What is the oldest religion?

[Nicholas]

Buddhism, Jainism & Zoroastrianism all have a lineage of founders, not just one. There have been many buddhas, tirthankaras & zoroasters. All three pre-date the Vedas which were the basis of Hinduism.

Animism or shamanism is also very old.

So we do not and cannot know for sure.

 

[Riverwolf]

Which is the oldest language ?

What's that have to do with anything? And are you asking for oldest for which written records exist but not necessarily still spoken, or oldest language that's still actively spoken today?

 

[outhouse]

So we do not and cannot know for sure.

Agreed.

All people to date, have had cultures that follow some sort of religion.

Even people with no god, still follow smoke and fire spirits.

I believe religion could go back to Homo Erectus when languages were first developing.

If they could harness fire and make stone tools, they could imagine deities, and or invisible father figures based on instictual parental love

 

[ChristineES]

If you're interested in it, check out the work of archaeologist Marija Gimbutas.

"The main theme of Goddess symbolism is the mystery of birth and death and the renewal of life, not only human but all life on earth and indeed in the whole cosmos."

That would make perfect sense. Even earlier humans, like Neanderthal, buried their dead in a fetal position: Indicating birth.

I will take a look the work of Marija Gimbutas, too.

 

[roger1440]

Which is the oldest language ?

Many creatures have a language. Although it may not be a spoken or written language.

 

[gnostic]

The oldest known and recorded formal religion (as an opposed to a faith) is the Egyptian religion with dates back to about 3000 BCE.

Judging by some artefacts found in Egypt, that depicted certain images, does suggest some Egyptian deities were worshipped in the predynastic period (before c 3100 BCE) were the same as that of the similar dynastic periods.

Take the predynastic city of Nekhen for instance, it has the image of the falcon or hawk, which is usually symbol of the sky god Horus.

Nekhen was the predynastic capital of Upper Egypt. Nekhen would later be called Hierakonpolis by the Greeks. And there was one of the oldest temples in Egypt to Horus. Horus seemed to be one of the oldest Egyptian gods.

 

[gnostic]

Predating the Sumerian (dynastic) civilisations, is the proto-Sumerian period, c 4000 BCE - 3100 BCE.

Of particular interest, is the city of Uruk.

Like many cities in ancient times, a city was built on top of one another, covering the older city. Uruk was no different. Archaeologists recognised there were as many as 18 levels of Uruk, the oldest being Uruk XVIII.

Uruk was found at Uruk XVIII, around 5000 BCE. It is a Neolithic town in what archaeology called the Eridu period (5300-4700 BCE), but Uruk really began to flourish during the 4th millennium BCE, which was known as "Uruk period" (c 4000 BCE to 3100 BCE).

This showed that the Genesis' claim to Nimrod (of late 3rd millennium BCE) founding Uruk, or Erech, to be archaeologically and historically incorrect.

In term of the oldest "formal" or "organised" religion I think this Uruk would fit the bill, more so than the predynastic Egyptian religion, which I had posted previously.

Two areas in Uruk, in which temple complexes were formed in the 4th millennium BCE - the Anu district and the Eanna district. Temples were built to the sky god An (Akkadian Anu) and the goddess Inanna, respectively in these 2 districts.

Anu district was the older of the two. Near the Anu Ziggurat, the Stone Temple was discovered, which has been dated to the Uruk VI, 3500-3400 BCE.

On top of the Anu Ziggurat, what is known as the White Temple, built some times during Uruk III, in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100-2900 BCE).

The Stone-Cone Temple to the goddess Inanna was also discovered in the Eanna district, around same period (Uruk VI). The larger Limestone Temple was built 100 m northeast of Stone-Cone Temple, around 3400 BCE, of the Uruk V period (3400-3300 BCE).

These temples are older than religion that found anywhere in Egypt.

What is of particular interest to me, is the tablets of cuneiform writing were discovered. Sumerian cuneiform were said to have been invented and dated at the same time as Sumerian civilisation, in 3000, but these cuneiforms from Uruk IV clearly showed that cuneiform existed several centuries earlier.

