What is the evidence for and against the validity of astrology

[joelr]

I believe I do not believe that. I believe the universe is in harmony and we are in harmony with it. For instance two people may sing in harmony but I would never say the first person was forcing the second to be in harmony.

I don't see how that relates but all those experiences are common to everyone. Everyone experiences some of those predictions and when you get the reading you just focus on the parts of you that it does fit.

II do not believe that would fit more than 50% of people. I am Cancer with Libra rising. Since Libra is an air sign I do not fit into that 50%. What are You?

Which one? Shy, reserved , acwkward at first? Everyone can relate to that at some point. Everyone. We all meet new clicks of people who are closed off at first and we feel shy.

II believe that is a cute trick. By focusing on the commonality of romance you manage to ignore the particular to the person. Romance is mentioned because the moon has to do with it and everyone has a moon but not everyone has one in Virgo. Only 1 in 12 people have that. Virgo has a caring element to romance. For my wife with Virgo rising she was apt to pick up strays and seek weak men. I am not actually a weak man but I am apt to appear that way. Not sure if there was a relationship of moon to sun but if there was then the idea that Capricorn would want to bind a person to Him fits. My moon was in Capricorn. That meant that I was in complete control of my romantic feelings.

"you are a romantic at heart. When you love, you love fiercely and you love deep and may even experience trouble with letting people go or getting over heartbreak. At most, you need a die-hard romantic just like you who's emotionally intelligent and willing to dive to the depths with you in the name of love. Th"
This is all humans. Everyone loves romance. Your brain releases opiates. This stuff fits all people.

Tell me some general things associated with Dec 8.

 

[joelr]

As I said in previous post, Saturn is a 'God'. If you believe in any God, how does that God have an effect on people? Saturn works in a similar way.

If you don't believe in the existence of any Gods, then there is no way to explain it to you.

As for the 'readings' that you quote, there are too many factors the determine personality/disposition. Birth chart is just one of them. The best that astrology can do is predict trends in your life - the good times, bad times, best times to attempt something etc.

Why would I believe in Gods? Now why do you say Saturn is a God? Modern theology puts Gods in other dimensions rather than outer space. So we know Saturn is a ball of gas. I suppose through Spectrophotometry we understand the composition. So where does Saturn get it's Godhood? Are all planets Gods? All the exo-planets also? Is Earth a God as well? The Sun? All stars?
What does Saturn do to people when they are born in that sign?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Why would I believe in Gods? Now why do you say Saturn is a God? Modern theology puts Gods in other dimensions rather than outer space. So we know Saturn is a ball of gas. I suppose through Spectrophotometry we understand the composition. So where does Saturn get it's Godhood? Are all planets Gods? All the exo-planets also? Is Earth a God as well? The Sun? All stars?
What does Saturn do to people when they are born in that sign?

It is not necessary for you to believe in any Gods, although most people believe in at least one.

'Modern theology' - what is that?

Anyway, yes most planets are Gods. If you visit a Hindu temple many of them have an altar with idols for the nine planets where people worship. Whether you believe it or not, the Earth also has a God who manages the evolution of the planet. The God is not the physical planet itself, but a spiritual being who manages and takes care of all aspects of the planet. The Sun is also a God and so are all the stars - there are many temples in India dedicated to the Sun. Saturn affects the lives of all humans on Earth, including those who are born in its sign - understanding the influence of Saturn on humans is part of astrology.

 

[Muffled]

As I said in previous post, Saturn is a 'God'. If you believe in any God, how does that God have an effect on people? Saturn works in a similar way.

If you don't believe in the existence of any Gods, then there is no way to explain it to you.

As for the 'readings' that you quote, there are too many factors the determine personality/disposition. Birth chart is just one of them. The best that astrology can do is predict trends in your life - the good times, bad times, best times to attempt something etc.

I believe Saturn was a mythical god that the planet was named after. I don't believe that god if he existed affected the planet at all.

I believe in Yahweh as omnipotent able to do anything He wishes with people no matter what the stars say.

I believe there is no evidence for that.

