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What is the evidence for and against the validity of astrology

Sheldon

Veteran Member
That's their conclusion. But 75% accuracy seems pretty legit.


It wasn't "75% accurate" or anything like it, so again you clearly didn't read it properly.

"In fact, the most successful astrologer achieved only three correct matches, whereas half of the participants (22) did not score a single hit. The average number of hits was 0.75. This is 0.25 below the mean change expectation (MCE), a deviation that is not significant. Moreover, there was no evidence that the most experienced astrologers did any better than beginners."

So where on earth you get 75% accurate from I have no idea? It goes on:

"It is interesting to compare the entries of the participants with each other. Because they all had received the same information, one would expect many similar responses. Actually, the lack of agreement was striking."

 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It wasn't "75% accurate" or anything like it, so again you clearly didn't read it properly.

"In fact, the most successful astrologer achieved only three correct matches, whereas half of the participants (22) did not score a single hit. The average number of hits was 0.75. This is 0.25 below the mean change expectation (MCE), a deviation that is not significant. Moreover, there was no evidence that the most experienced astrologers did any better than beginners."

So where on earth you get 75% accurate from I have no idea? It goes on:

"It is interesting to compare the entries of the participants with each other. Because they all had received the same information, one would expect many similar responses. Actually, the lack of agreement was striking."

Oh right, I misunderstood.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Oh right, I misunderstood.


Not to worry, we all make mistakes, but you may want to read the article I linked, outlining the data NASA published, as it pretty much destroys the idea astrology is anything but hokum.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I believe the generalization is that people bash things they do not understand.
That's pretty dishonest, given I twice linked evidence compiled by astronomers at NASA, showing unequivocally that astrology is superstitious nonsense, and you have ignored this evidence. Is it because you didn't understand it?
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I linked the evidence, you ignored it, then claimed it was not relevant to the OP, (see evasion), now you start a thread and omit it entirely?

Astrology vs. astronomy
Here's the math NASA used


I believe you are comparing apples to oranges.

You can believe the moon is made of cream cheese if it makes you happy, but the evidence is conclusive, and unequivocal, and all you have offered in response in dishonest equivocation like this nonsense, or hand waving. Of course if you want to preserve a superstitious belief in astrology, despite the evidence definitively demonstrating it is hokum, that is your right, just have the integrity to admit it, or at the very least stop falsely claiming that the evidence isn't valid.

Pu2mojgwQnibIrW6uJKD_file.jpg
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
That's pretty dishonest, given I twice linked evidence compiled by astronomers at NASA, showing unequivocally that astrology is superstitious nonsense, and you have ignored this evidence. Is it because you didn't understand it?

I believe that shows that you completely do not understand astrology.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
People are more likely to bash things they are convinced is not true.

I believe I never have to do that. All I have to do is prove the things are not true. There is no need to bash. Bashing shows the person lacks evidence for what they are saying.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Astrology is like economics. It can not predict the future perfectly, there are too many variables. For an individual, his future depends not only on the time of his birth (and the position of the Earth/Planet/Stars), but also his past karma as well as all his actions in his present life. So with all these variables, it is almost impossible to predict his future accurately. But you can predict 'good' and 'bad' periods in his life and general trends during his lifetime.

The question is why should the position of planets and stars affect human beings? This is because each Planet and Star, far from being just a physical object in a fixed orbit, is also a 'God' (some may prefer 'angel' but they are really gods).

Saturn for instance is a powerful God and its position has a powerful effect on each human being (see Saturn return - Wikipedia or Sade Sati as it is known in India). This may be hard to believe for most 'scientific' people, but soon the Christ will Return to Earth and with him, he will bring much of this lost knowledge of astrology. We will still not be able to predict the future perfectly, but we will be able to understand astrology better.


How do you propose Saturn has an effect on people? Through a known physical mechanism or through a magical force?

I was looking at some random readings (not my signs).

What kind of first impression do you think I give?
"The impression that I get is of someone who may be shy, reserved, or maybe even a bit awkward at first glance (Capricorn sun, Pisces rising), but warms up to others when you get to know them. This is because of the heavy emphasis of the elements of water and earth in your chart, which are typically not as outgoing as the elements of fire and air. However, I do get the sense that you tend to care deeply about others (whether it's friends or the larger collective), even going above and beyond for them at times — especially where it pertains to their well-being and support."