 

[outhouse]

Predating the Sumerian (dynastic) civilisations, is the proto-Sumerian period, c 4000 BCE - 3100 BCE.

Of particular interest, is the city of Uruk.

Like many cities in ancient times, a city was built on top of one another, covering the older city. Uruk was no different. Archaeologists recognised there were as many as 18 levels of Uruk, the oldest being Uruk XVIII.

Uruk was found at Uruk XVIII, around 5000 BCE. It is a Neolithic town in what archaeology called the Eridu period (5300-4700 BCE), but Uruk really began to flourish during the 4th millennium BCE, which was known as "Uruk period" (c 4000 BCE to 3100 BCE).

This showed that the Genesis' claim to Nimrod (of late 3rd millennium BCE) founding Uruk, or Erech, to be archaeologically and historically incorrect.

In term of the oldest "formal" or "organised" religion I think this Uruk would fit the bill, more so than the predynastic Egyptian religion, which I had posted previously.

Two areas in Uruk, in which temple complexes were formed in the 4th millennium BCE - the Anu district and the Eanna district. Temples were built to the sky god An (Akkadian Anu) and the goddess Inanna, respectively in these 2 districts.

Anu district was the older of the two. Near the Anu Ziggurat, the Stone Temple was discovered, which has been dated to the Uruk VI, 3500-3400 BCE.

On top of the Anu Ziggurat, what is known as the White Temple, built some times during Uruk III, in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100-2900 BCE).

The Stone-Cone Temple to the goddess Inanna was also discovered in the Eanna district, around same period (Uruk VI). The larger Limestone Temple was built 100 m northeast of Stone-Cone Temple, around 3400 BCE, of the Uruk V period (3400-3300 BCE).

These temples are older than religion that found anywhere in Egypt.

What is of particular interest to me, is the tablets of cuneiform writing were discovered. Sumerian cuneiform were said to have been invented and dated at the same time as Sumerian civilisation, in 3000, but these cuneiforms from Uruk IV clearly showed that cuneiform existed several centuries earlier.

Excellent post, with knowledge of prehistory.


What I find amazing, is that during this prehistory, Egypt had artifacts possibly with Mesopotamian deities.




To me it is evidence of these cultures religions predating, Egyptian religions, who may have adopted these larger more well defined beliefs.

Gebel el-Arak Knife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Robert du Mesnil du Buisson said the central figure is the god El.

 

[gnostic]

Excellent post, with knowledge of prehistory.


What I find amazing, is that during this prehistory, Egypt had artifacts possibly with Mesopotamian deities.

I would actually be more surprised if there weren't cross-cultural or cross-artistic influences between these two lands in the mid-4th millennium BCE.

The distance is not so great and the lands weren't isolated from each other.

 

[roger1440]

The oldest known statues of the human form are known as the “Venus figurines.” The oldest known as the “Venus of Willendorf”. This figurine dates to about 20,000 BC. These figurines have been found throughout Europe. Archeologists speculate these figurines have some sort of religious significance. These figurines are much older than any other religious artifact found. God was a “fat chick”.

 

[outhouse]

I would actually be more surprised if there weren't cross-cultural or cross-artistic influences between these two lands in the mid-4th millennium BCE.

The distance is not so great and the lands weren't isolated from each other.

Not only that, most people were still nomadic, and trade between the two would have been very important.

 

[roger1440]

What do you think Adam didn't want Lilith on top? LOL

 

[ChristineES]

I know from reading about Abraham in Genesis, that "God Most High"(Adonai, I believe), was already worshiped before Abraham. It is not the oldest religion, but I felt it was interesting.

 

[outhouse]

I know from reading about Abraham in Genesis, that "God Most High"(Adonai, I believe), was already worshiped before Abraham. It is not the oldest religion, but I felt it was interesting.

As far as written history goes.

El is probably the longest continually worshipped deity with the most popularity.

Many of his attributes live on in the bible today.

God most high, was El-Elyon I believe

 

[ScuzManiac]

Impossible to know.

Fun to speculate.