I do not believe I understand why that makes any difference.

I believe you are used to generalities but it can be quite specific.

 

[Muffled]

I don't see how that relates but all those experiences are common to everyone. Everyone experiences some of those predictions and when you get the reading you just focus on the parts of you that it does fit.



Which one? Shy, reserved , acwkward at first? Everyone can relate to that at some point. Everyone. We all meet new clicks of people who are closed off at first and we feel shy.




"you are a romantic at heart. When you love, you love fiercely and you love deep and may even experience trouble with letting people go or getting over heartbreak. At most, you need a die-hard romantic just like you who's emotionally intelligent and willing to dive to the depths with you in the name of love. Th"
This is all humans. Everyone loves romance. Your brain releases opiates. This stuff fits all people.

Tell me some general things associated with Dec 8.

Dec 8 falls within Sagittarius. It is a fire sign. The ruling planet is Jupiter. Its natural house is the ninth house which has to do with philosophy, law and religion. I have Sun and Jupiter in the ninth house which indicates a religious person. I also had a bit to do with law because I did prison ministry. My sign on the ninth house is Gemini which means I take a logical approach to religion.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I believe Saturn was a mythical god that the planet was named after. I don't believe that god if he existed affected the planet at all.

I believe in Yahweh as omnipotent able to do anything He wishes with people no matter what the stars say.

I believe there is no evidence for that.

I do not believe I understand why that makes any difference.

I believe you are used to generalities but it can be quite specific.

Just like me, you seem to have a lot of beliefs! So good for you! Everyone had a right to their own beliefs.

However, I believe Yahweh is just a tribal deity and not a God at all and definitely not an 'omnipotent' one -.an angry, jealous, violent person can not possibly be a God.

 

[joelr]

It is not necessary for you to believe in any Gods, although most people believe in at least one.

'Modern theology' - what is that?

Theology from the Middle Ages and beyond where Aquinas and others used Greek Platonic concepts and tagged them onto the Christian God. Tri-omni, beyond space and time and so on. Sometimes people generalize it "I don't believe in religions but I believe in God", which doesn't make sense when you think it through.

Anyway, yes most planets are Gods. If you visit a Hindu temple many of them have an altar with idols for the nine planets where people worship. Whether you believe it or not, the Earth also has a God who manages the evolution of the planet. The God is not the physical planet itself, but a spiritual being who manages and takes care of all aspects of the planet. The Sun is also a God and so are all the stars - there are many temples in India dedicated to the Sun. Saturn affects the lives of all humans on Earth, including those who are born in its sign - understanding the influence of Saturn on humans is part of astrology.

Well yes, I understand Vedic astrology. Earth isn't part of it or any of the far planets or stars. It's definitely considered a pseudoscience without evidence to support it. It isn't in Vedic scripture, it comes from some other source.
So you use Hindu astronomy but added an Earth God?
What does Saturn do to people?

 

[joelr]

Dec 8 falls within Sagittarius. It is a fire sign. The ruling planet is Jupiter. Its natural house is the ninth house which has to do with philosophy, law and religion. I have Sun and Jupiter in the ninth house which indicates a religious person. I also had a bit to do with law because I did prison ministry. My sign on the ninth house is Gemini which means I take a logical approach to religion.

I enjoy philosophy and religious studies. Is that what that means I should like religion, philosophy and law?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Theology from the Middle Ages and beyond where Aquinas and others used Greek Platonic concepts and tagged them onto the Christian God. Tri-omni, beyond space and time and so on. Sometimes people generalize it "I don't believe in religions but I believe in God", which doesn't make sense when you think it through.

Theology from the Middle Ages? Does not sound that 'modern'. The ultimate God is indeed beyond space and time - but he is not a person, so we can not relate to it. Merely because there is such a God does not mean there can not be lesser ones and many of them..

Well yes, I understand Vedic astrology. Earth isn't part of it or any of the far planets or stars. It's definitely considered a pseudoscience without evidence to support it. It isn't in Vedic scripture, it comes from some other source.
So you use Hindu astronomy but added an Earth God?
What does Saturn do to people?