Wow. Almost every person ever would say this fits completely or to some degree. This would be considered a hit 9 out of 10 times. The only reason it works is because everyone feels they are so unique and don't realize most people generally have similar feelings in these regards. When asked about what music they like how many people have you heard say "Oh I like a crazy amount of music, I'm so eclectic, and then lists a bunch of modern common pop, rock, metal, and hip-hop


What does the chart suggest about my love life or approach to romance?
"Even though you may not want to admit it (sorry, Cap sun, Virgo moon), you are a romantic at heart. When you love, you love fiercely and you love deep and may even experience trouble with letting people go or getting over heartbreak. At most, you need a die-hard romantic just like you who's emotionally intelligent and willing to dive to the depths with you in the name of love. This means you'll have to watch out for emotionally stunted types that take advantage of your ginormous heart while being unwilling to grow or share the emotional labor in the relationship."

Yup, we all love romance, we all fall heavy (it's called natural opiates and such), breakups suck, this is all known brain stuff. Again, some folks get the idea that being like this is unique and they think this is an amazing hit.

What does it mean that so many of my houses are empty?
"It doesn't mean anything major, except that the houses that contain planets are where more of your energy is expressed or concentrated. Empty houses still get mileage in the chart, often when planets transit through them.

Oh wow, we put energy into certain things and not others? Incredible. It's like they know me?

What do you make of all the celestial bodies I have in Capricorn?
"Capricorn is a sign that is all about structure, rules, authority, and responsibility. But, your stellium is in the 11th house and your ruler, Saturn, sits in the imaginative and dreamy 12th house. That tells me that you're here to make your own rules in a way that looks very different from what was done in the past. In many ways, you strive to change the game."

Even for people who are rule followers, upon hearing this you fit it into your experience. Yeah, I do my own thing! People pay money for this?

What, in your opinion, is the most important, significant, or striking part of my chart?
"I think the overall theme that I pull from your chart is how important authenticity and staying true to yourself really is for you. While you have an innate ability to connect, share, and bond with others, you have to make sure the needs of others don't drown out your ability to fully be yourself."

I knew the last would be the most cheesy. Yes anyone who hears that "staying true to yourself really is for you" is going to be all "YES, yes that is so true!" The "innate ability to connect, share, and bond with others", obviously fits most. "you have to make sure the needs of others don't drown out your ability to fully be yourself."" another generic bumbling that will ring true for everyone but doesn't mean much. It's wisdom that sticks with you long enough for you to pay the 100$ reading bill and not feel scammed. You were scammed.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I believe I never have to do that. All I have to do is prove the things are not true. There is no need to bash. Bashing shows the person lacks evidence for what they are saying.
You've been show unequivocal evidence that astrology is pure hokum, three times.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
How do you propose Saturn has an effect on people? Through a known physical mechanism or through a magical force?

I was looking at some random readings (not my signs).

What kind of first impression do you think I give?
"The impression that I get is of someone who may be shy, reserved, or maybe even a bit awkward at first glance (Capricorn sun, Pisces rising), but warms up to others when you get to know them. This is because of the heavy emphasis of the elements of water and earth in your chart, which are typically not as outgoing as the elements of fire and air. However, I do get the sense that you tend to care deeply about others (whether it's friends or the larger collective), even going above and beyond for them at times — especially where it pertains to their well-being and support."


Wow. Almost every person ever would say this fits completely or to some degree. This would be considered a hit 9 out of 10 times. The only reason it works is because everyone feels they are so unique and don't realize most people generally have similar feelings in these regards. When asked about what music they like how many people have you heard say "Oh I like a crazy amount of music, I'm so eclectic, and then lists a bunch of modern common pop, rock, metal, and hip-hop


What does the chart suggest about my love life or approach to romance?
"Even though you may not want to admit it (sorry, Cap sun, Virgo moon), you are a romantic at heart. When you love, you love fiercely and you love deep and may even experience trouble with letting people go or getting over heartbreak. At most, you need a die-hard romantic just like you who's emotionally intelligent and willing to dive to the depths with you in the name of love. This means you'll have to watch out for emotionally stunted types that take advantage of your ginormous heart while being unwilling to grow or share the emotional labor in the relationship."

