The point of the question is to ascertain whether you really understand Europe.
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What is the NATO?
- Thread starter Estro Felino
- Start date
I agree about Kissinger, but I think the CIA may have gone rogue even before then. Considering the mood of the country at the time the CIA was formed in the post-WW2 era, it's safe to say that the leadership of the CIA would have reflected that. The CIA already built up a long track record before Kissinger came on the scene.
One key difference is that the KGB was concerned with both external and internal security. They would have been like the CIA and the FBI combined into a single organization, which is what J. Edgar Hoover apparently wanted to do. The KGB also oversaw the Border Guards, which was their equivalent of the customs service and border patrol. By law, the CIA was forbidden to operate within the U.S. (although whether or not they actually followed that law is another matter).
I think of the end scene of the movie Three Days of the Condor, which illustrated a possible philosophical spin on what drove the CIA and others to act as they have acted:
- Higgins : It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Joe Turner : Ask them?
Higgins : Not now - then! Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!
That's oftentimes how it is presented to Americans, if ever there are questions regarding the moral actions of our military or certain government agencies. The idea is that they're working for "our" interests, so that we can continue to enjoy a comfortable, luxurious, and (relatively) safe way of life in the land of plenty.
It relates to a popular theme in Americana where people were chided and scolded for complaining about what the US government was doing in places like Vietnam, considering that they were living in the richest country in the world, enjoying a relatively good and comfortable life compared to most of the rest of the world.
The idea was that Americans should just shut up and enjoy their lives and not worry about what our government does to keep us safe and warm. By the Reagan era, the theme was "Don't Worry, Be Happy."
But given the perception that it's been an awfully long time since Americans actually saw any practical, tangible economic "gain" from any of this, and if anything, America has been falling behind and regressing. Based solely on the results and consequences, one might wonder if they ever really working for our national interests, or just what were they doing?
I don't know if I would call them an "elitist cabal of warmongers," but in the end, it doesn't really matter who they are. If there's anyone to blame, it's the voters and their voting choices, but being the case, I would identify certain perceptions and ideologies which have permeated the body politic as being a part of problem. One of these perceptions I've mentioned previously was the Red Scare, McCarthyite mentality, which still continued to persist, even after McCarthy was discredited and disgraced. They still had Hoover, Goldwater, Nixon, Kissinger, Reagan, Bush et al., to continue carrying the torch. At its core, it's the politics of fear. Give the people something to fear, and that will keep them in line.
Honestly I think that if those élites really worked for the national interests, there would be free universal healthcare, there would be zero social injustice, and every single US citizen would own property.
These diabolical élites do know that they are the very cause of economic and social equality, but they are very good at brainwashing the citizens, telling them that the enemy is outside. That the enemy is in Russia, for example.
So they are safe and nobody accuses them of anything.
They are very cunning. Diabolically cunning. And the people believe them.
No.
The POTUS is absolutely, 100% powerless.
He cannot but bow to them. So...it has nothing to do with the people the citizens vote for.
These élites must leave the US. Period.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Oh, then let me assure you I do. Thanks for asking.The point of the question is to ascertain whether you really understand Europe.
It's a simple question: what do you think the EU is?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
It's an organization of countries. As I said, I assure you I know plenty about Europe. I'm not going to go through a test for you unless you explain a good reason for it.
It's not a simple organization.
It's a spiritual union made up of principles and common values. And those values imply democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of press, rejection of censorship.
Ukraine wants to join the EU but they are so blind that they do not understand that their laws deface freedom of speech, political pluralism, freedom of the press.
They really need someone to wake them up.
I tend to agree. I always thought the whole "trickle down" theory was a bunch of malarkey, so when our government says they're working for our national interests, who's kidding whom? They're working for the interests of the top 1%. They don't care about the rest of America.
Not everyone believes them, although there may be different degrees and shades of opinion regarding Americans' attitudes towards government, our system, our history, and our foreign/military policies. A lot of people are simply oblivious; they really don't know or care that much one way or the other. They take the "Don't Worry, Be Happy" message and run with it, getting on with their lives without thinking much beyond their own personal lives.
There might be a sense of public "burnout" in play regarding the whole business of "external threats." This has been ongoing theme, all through the Cold War and since that time. There's always some threat from somewhere in the world to worry about, and it has the effect of influencing the national security mentality which often dominates US political discussions.
There's always some rogue leader, some madman who somehow pops up out of nowhere, and suddenly the US has another problem to deal with. It's a never-ending cycle which goes on and on, generation after generation. I can see where some people might just be getting tired of it all. It's no longer a question of whether the public believes what the government is telling them.
Well, at this point, it's hard to say which way the citizens will vote. There seems to be a great deal of division and dissension at present, which has been a consequence of the political culture we have. If there is any kind of "elite," the current situation in American politics would be a consequence and a symptom of gross long-term mismanagement and short-sightedness.
lukethethird
unknown member
He wants the USSR back?.,sources please, thank you.
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The CNN propaganda doesn't need sources.
The average CNN journalist doesn't even know the difference between oblast and kraj, so...imagine them explaining something about Russia.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, I experienced it myself as I was involved in a study in Poland in 1991. It was really hard for the Poles, let me tell ya.
His actions confirm this as he's invaded three countries. Right now, many other countries there are shaking in their boots as they are terrified what would likely happen if Trump is elected.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
At least you finally said what you wanted to say. I wish you had just come out and said this to begin with. None of this is relevant here.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
You didn't pay attention to the fact that he attacked Georgia for trying to join NATO, annexed Crimea and now is invading Ukraine?
The case of Georgia is identical to that of Kosovo.
No double standards, please.
Kosovo wanted to be independent from Serbia. Abkhazia wanted to be independent from Georgia.
lukethethird
unknown member
Sources for "he wants the USSR back," thank you.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
No bringing Kosovo into things please. And no double standards, please. Just stick to what's being said.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I just gave you some. If you want to deny actual events that happened, that's on you.
This thread is about NATO's actions. Not Russia.
So speak of NATO's actions in Kosovo.
If you refuse to do that, you're simply hijacking the thread and turning into a anti-Russian one.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think that's quite logical based on what he said and what he's done.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
The topic at hand is Putin's wishes. Kosovo is not part of that discussion. Stick to that topic and don't try any more whataboutism please. If you refuse to do that, you're simply hijacking the thread and turning it into a pro-Russian one.This thread is about NATO's actions. Not Russia.
So speak of NATO's actions in Kosovo.
If you refuse to do that, you're simply hijacking the thread and turning into a anti-Russian one.