Earth is not part of Vedic astrology, but the Earth is still considered a God (or rather a Goddess, also known as Bhudevi Bhudevi, Earth) . There are many temples in India dedicated to Earth.

All the planets affect the lives of people on Earth, not just Saturn, although Saturn has a more powerful effect. Actually the planets don't 'do' anything to humans, they rather regulate the life of people (a bit like hormones). They will affect the timing of major events in your life - the good times, the hard times, the timing of marriage, changing careers etc. They don't really help or harm you, so much as determine when things happen that affect you,

All this will be made much clearer after the Christ returns (which will happen pretty soon, maybe a couple of years). 'Modern' theologists (including atheists) are going to be very shocked to find out how many things they got wrong.

 

[Sheldon]

Dec 8 falls within Sagittarius. It is a fire sign. The ruling planet is Jupiter. Its natural house is the ninth house which has to do with philosophy, law and religion. I have Sun and Jupiter in the ninth house which indicates a religious person. I also had a bit to do with law because I did prison ministry. My sign on the ninth house is Gemini which means I take a logical approach to religion.

Astrology is pure hokum, this has been demonstrated again and again in this thread.

HERE is another article stating in the strongest terms that it is superstitious guff:

"186 prominent scientists have issued a statement calling astrologers charlatans and asserting that there is no rational basis for the belief.
The statement, published Along with a list of signers in the latest issue of The Humanist magazine, was drafted by Dr. Bart J. Bok, former president of the American Astronomical Society and professor ??emeritus of astronomy at the University of Arizona.
It says:
“We wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.”
The scientists' statement goes on to say that they are “especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines and book publishers.”

"Astrology is b******t. NASA's scathing takedown perfectly explains why.

Astronomers have spent years patiently trying to explain why zodiac signs are not science, and NASA finally seems fed up with the public's obsession with them.

Roughly 3,000 years ago, the Babylonians picked 12 constellations and assigned one to each month of the year. Turns out, that early estimate doesn't hold up to modern astronomical observations.

Earth's axis has shifted since the concept of the zodiac was first invented, so the constellations don't correspond to the same time periods anymore.
"When the Babylonians first invented the 12 signs of zodiac, a birthday between about July 23 and August 22 meant being born under the constellation Leo," NASA wrote. "Now, 3,000 years later, the sky has shifted because Earth's axis (North Pole) doesn't point in quite the same direction."
What's more, the Babylonians completely ignored a 13th constellation, called Ophiuchus, in order to preserve their 12-month calendar.
They also failed to realize the sun doesn't spend an equal amount of time lined up with each constellation, so each constellation doesn't fit neatly into a one-month period.
"The constellations are different sizes and shapes, so the sun spends different lengths of time lined up with each one," NASA explained. "The line from Earth through the sun points to Virgo for 45 days, but it points to Scorpius for only seven days."
NASA out."

Quod erat demonstrandum....

My sign on the ninth house is Gemini which means I take a logical approach to religion.

, priceless.

 

[joelr]

Theology from the Middle Ages? Does not sound that 'modern'. .

Uh...yes modern theology comes from Aquinas? He used Platonic concepts and there isn't much more to add to it. With science the middle ages would be considered ancient. But theology is just made up. It's fiction. So they pretty much covered it in the Middle Ages. There isn't any new information to reveal because it's not real? There are no "new discoveries" in make believe?

The ultimate God is indeed beyond space and time - but he is not a person, so we can not relate to it. Merely because there is such a God does not mean there can not be lesser ones and many of them..

There you go! There is your Middle ages theology. Beyond spacetime, not a person, blah blah.... A supreme God with lesser divinities is monolatric. Do you have evidence for these Gods?

Earth is not part of Vedic astrology, but the Earth is still considered a God (or rather a Goddess, also known as Bhudevi Bhudevi, Earth) . There are many temples in India dedicated to Earth.

Vedic astrology is more of a modern thing. Bhudevi would be from a different branch of Hinduism where Vishnu is the Supreme God rather than Brahman. Where can one see this Earth Goddess?

