What is the Word (John1:1)?

[LightofTruth]

Ok, some more flashing adverts, and deliberate attempts to destract the whole issue.

But it will not help you at all!!!!
You still have to answer me on isaiah 48: 12-16.
And you would have to reply to my post where I caught you out not understanding what your own references said on the origins of the Trinity.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry pal, you failed in anny form of constructive debate, and proven to me you dont know zilch about the Bible!

Jesus is one person. And that one person has a God who he calls "My God" and "My Father".

Now, if you had any common sense you'd realize that the God of Jesus is the only true God.

the absurdity says that Jesus has a God in his human nature but not in his God nature. As if jesus were two persons. One with a God and the other no God.

I can't believe intelligent people actually fall for such nonsense!

 

[LightofTruth]

I recently had a discussion with a Trinitarian who, when I showed him where Jesus has a God, he denied it and said "Jesus has no God". Which is a denial of Jesus' own words.

If a person who claims to believe the Scripture of truth would read the words of Jesus he might discover that Jesus NEVER claimed to have anything but what was given, granted, appointed or committed unto him by his God and Father.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Jesus is one person. And that one person has a God who he calls "My God" and "My Father".

Now, if you had any common sense you'd realize that the God of Jesus is the only true God.

the absurdity says that Jesus has a God in his human nature but not in his God nature. As if jesus were two persons. One with a God and the other no God.

I can't believe intelligent people actually fall for such nonsense!

Well, then between us one is wrong.
I believe in the Trinity of God.
Not because I simply believe that this is what some Church teaches, but because I went throughout the Bible and came to the conclusion that God ids one God and His name id YHWH.
This God hac a Spirit, nad this Spirit is able to leave the existance of YHWH, to enter into creation.
The Spirit of YHWH, Is also God, for it being part of YHWH, can not now simply change into something not divine,
If an attribute of YHWH can leave and re join YHWH then this attribute must be divine too. Will we now have 2 God's?
Well, this is where one must keep the description of the Trinity in mind.
The Father, the Spirit, and the Word are all one God.
But, what if God allows His Spirit or His Word to leave His existance to enter into creation.
Are they now 3 gods' or still one God with a spirit and Mind on 3 different places?
it is still the same God, with His Spirit and Word in 3 different places, yes!
And if man encounters one of these 3 attributes og God somewhare, say as Moses met in the burning bush?
Yes, Moses met God there, but this was the attribute of YHWH's Word.
Does this mean the Word spoke things of YHWH which YHWH never said?
Nope again.
because YHWH is One, and we have the Spirit and Mind on 3 different places, they each said and spoke the exact thing.

Comming to your claim that Jesus claimed YHWH to be his God, I agree.
The Word of God was now manifested in the Human body.
This divine being wqas now no less than a Human, who lived in a corrupt body that had to die!
Once jesus rose form the dead, entered Heaven, He was now in a body of the one we will receive on ressurection.
Think about this.
Jesus said, no flesh and blood will enter heaven, yet when he spoke to Thomas, he said, a ghost does not have flesh and bone!
here jesys described something very interesting.
On the cross he gave all his blood as sacrifice, upon the ressurection, and glorification, Jesus' body had no blood!
makes one think why God needed blood to cover our corrupt bodies to interact with the high priests, or when blood covered Adam and Eve with the clothes of skin God made for them killing animals to save them.
This means that as Jesus had only flesh and Blood, Adam also had no blood in his immortal body. The sin we have in our bodies has something to do with Blood and light which was how Adam and Eve were dressed, in light!
Now, I am not sure on the appearance of Jesus in heaven, but it seems as if He is in a glorious body of flesh, bone and light.
in this regard, Jesus claims that ALL flesh will worship the Father.
Which is now, at least to me, very clear in demonstrating the Love of God.
Now we have the future human in a body without blood, covered in light, together with the Father, who is also covered in light, and the Spirit dwelling in the Father....
But we also has the Word of the Father now in a exact glorious body being the same as human and as God.
As the human glorious body of Jesus are the "Brother" of Mankind, but is also the God of Mankind.

