What is the NATO?

[Magic Man]

No doubt it was catastrophic. The transition was rough on the population because there was no plan in place, the situation was chaotic. The ruling classes took possession of the factories, workers weren't getting paid. One can only imagine how catastrophic it was. I'm glad I didn't have to go through that, there is enough problems in my own country on a regular basis without there being a total upheaval. To read into that and to say Putin wants to go back to the old system, I don't know if that is what he meant, because I have read that he does not want that.

It was chaotic but not a catastrophe. You don't have to read into it. Putin is former KGB. The entire reason he has reacted this way with Ukraine is he wants the USSR back. That's why he attacked Georgia when it tried to join NATO too, and it's why he annexed Crimea. We already know what he wants.

 

[Estro Felino]

It was chaotic but not a catastrophe. You don't have to read into it. Putin is former KGB. The entire reason he has reacted this way with Ukraine is he wants the USSR back. That's why he attacked Georgia when it tried to join NATO too, and it's why he annexed Crimea. We already know what he wants.

Are you saying that the CIA is better than the KGB?

The CIA is the one of the Operation Condor in Latin America...

KGB is a saint compared to the CIA.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No doubt it was catastrophic. The transition was rough on the population because there was no plan in place, the situation was chaotic. The ruling classes took possession of the factories, workers weren't getting paid. One can only imagine how catastrophic it was. I'm glad I didn't have to go through that, there is enough problems in my own country on a regular basis without there being a total upheaval. To read into that and to say Putin wants to go back to the old system, I don't know if that is what he meant, because I have read that he does not want that.

Have you actually talked to people who actually lived through it?
I have. And yes, it was chaotic (what else could it be when the powers that be pretty much collapse overnight?).
But "tragic" or "catastrophic" was not how the people in those lands experienced it.

Rejoice and celebration are more fitting terms.

From all angles. I was just watching a docu series called "Gods of Tennis". Every episode tells the story of another tennis legend. One episode was about Martina Navratilova. Her story brought tears to my eyes. Growing up in a soviet state, fleeing it and never being able to return until years later after the soviet collapse. She didn't even know if her parents knew that she won Wimbledon.

 

[Magic Man]

Are you saying that the CIA is better than the KGB?

The CIA is the one of the Operation Condor in Latin America...

KGB is a saint compared to the CIA.

The CIA has issues and has done some bad things, but it's not on the same level as the KGB.

 

[Stevicus]

Are you saying that the CIA is better than the KGB?

The CIA is the one of the Operation Condor in Latin America...

KGB is a saint compared to the CIA.

It's hard to compare the two. I don't think either of them could be called saints. One might wonder whether the CIA was genuinely loyal to their nation-state, or if they were some kind of rogue agency more loyal to organized crime and big business than they ever were to the country.

 

[Magic Man]

Are you saying that the CIA is better than the KGB?

The CIA is the one of the Operation Condor in Latin America...

KGB is a saint compared to the CIA.

The CIA has issues and has done some bad things, but it's not on the same level as the KGB.

 

[Magic Man]

From all angles. I was just watching a docu series called "Gods of Tennis". Every episode tells the story of another tennis legend. One episode was about Martina Navratilova. Her story brought tears to my eyes. Growing up in a soviet state, fleeing it and never being able to return until years later after the soviet collapse. She didn't even know if her parents knew that she won Wimbledon.

Thanks for the rec. I'm a big tennis fan (about to watch the Wimbledon semis), so I'll have to check this out.

 

[Estro Felino]

The CIA has issues and has done some bad things, but it's not on the same level as the KGB.

All right,...let's not compare the two.
But the KGB is gone.
The CIA still exists...and I hope it has redeemed itself. It has changed. Has it?

 

[Estro Felino]

It's hard to compare the two. I don't think either of them could be called saints.

I was using a hyperbole.
But actually after Stalin...I'd say that the CIA outwitted the KGB. It became much more merciless than the KGB.
Because of Kissinger.
Kissinger was an immigrant that really did many bad things in the United States. Keep that in mind. It also damaged the US' reputation.