Yup, we all love romance, we all fall heavy (it's called natural opiates and such), breakups suck, this is all known brain stuff. Again, some folks get the idea that being like this is unique and they think this is an amazing hit.

What does it mean that so many of my houses are empty?
"It doesn't mean anything major, except that the houses that contain planets are where more of your energy is expressed or concentrated. Empty houses still get mileage in the chart, often when planets transit through them.

Oh wow, we put energy into certain things and not others? Incredible. It's like they know me?

What do you make of all the celestial bodies I have in Capricorn?
"Capricorn is a sign that is all about structure, rules, authority, and responsibility. But, your stellium is in the 11th house and your ruler, Saturn, sits in the imaginative and dreamy 12th house. That tells me that you're here to make your own rules in a way that looks very different from what was done in the past. In many ways, you strive to change the game."

Even for people who are rule followers, upon hearing this you fit it into your experience. Yeah, I do my own thing! People pay money for this?

What, in your opinion, is the most important, significant, or striking part of my chart?
"I think the overall theme that I pull from your chart is how important authenticity and staying true to yourself really is for you. While you have an innate ability to connect, share, and bond with others, you have to make sure the needs of others don't drown out your ability to fully be yourself."

I knew the last would be the most cheesy. Yes anyone who hears that "staying true to yourself really is for you" is going to be all "YES, yes that is so true!" The "innate ability to connect, share, and bond with others", obviously fits most. "you have to make sure the needs of others don't drown out your ability to fully be yourself."" another generic bumbling that will ring true for everyone but doesn't mean much. It's wisdom that sticks with you long enough for you to pay the 100$ reading bill and not feel scammed. You were scammed.

I believe I do not believe that. I believe the universe is in harmony and we are in harmony with it. For instance two people may sing in harmony but I would never say the first person was forcing the second to be in harmony.

I do not believe that would fit more than 50% of people. I am Cancer with Libra rising. Since Libra is an air sign I do not fit into that 50%. What are You?

I believe that is a cute trick. By focusing on the commonality of romance you manage to ignore the particular to the person. Romance is mentioned because the moon has to do with it and everyone has a moon but not everyone has one in Virgo. Only 1 in 12 people have that. Virgo has a caring element to romance. For my wife with Virgo rising she was apt to pick up strays and seek weak men. I am not actually a weak man but I am apt to appear that way. Not sure if there was a relationship of moon to sun but if there was then the idea that Capricorn would want to bind a person to Him fits. My moon was in Capricorn. That meant that I was in complete control of my romantic feelings.

I believe I allowed a professional to read for me once. No doubt some of it was slanted to attempt to get me to pay even though the original offering was for free.
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How do you propose Saturn has an effect on people? Through a known physical mechanism or through a magical force?
As I said in previous post, Saturn is a 'God'. If you believe in any God, how does that God have an effect on people? Saturn works in a similar way.

If you don't believe in the existence of any Gods, then there is no way to explain it to you.

As for the 'readings' that you quote, there are too many factors the determine personality/disposition. Birth chart is just one of them. The best that astrology can do is predict trends in your life - the good times, bad times, best times to attempt something etc.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I believe I ignored your nonsense three times because I can't be bothered with scientific wishful thinking.
It's not nonsense, it's not mine, and it isn't wishful thinking, you had no pretence of debate from the very first, but now seem to have given over entirely to trolling.

Astrology is hokum, and NASA have used astronomy to demonstrate that, sulk about it all you want, deny it if that level of delusion makes you happy, but if you dishonestly pretend the evidence has not been presented here, in a public debate forum, I will simply repost it.

"Astrology is b******t. NASA's scathing takedown perfectly explains why."

"NASA Has No Time for Your Astrology Nonsense"

"Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as having no explanatory power for describing the universe. Scientific testing has found no evidence to support the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions."
 
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