What is the US interest in Ukraine?

[atanu]

Blinken says:

"The world should not be fooled by any tactical move by Russia, supported by China or any other country, to freeze the war on its own terms.”

What does he mean? The war should not end till Ukraine and/or Russia are depleted to death? Or the war should end only on US terms?

If Russia and Ukraine reach peace (mediated by China or not) what is the problem? Probably US senses its investments going bad?

Thucydides Trap - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Revoltingest]

Blinken says:

"The world should not be fooled by any tactical move by Russia, supported by China or any other country, to freeze the war on its own terms.”

What does he mean? The war should not end till Ukraine and/or Russia are depleted to death? Or the war should end only on US terms?

There are other options, eg, Ukraine should expel the invaders.

 

[atanu]

There are other options, eg, Ukraine should expel the invaders.

You probably know that consequences are likely to be far graver than that. Either one can be naive and not see that only people who benefit are the warmonger arms sellers. Or one is actually a warmonger.

Furthermore. If Russia and Ukraine reach an agreement (whether mediated by China or not), what problem Blinken might have?
…

 

[Stevicus]

Blinken says:

"The world should not be fooled by any tactical move by Russia, supported by China or any other country, to freeze the war on its own terms.”

What does he mean? The war should not end till Ukraine and/or Russia are depleted to death? Or the war should end only on US terms?

If Russia and Ukraine reach peace (mediated by China or not) what is the problem? Probably US senses its investments going bad?

Thucydides Trap - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It could be that. To me, the problems within the U.S. have gotten to the point where our international influence and geopolitical capital may be on the wane.

 

[Revoltingest]

You probably know that consequences are likely to be far graver than that. Either one can be naive and not see that only people who benefit are the warmonger arms sellers. Or one is actually a warmonger.

Furthermore. If Russia and Ukraine reach an agreement (whether mediated by China or not), what problem Blinken might have?
…

There are grave consequences to the appeasement of
Putin that so many advocate. It encourages him to
invade more countries. What is the right thing to do?
Hard to say.

 

[lukethethird]

Blinken says:

"The world should not be fooled by any tactical move by Russia, supported by China or any other country, to freeze the war on its own terms.”

What does he mean? The war should not end till Ukraine and/or Russia are depleted to death? Or the war should end only on US terms?

If Russia and Ukraine reach peace (mediated by China or not) what is the problem? Probably US senses its investments going bad?

Thucydides Trap - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Blinken doesn't fool me for a second, his words are that of a warmongering chickenhawk. The US wanted this war and they don't want it to end it until Putin is out of power. Blinken doesn't care about Ukrainians, they can all die fighting for all he cares. Blinken supported the Iraq war and all the lies that went along with that as well.

 

[Left Coast]

Blinken says:

"The world should not be fooled by any tactical move by Russia, supported by China or any other country, to freeze the war on its own terms.”

What does he mean? The war should not end till Ukraine and/or Russia are depleted to death? Or the war should end only on US terms?

If Russia and Ukraine reach peace (mediated by China or not) what is the problem? Probably US senses its investments going bad?

Thucydides Trap - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Seems obvious (to me) that this means Ukraine should have a seat at the negotiating table in determining how the conflict ends. Isn't that fair and obvious?

 

[metis]

Blinken doesn't fool me for a second, his words are that of a warmongering chickenhawk. The US wanted this war and they don't want it to end it until Putin is out of power. Blinken doesn't care about Ukrainians, they can all die fighting for all he cares.

And you supposedly know this how? mind reader? Can you quote him saying anything like what you claim?

BTW, I have never been if favor of our actions to get involved since I'm a believer in non-violent non-cooperation on such matters.

 

[Flankerl]

Either one can be naive and not see that only people who benefit are the warmonger arms sellers. Or one is actually a warmonger.

With the military aid Ukraine is able to keep Russia confined to the East and South East.
This keeps Ukrainian civilians safe from the rape, torture and murder of the Russian soldiers.

Want to read a "fun" article on that?

Here you go

If Russia and Ukraine reach an agreement

They can't and won't.
Russia has made it clear why.
You might want to catch up on Russias plans for Eastern Europe.

 

[lukethethird]

Seems obvious (to me) that this means Ukraine should have a seat at the negotiating table in determining how the conflict ends. Isn't that fair and obvious?

I doubt the US will allow that.

 

[lukethethird]

And you supposedly know this how? mind reader? Can you quote him saying anything like what you claim?

BTW, I have never been if favor of our actions to get involved since I'm a believer in non-violent non-cooperation on such matters.

Blinken has a track record, Iraq, Libya, Yemen. He could have signed the Minsk agreement before all this started, but refused.

 

[lukethethird]

With the military aid Ukraine is able to keep Russia confined to the East and South East.
This keeps Ukrainian civilians safe from the rape, torture and murder of the Russian soldiers.

Want to read a "fun" article on that?

Here you go


They can't and won't.
Russia has made it clear why.
You might want to catch up on Russias plans for Eastern Europe.