One might wonder whether the CIA was genuinely loyal to their nation-state, or if they were some kind of rogue agency more loyal to organized crime and big business than they ever were to the country.

No. Loyal to the elitist cabal of warmongers.
That's why the two Kenendys had to go.

 

[Magic Man]

Because of Kissinger.
Kissinger was an immigrant that really did many bad things in the United States. Keep that in mind. It also damaged the US' reputation.

On this we agree. Kissinger was a horrible person who committed war crimes among other things.

 

[Estro Felino]

On this we agree. Kissinger was a horrible person who committed war crimes among other things.

We also agree on the fact that Ukraine should join the EU?

 

[Magic Man]

We also agree on the fact that Ukraine should join the EU?

Maybe, but that's up to them. As long as they stay their own country and aren't controlled by anyone else, sure, as long as the EU lets them in.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thanks for the rec. I'm a big tennis fan (about to watch the Wimbledon semis), so I'll have to check this out.

Yeah. I basically grew up on a tennis court actually. From age 3 to 17 I actually did nothing else. The dream was to turn pro.
At 17 though, I lost faith and realized it wasn't going to happen. Got totally disgusted with the sport and quit from one day to the next. It pretty much took me 25 years to get over it and only returned to the sport last year. I finally can enjoy it again at the recreational level

Turns out it's like riding a bike. You never "unlearn" it. I'm just not the athlete I used to be anymore.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe, but that's up to them. As long as they stay their own country and aren't controlled by anyone else, sure, as long as the EU lets them in.

May I ask you something?
How would you define the European Union?
What do you think it is?

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah. I basically grew up on a tennis court actually. From age 3 to 17 I actually did nothing else. The dream was to turn pro.
At 17 though, I lost faith and realized it wasn't going to happen. Got totally disgusted with the sport and quit from one day to the next. It pretty much took me 25 years to get over it and only returned to the sport last year. I finally can enjoy it again at the recreational level

Turns out it's like riding a bike. You never "unlearn" it. I'm just not the athlete I used to be anymore.

Ain't that the truth. Sounds like we're about the same age. I started playing around 11 but just recreationally. I've played sporadically over the past 15 or so years, and boy, is there a difference in athleticism now (in that I have none ).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We also agree on the fact that Ukraine should join the EU?

You come back to this so many times, and I'm not sure why.

Personally I couldn't care less if they do or don't. I have no problem with them joining (if they qualify for the required standards, off course) and I have no problem if they don't.

But I do wonder why you seem to obsess over that.

 

[Magic Man]

May I ask you something?
How would you define the European Union?
What do you think it is?

Why? Are you going to claim that the EU controls countries now?

 

[Estro Felino]

Why? Are you going to claim that the EU controls countries now?

Absolutely not.
I just asked you a question.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ain't that the truth. Sounds like we're about the same age. I started playing around 11 but just recreationally. I've played sporadically over the past 15 or so years, and boy, is there a difference in athleticism now (in that I have none ).

Haha.
I'm not just talking about the damage of age though.
During those 25 years, I literally did NOTHING in terms of sports. The disgust of tennis made my life turn around 180°
Started drumming in bands, gigs in smokey basements,... and every stereotype that comes with that: drinking, smoking, drugs, girls, irregular sleep,...

So yeah, I have quite some "damage" to undo. I went from 6-8 hours of training a day to sitting on my bum and smoking weed and drinking all day long.

I also had some "catching up" to do I guess. When my friends were out partying, I was training. Always. Insofar as I had "friends", that is.
Competitive tennis is a very lonely sport. You don't have friends on the tour. You have potential adversaries instead. It's you against the world.
But... I regret nothing!


Anyhow.... back to NATO

 

[Magic Man]

Absolutely not.
I just asked you a question.

If you explain the point of the question, I'll answer. As it stands, it seems to have no point.