All the planets affect the lives of people on Earth, not just Saturn, although Saturn has a more powerful effect. Actually the planets don't 'do' anything to humans, they rather regulate the life of people (a bit like hormones). They will affect the timing of major events in your life - the good times, the hard times, the timing of marriage, changing careers etc. They don't really help or harm you, so much as determine when things happen that affect you,

Do you believe this happens through some sort of magical means that we cannot detect?

All this will be made much clearer after the Christ returns (which will happen pretty soon, maybe a couple of years). 'Modern' theologists (including atheists) are going to be very shocked to find out how many things they got wrong.

This sounds like a joke. Or the most epic self-centeredness ever? Paul said Jesus would be returning during their lifetime. So did the Gospel writers. Paul thought it was a waste of time to even marry because the 2nd coming was happening any day. Every Apocalypticism advocate since 2000 years ago has been wrong. Some religions bet everything on it and had to do some serious damage control.
Yet now that you are here and making claims that it's only a few years away, it going to happen. Everyone else was wrong but this time they are your claims. Whatever.

I think modern Christians would be shocked to know the 2nd return and all the fire, resurrecting into a new body and destroying evil and living in bliss on a new Earth is not originally a Christian myth.
You are open to Hinduism so maybe you are also open to Zoroastrianism. Except it isn't Jesus who returns? Ahura Mazda returns.

Do you have evidence anywhere in all of this?

-Zoroaster taught that the blessed must wait for this culmination till Frashegird and the 'future body' (Pahlavi 'tan i pasen'), when the earth will give up the bones of the dead (Y 30.7). This general resurrection will be followed by the Last Judgment, which will divide all the righteous from the wicked, both those who have lived until that time and those who have been judged already. Then Airyaman, Yazata of friendship and healing, together with Atar, Fire, will melt all the metal in the mountains, and this will flow in a glowing river over the earth. All mankind must pass through this river, and, as it is said in a Pahlavi text, 'for him who is righteous it will seem like warm milk, and for him who is wicked, it will seem as if he is walking in the • flesh through molten metal' (GBd XXXIV. r 8-r 9). In this great apocalyptic vision Zoroaster perhaps fused, unconsciously, tales of volcanic eruptions and streams of burning lava with his own experience of Iranian ordeals by molten metal; and according to his stern original teaching, strict justice will prevail then, as at each individual j udgment on earth by a fiery ordeal. So at this last ordeal of all the wicked will suffer a second death, and will perish off the face of the earth. The Daevas and legions of darkness will already have been annihilated in a last great battle with the Yazatas; and the river of metal will flow down into hell, slaying Angra Mainyu and burning up the last vestige of wickedness in the universe.

Ahura Mazda and the six Amesha Spentas will then solemnize a lt, spiritual yasna, offering up the last sacrifice (after which death wW be no more), and making a preparation of the mystical 'white haoma', which will confer immortality on the resurrected bodies of all the blessed, who will partake of it. Thereafter men will beome like the Immortals themselves, of one thought, word and deed, unaging, free from sickness, without corruption, forever joyful in the kingdom of God upon earth. For it is in this familiar and beloved world, restored to its original perfection, that, according to Zoroaster, eternity will be passed in bliss, and not in a remote insubstantial Paradise. So the time of Separation is a renewal of the time of Creation, except that no return is prophesied to the original uniqueness of living things. Mountain and valley will give place once more to level plain; but whereas in the beginning there was one plant, one animal, one man, the rich variety and number that have since issued from these will remain forever. Similarly the many divinities who were brought into being by Ahura Mazda will continue to have their separate existences. There is no prophecy of their re-absorption into the Godhead.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Uh...yes modern theology comes from Aquinas? He used Platonic concepts and there isn't much more to add to it. With science the middle ages would be considered ancient. But theology is just made up. It's fiction. So they pretty much covered it in the Middle Ages. There isn't any new information to reveal because it's not real? There are no "new discoveries" in make believe?



There you go! There is your Middle ages theology. Beyond spacetime, not a person, blah blah.... A supreme God with lesser divinities is monolatric. Do you have evidence for these Gods?
.