Atrocities have been committed on both sides so what is your point, that atrocities are committed in wars?

You are privy to what Russia is planning? How so?

 

[Flankerl]

Atrocities have been committed on both sides so what is your point, that atrocities are committed in wars?

*Staff edit*
We have information about a few, as in a handful of cases on the Ukrainian side.
These were with Russian POWs.
The vast, absolute vast majority (we are talking about 99%) of cases are on the Russian side.

Ukraine doesn't even produce any war crimes when it strikes once every few months in Russia, usually Belgorod.
For some reason they always hit military targets.

Just today Russia fired a rocket into an apartment block in Zaporizhzhia.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638504871857987587

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638494665350565889

*Staff edit*

You are privy to what Russia is planning? How so?

By them accidentally publishing it shortly after the invasion on a government news website.
That's why you don't set an automatic publishing date.

Наступление России и нового мира

Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022

web.archive.org

 

[Left Coast]

I doubt the US will allow that.

Why wouldn't the US allow the Ukrainians to negotiate peace with the Russians? That makes no sense.

 

[Father Heathen]

@atanu , what are your thoughts on this?:

Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says

The findings by the United Nations experts are the latest allegations of war crimes against Russia since its invasion of Ukraine.

www.nbcnews.com

Also, apparently India gets on it's knees to lick Putin's boots. Why?

@atanu ,why did you sidestep my post?

My support for a people who are defending their lives, their land, and their freedom has nothing to do with nationalism and everything to do with human decency.
The ones with clouded thinking are those who side with tyrants, terrorists, and war criminals.

So by your logic, if a woman carries pepper spray as a means of self defense, then she's actually provoking rapists and thus would deserved to be raped?

Also, when were you going to sac up and answer my earlier question (post #6)?

As they say in your country, "take poo to the loo."

It appears @atanu failed to take his poo to the loo

 

[Debater Slayer]

View attachment 73556

Putin’s actions, if seen in isolation, is extremely condemnable.

But we know of US interventions abroad.

We know from Victoria Nuland’s phone record that 2014 coup in Ukraine was staged by the US. Furthermore, we have records of Putin’s repeated requests to keep Russia’s neighbours NATO free. Finland and Sweden have been neutral and were not attacked.

We know that Putin’s requests and warnings were ignored, probably wilfully. War is always a good opportunity for new business worth billions.

…

I do find the double standards of some public figures, politicians, and media outlets appalling, but there are a few problems with the above points:

• Russia annexed Crimea years before the invasion, so the Kremlin can't use the "Ukraine wanted to join NATO" excuse. Of course they wanted to join an alliance to reinforce their position after having a part of their territory annexed. What did Russia expect? That Ukraine would just hand over the territory and not seek any defensive support?

• Finland and Sweden are in the EU, so attacking them would be far riskier to Russia than attacking Ukraine was. Russia had already shown hostile designs before the 2022 invasion, such as in Georgia and Crimea.

• This war has heavily affected the economies of the US and EU, and they both send financial and military aid to Ukraine. They don't make billions from selling arms to Ukraine; they are losing billions due to the war.

There are many instances of the US' engaging in geopolitical instigation and profiteering, but this doesn't seem to me one of those to any significant extent. Putin wanted to invade Ukraine and had already annexed a part of it long before 2022. If Russia withdrew its forces tomorrow and negotiated a peace deal, I'm almost sure that said deal would have a solid chance of passing and becoming a reality.

 

[Father Heathen]

Let's not forget that Russia has also been enabling the genocidal junta in Myanmar.

 

[Kathryn]

I read a very interesting biography on Peter The Great. For the record, but I digress.

Anyway, from the get go I've said the following:

KYEV is KIEV. As in Chicken Kiev (two syllables).
There's a reason why THE Ukraine (aka Ukraine) is not a member of NATO. For example, just a few years ago, their president ran off and hid in WHERE? Oh, in Russia.
I wish I knew Putin's side of all this, I really do.
Over 30 percent of Ukrainians also speak Russian.
I am sorry that some Ukrainians don't want to be invaded by Russia, but I am not sure how it's actually the business of the US.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I read a very interesting biography on Peter The Great. For the record, but I digress.

Anyway, from the get go I've said the following:

KYEV is KIEV. As in Chicken Kiev (two syllables).
There's a reason why THE Ukraine (aka Ukraine) is not a member of NATO. For example, just a few years ago, their president ran off and hid in WHERE? Oh, in Russia.
I wish I knew Putin's side of all this, I really do.
Over 30 percent of Ukrainians also speak Russian.
I am sorry that some Ukrainians don't want to be invaded by Russia, but I am not sure how it's actually the business of the US.

Well, you and I don't decide that as such.
We can say what we feel in the end, but that is that.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, you and I don't decide that as such.
We can say what we feel in the end, but that is that.

True and I will therefore keep saying it but I don't believe I actually hold a lot of power to change anything. That's why I don't worry too much about the financial crisis we seem to be in, if you believe the news. At least I'll be in good company if it all hits the fan.