 

[gnostic]

Looking at the prehistoric paintings on cave walls, such as those in the Lascaux Caves, Dordogne, France, they depicted mostly animals, most frequently of equines, bisons and stags. There is only one painting depicting a human.

These were painted 17,300 years ago, during the Upper Palaeolithic period. They may not be the oldest paintings but they are certainly the most interesting.

They have more natural and spiritual significances than religious ones. They (the animal images) represented their daily life, the sources of their reality, as well as the sources of their food and clothings, hence the source for their survival.

I think that the Venus figurines just depicted fertile of women, perhaps pregnant women, not that of goddess(-es). I think it is purely speculation to say these were figurines were images of goddesses.

Like those wall paintings, the Venus figurines have spiritual significances than religious ones.

 

[Willamena]

I think that the Venus figurines just depicted fertile of women, perhaps pregnant women, not that of goddess(-es). I think it is purely speculation to say these were figurines were images of goddesses.

Fair enough, but I'm of the mind that the life-long work of a prominent archaeologist in the field shouldn't be dismissed as mere speculation (in reference to Marija Gimbutas).

 

[outhouse]

Fair enough, but I'm of the mind that the life-long work of a prominent archaeologist in the field shouldn't be dismissed as mere speculation (in reference to Marija Gimbutas).

I would actually take guessing over her work. She did some great things but her analysis was weak and criticized.


I still view these statues us luck symbols for child birth. [my new belief that just came to me]

I don't buy fertility, getting knocked up is the easy part.

Surviving childbirth was dead luck.

 

[Riverwolf]

I would actually take guessing over her work. She did some great things but her analysis was weak and criticized.


I still view these statues us luck symbols for child birth. [my new belief that just came to me]

I don't buy fertility, getting knocked up is the easy part.

Surviving childbirth was dead luck.

Fertility was more than just about getting pregnant. I actually know of at least one still-existent jungle Tribe in New Guinea(one of the last ones that had no contact whatsoever with the modern world until recently) that believed sex had nothing to do with pregnancy, but that there was something else going on.

From what I've seen, Fertility Gods are more about agriculture than successful pregnancy. Granted, those Gods are much, much later than the groups that produced the Venus figurines, but I'd wager the Tribes were still observant enough to recognize the association with rain and green hills.

But since the only context that I'm aware of for the Venus figurines is their existence, as I believe most of them are found lying around in caves among other objects (one of them being found near a flute: the oldest instrument ever found), I think it's safe to say that pretty much anyone with even a passing familiarity with mythology and cultural anthropology(and awareness of the necessity, and effective methods, of research) can make a valid guess as to what they are.

For all we know, they're stone age porn.

 

[gnostic]

Fair enough, but I'm of the mind that the life-long work of a prominent archaeologist in the field shouldn't be dismissed as mere speculation (in reference to Marija Gimbutas).

Isn't interpretation, just speculation?

There is no evidences to support goddess worship, just some people interpreting or speculating that it might be true.

If you were to ask me: "Does the figurines have spiritual significance?"

I would unequivocally answer you: :yes:

But if were to ask me: "Are these feminine figurines images of goddess worship?"

Then I would answer, "it could be", but I don't think we have enough verifiable information or evidence, to understand the context of the image to say it is a "goddess" they were worshipping.

You have to understand that I see spirituality and religion are not necessarily the same things.

If these figurines were found near something like altar, then yeah, :yes: for sure.

But if they were found buried with someone, that still don't necessarily shout "goddess". It could be, or it could be not.

I couldn't care what this archaeologist think, if he or she can't provide more than his or her interpretation.

You of all people should know that there are in number of interpretations to any work of art. Your interpretation may agree with the artist, or you may be wrong. You cannot possibly truly know what the artist's intention are, unless you ask them personally or he wrote them down what he really mean. With some arts, it is possible to know they mean or signify, while others are difficult to determine their meanings.

And we cannot possibly know with stone-carver's intention or inspiration to his or her Venus figurine.

I don't doubt that my own view here, could be wrong, and your archaeologist could be right, but how are any of us positively know for certain?

Sorry, willamena, but it is the archaeologist's speculation, nothing more, nothing less.