Do you have evidence for your 'supreme' God? Hinduism is thousands of years old. Nothing to do with Platonic concepts.

Vedic astrology is more of a modern thing. Bhudevi would be from a different branch of Hinduism where Vishnu is the Supreme God rather than Brahman. Where can one see this Earth Goddess?
.

Where can one see your supreme God?

Do you believe this happens through some sort of magical means that we cannot detect?
.

How does your supreme God affect humans? Through some magical means?

This sounds like a joke. Or the most epic self-centeredness ever? Paul said Jesus would be returning during their lifetime. So did the Gospel writers. Paul thought it was a waste of time to even marry because the 2nd coming was happening any day. Every Apocalypticism advocate since 2000 years ago has been wrong. Some religions bet everything on it and had to do some serious damage control.
Yet now that you are here and making claims that it's only a few years away, it going to happen. Everyone else was wrong but this time they are your claims. Whatever.

Just because Paul and everyone else was wrong about the timing does not mean it will never happen. I never said there would be an 'Apocalypse' - that is one of the things Christians get wrong. The appearance of an Avatar is a normal periodic occurrence.

The God of Earth sends a Teacher/Avatar to humanity approximately every 2160 years (according to the precession of the equinoxes - another astrological phenomenon). When Jesus talked about the Father, he meant the God of the Earth. Jesus, who was an Avatar and not a God himself, had probably never been outside the Earth's atmosphere so probably not met even the Solar God, let alone the 'Supreme' one.

The 2160 years are almost up, so we are about due for the next Avatar. Also the division of humanity into two (sheep and goats) as Jesus predicted, is almost complete. The appearance of the next Avatar is just a few years away.

I think modern Christians would be shocked to know the 2nd return and all the fire, resurrecting into a new body and destroying evil and living in bliss on a new Earth is not originally a Christian myth.
You are open to Hinduism so maybe you are also open to Zoroastrianism. Except it isn't Jesus who returns? Ahura Mazda returns.

First of all it is not the 2nd return, it is the nth. There will be no fire or resurrection - that is all Judeo-Christian nonsense. And you are quite right - it won't be Jesus (or Ahura Mazda), it will be the next Avatar in the line of Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc. But he is still the Christ.

Do you have evidence anywhere in all of this?

What evidence do you have for your beliefs whatever they are?

 

[Muffled]

Just like me, you seem to have a lot of beliefs! So good for you! Everyone had a right to their own beliefs.

However, I believe Yahweh is just a tribal deity and not a God at all and definitely not an 'omnipotent' one -.an angry, jealous, violent person can not possibly be a God.

I believe God has shown Himself to be much more than a tribal deity. I don't belong to that tribe but I get my prayers answered.

 

[Muffled]

I enjoy philosophy and religious studies. Is that what that means I should like religion, philosophy and law?

I believe a sun sign is a very general tendency but it should be more so for a Saggitarian. Everyone has a ninth house and interacts with rules one way or another. My daughter breaks them but then she has the planet Pluto (ruler of the underworld) in her ninth house.
My Pluto is in the tenth house, so I tend to break my father's rules and the rules of government by men.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I believe God has shown Himself to be much more than a tribal deity. I don't belong to that tribe but I get my prayers answered.

Good for you, always nice to have your prayers answered. But perhaps we should question a 'God' who kills 70000 people because someone conducted a census?

 

[joelr]

Do you have evidence for your 'supreme' God? Hinduism is thousands of years old. Nothing to do with Platonic concepts.
Where can one see your supreme God?

Theologians from the middle ages used Greek ideas and put them onto Yahweh.

Medieval Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Here is a recipe for producing medieval philosophy: Combine classical pagan philosophy, mainly Greek but also in its Roman versions, with the new Christian religion. Season with a variety of flavorings from the Jewish and Islamic intellectual heritages. Stir and simmer for 1300 years or more, until done.
During the first part of the Middle Ages, Platonic and neo-Platonic influences dominated philosophical thinking. “Plato himself does not appear at all, but Platonism is everywhere,” as Gilson has said.

