I score them differently, giving far more weight
to one issue: Invading another country to kill
its people, & take its land. Russia scores higher
on the evil index.
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What is the US interest in Ukraine?
- Thread starter atanu
- Start date
to one issue: Invading another country to kill
its people, & take its land. Russia scores higher
on the evil index.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I think actual occurrences take precedence over hypothetical ones.
Sure, but they very in levels of severity, and I don't imagine it gets much worse than raping and torturing children.
Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says
The findings by the United Nations experts are the latest allegations of war crimes against Russia since its invasion of Ukraine.
www.nbcnews.com
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, to nitpick. For the Russian people to be subject to war crimes by the Russian government requires that there in effect is a civil war going on.
That is so, because not all crimes relevant as crimes against humanity and genocide are not one to one war crimes.
And no, none of those are not going on in Russia as of now against the Russian people.
lukethethird
unknown member
People of Donbass and Lugansk have been subjected to war crimes by western Ukraines, some of which extend back to 2014, since the civil war in Ukraine started.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
No, not really as far as I can tell based on neutral reporting.
But here is a true Internet source and it is true, because you can read it. lukethethird is a traitor to his country and that is now a fact, because it is claimed.
That is the standard of how to do that. Just claim it and it is a fact.
lukethethird
unknown member
I see, war crimes are one sided.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
No, but not all wars involve war crimes and not all sides in a war do war crimes, just because it is claimed.
And further it is even more complicated than at least some civilians believe in regards to the actual laws of war.
lukethethird
unknown member
I know, and we are on the side of good, fighting the forces of evil, a Christian crusade saving souls, blah blah blah, and all from our computer desks no less with our tax dollars at work. Too busy fighting crusades to consider diplomacy I guess.
What is the US interest in Ukraine?
To live contently we need to have more than our own practical interests at heart. We want to be leaders in the support of freedom and democracy for all people.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, not to me. It is a bit more complex than that.
lukethethird
unknown member
Not to me. Supporting war, picking sides is tribal. All that civilised people can do is try not to get caught in the crossfire.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, that is a noble idea. But I like that you are the judge of what civilized is.
No, they aren't. You could have said "some are more or less useful to specific causes," but the way you worded it is quite troubling at best. Rwandan lives are no less important than Ukrainian ones, and vice versa.
What you're saying here seems to imply that if genocide were carried out in my country tomorrow, our lives would be less important as long as the perpetrators didn't pose a threat to NATO. I'm not sure whether you see how concerning that sounds to someone from the same region as Rwanda.
So it's all about geopolitics, after all? Going by what you said, it sounds like human rights, democracy, and the other mantras the US touts aren't exactly the main motive for aiding people in other countries against war crimes and mass murder.
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mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yes, it is to me, if I am honest as a Dane even for Danish politics. I wish it was different, but it is not realistic only to go for human rights and all that. It is a part of it, yes, But not always the main part and if it is, it can blind you for the realities on the ground.
I completely agree. I understand prioritizing involvement in conflicts based on geopolitics, since no country could realistically send aid everywhere there are human rights violations. However, saying that this means some lives are "less important" than others is extremely problematic.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
The level of mental gymnastics that people are performing to excuse or justify this is insane.
It's also disturbing because it makes me suspect that if it happened to your country or mine and our families and friends were put at risk, there would be people justifying and excusing that.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
What's also disturbing is that those who claim to advocate for peace are placing onus upon the victim rather than upon the aggressor, using the same logic as rape apologists.
I am giving you a "like" for what I (hopefully correctly) see as deliberate irony in your statement.
Of course NATO is not the determining factor for the value of a human life.
lukethethird
unknown member
Some people feel safe and protected by this Nato war alliance or war pact, you know how it is with xenophobia and the fears that go along with that sort of thing.