, can we.

Frankly, in my view there is no "best argument" against the use of psychedelics. From my vantage point tho, the best reason to not use them is because you do not need them to begin with. People could learn so much more from their dreams if only they allowed themselves the time to understand them.