--To Plato, God is transcendent-the highest and most perfect being-and one who uses eternal forms, or archetypes, to fashion a universe that is eternal and uncreated. The order and purpose he gives the universe is limited by the imperfections inherent in material.
--Aristotle made God passively responsible for change in the world in the sense that all things seek divine perfection. God as pure form is wholly immaterial, and as perfect he is unchanging since he cannot become more perfect. This perfect and immutable God is therefore the apex of being and knowledge. God must be eternal. That is because time is eternal, and since there can be no time without change, change must be eternal. And for change to be eternal the cause of change-the unmoved mover-must also be eternal. To be eternal God must also be immaterial since only immaterial things are immune from change. Additionally, as an immaterial being, God is not extended in space.

--Augustine developed a theme found as early as Plato, Aristotle, and Zeno of Citium, that God is a perfect being regarded God as omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, morally good, the creator (ex nihilo) and sustainer of the universe.


Egyptians also has a supreme God - "Atum, or Atum Ra, was the supreme god of the Egyptian pantheon. He was responsible for the creation of the universe and the creation of many of the other Egyptian gods. "

How does your supreme God affect humans? Through some magical means?

Here is more Platonic ideas being put onto Yahweh:
"Plato's writings on the meaning of virtue and justice permeate through the Western philosophical tradition.[8] Plotinus, the founder of neoplatonism, had principles that were heavily influenced by the Good. His concept of 'the One' is equivalent to 'the Good' because it describes an ultimate ontological truth. 'The One' is both 'uncaused' and the cause of being for everything else in the universe. Plotinus compared his principle of 'the One' to an illuminating light, as Plato did with the Form of the Good. As a result of Plotinus' school of neoplatonism the bulk of understanding of Platonic philosophy until the 19th Century came through Plotinus' interpretation of it. The early theologies of Judaism, Christianity and Islam looked to the ideas of Platonism through the lens of Plotinus.[9]"

I don't know how Gods effect humans? God magic?

Just because Paul and everyone else was wrong about the timing does not mean it will never happen. I never said there would be an 'Apocalypse' - that is one of the things Christians get wrong. The appearance of an Avatar is a normal periodic occurrence.

No the reason it isn't going to happen is because it's fiction originally from Persia.

The God of Earth sends a Teacher/Avatar to humanity approximately every 2160 years (according to the precession of the equinoxes - another astrological phenomenon). When Jesus talked about the Father, he meant the God of the Earth. Jesus, who was an Avatar and not a God himself, had probably never been outside the Earth's atmosphere so probably not met even the Solar God, let alone the 'Supreme' one.

Someday if you get evidence of any God you can share it.

e 2160 years are almost up, so we are about due for the next Avatar. Also the division of humanity into two (sheep and goats) as Jesus predicted, is almost complete. The appearance of the next Avatar is just a few years away.

In 2 years, which excuse will you use?

First of all it is not the 2nd return, it is the nth. There will be no fire or resurrection - that is all Judeo-Christian nonsense. And you are quite right - it won't be Jesus (or Ahura Mazda), it will be the next Avatar in the line of Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc. But he is still the Christ.

Evidence?

What evidence do you have for your beliefs whatever they are?

I have never been presented any reasonable evidence for anything supernatural. Just claims. And they all differ. Now, here are a bunch of even different claims. Still with no evidence. My beliefs are formed by critical thinking, skepticism and rational thought.

 

[joelr]

I believe a sun sign is a very general tendency but it should be more so for a Saggitarian. Everyone has a ninth house and interacts with rules one way or another. My daughter breaks them but then she has the planet Pluto (ruler of the underworld) in her ninth house.
My Pluto is in the tenth house, so I tend to break my father's rules and the rules of government by men.

So if I tell you my likes you can tell which signs I am?

 

[soulsurvivor]

... Someday if you get evidence of any God you can share it...
....
I have never been presented any reasonable evidence for anything supernatural. Just claims. And they all differ. Now, here are a bunch of even different claims. Still with no evidence. My beliefs are formed by critical thinking, skepticism and rational thought.

I did not realize you are an atheist! I thought you believed in at least one God. So this has been a waste of time. There is no point in talking about supernatural stuff with an atheist. They are pretty fanatical in their disbelief and no argument can change that.

It is impossible to 'prove' the existence of any God. They designed the world that way. The only way to know, is through personal experience, so you will just have to wait till the appearance of the Christ. Even then you will probably say he is a charlatan or a magician (if he performs some miracle).

In 2 years, which excuse will you use?
.

Actually I expect it to be sooner than 2 years. The 2000+ years are up, the division of humanity into goats and sheep according to the criteria specified in Matthew 25:31-46 is obvious to see. All the signs are there.

But you are right, it could be much more then 2 years. The 2160 years between Avatars is pretty approximate. But I don't need an excuse if it does not happen that soon, I just need patience. I don't need to convince anybody or give them excuses.

I am afraid there is no point in discussing God or astrology any further with an atheist. But if you have any questions (other than asking for evidence), I don't mind answering them. But I do want to leave you with one thought - I expect many atheists (as well as fundamentalist believers) to commit suicide when the Christ returns - being so wrong, for so long will be just too much to bear for them. They are totally invested in their belief or disbelief. But it is OK to be wrong, the Gods do not care whether you believe or not. So you have not lost anything. Meanwhile just keep an open mind, so you are not too shocked or devastated.

 

[ppp]

It is impossible to 'prove' the existence of any God. They designed the world that way. The only way to know, is through personal experience, so you will just have to wait till the appearance of the Christ. Even then you will probably say he is a charlatan or a magician (if he performs some miracle).

Every religion claims that their supermarket beliefs are true because of "personal experience". Including the ones that disagree with the validity of yours. If all one has to go on is personal experience, then how do you tell that you are the one who got it right?

Actually I expect it to be sooner than 2 years. The 2000+ years are up, the division of humanity into goats and sheep according to the criteria specified in Matthew 25:31-46 is obvious to see. All the signs are there.

I have heard such predictions nearly every day of my life. And easily every week of my adult life. And Every Single. One. has seen it's predicted date come and go with no fulfillment. What makes you any different from the millions before you who have made the exact same claim?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Every religion claims that their supermarket beliefs are true because of "personal experience". Including the ones that disagree with the validity of yours. If all one has to go on is personal experience, then how do you tell that you are the one who got it right?

There is really no way to tell who is right. You just have to trust your own personal experience and also try to judge someone else's statements/experience by their logic and plausibility..

I have heard such predictions nearly every day of my life. And easily every week of my adult life. And Every Single. One. has seen it's predicted date come and go with no fulfillment. What makes you any different from the millions before you who have made the exact same claim?

If someone gives you an exact date then it is very likely wrong, because Jesus himself said nobody knows the day. Now I mentioned that an Avatar is sent approximately 2160 years according to the Precession of the Equinoxes(PoE). Jesus is associated with Pisces and Mitra the previous Avatar is associated with Taurus. So this statement about PoE is logical/plausible (not necessarily true).

If the statement about a cycle of 2160 years is true, then my approximate date is more likely than those millions who predicted a date before 2000 (including Paul). Now we can look at Jesus's statements about when he (or the Avatar) will return - specifically read Matthew 25:31-46.

In that verse, Jesus says when he returns he will separate humanity into two groups (goats and sheep) based on their attitude towards 'the least of these' (the poor/marginalized). He also says the attitude is judged by their response to four situations: response to sickness of the poor(their healthcare), the hunger of the poor (food aid), their treatment of strangers/immigrants and those in prison (rate/type of incarceration). I would say that one person from 'the least of these' today, is an undocumented gay/trans person of color without any means of support (there are many others). The US is today divided into two main groups and only one would support such a person, the other group would like to totally discard this person.

Hence I would like to submit that the separation of humanity into two such groups is almost complete precisely based on those four criteria. So the time is very close. Each person of course needs to make his own judgment, but the proof ultimately will be in the pudding.