This simply means that God gave one of his attributes up to be like we will be, but that attribute will still be God.
Thats why I love the God of the Bible.
He went so far as to become one of us, and even further to enter eternity as one of us.
Just think if YHWH was a selfish gos like Allah!
He would have left us to literally rot in hell.

 

[MJFlores]

And to top it all off,
You promised to discuss Isaiah 48 12-16 with me step by step!
Why dont you do as you vowed to do?

SORRY, you suggested that verse, you should explain it.
When I visit a fast food chain, I order the food I like
not another customer ordering for me something he likes
So that is your order and you should pay for it

It is my position that:
a] Jesus isn't there
b] I believe that the "me" there is none other than prophet Isaiah.

Your mess, you clean it up

Who is this Creator who created the Heavens and the earth, who said I Am the beginning and the End.

The mere fact that you are asking
Who is this Creator
I Am the beginning and the End

You are looking for a single creator who is the beginning and the end
otherwise you would be asking me Who are those Creators and they are the beginning and the end.

Then Why does this Creator say, the Elohim YHWH and His SPIRIT sent Me!

 

[MJFlores]

The Father, the Spirit, and the Word are all one God.

I believe that the one and only true God is the Father, the Creator. I hold this belief because this is the doctrine taught by our Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles (John 17:3, 1; I Cor. 8:6). God is a spirit (John 4:24), and, therefore, He has no flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

There is no trinity of persons in God. Though the Bible speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, never does it refer to all of them as gods nor as three persons in one God; rather, it points to the Father alone as the true God. The Son Himself emphasized that only the Father is the true God (John 17:3, 1) and that He Himself is a man telling the truth which He received from God (John 8:40). The prophets also taught that we have only one Father who created us (Mal. 2:10; Isa. 64:8). He alone is God, there is no other God and no one is like Him (Isa. 46:9).

God is from everlasting to everlasting, with no beginning or end (Ps. 90:2), immortal (I Tim. 1:17), and does not tire or become weary (Isa. 40:28).

He alone is the Creator of heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all things therein, and the seas and all that is in them (Neh. 9:6).

 

[SA Huguenot]

It is my position that:
a] Jesus isn't there
b] I believe that the "me" there is none other than prophet Isaiah.

This can only be assumed if one disregards everything in Isaiah 48.
Go back again and read who this person "ME" is speaking there.
Isaiahs' name can be poluted easily, but the Holy name of YHWH must not be poluted.
Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Here the speaker identifies Himself as God. This is not Isaiah speaking at all.
Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
He goes further to inform the reader that it is the Creator who is speaking.
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Now we find this Creator who is not isaiah telling us that "The Lord" will punish the Chaldeans, and to clarify who this person is that speaks, He even say that I, even I called Jacob.
Isa 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
And now we have the full revelation.
This same person speaking here now says that he was there before time had a beginning, "I AM" and informs us that the YHWH and His Spirit sent him.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

The only way one can change the meaning away from the Creator with the Holy Name sent by YHWH and His Spirit, is to misstranslate everything.
In the pre Christian era, Philo understood it as such, and I do too.
in 1820 Pauli also accepted Christianity, a Jew, when he started to study the Trinity.
Anyhow.
One can not change the meaning with a simple interperatation. the meaning stands solid.
Trinity.
Thereare much more, but for now this is what it is.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Agur the son of Jakeh asks:
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
This guy was just as I.
Brutish, without any learned wisdom or knowledge of God.
Yet, I investigated and attained learned knowledge, and found written facts about God, therefore, I can ask questions about God, and Religion from the perspective of one that does not need to believe, but from the point of one that know.
I can ask:
Do you know who ascended or descended up and from heaven?
do you know who created everything on the Earth and set natural laws?
Do you know His Name?
Or the Name of HIS SON?

In 700BC Agur knew YHWH had a Son!.

 

[MJFlores]

This can only be assumed if one disregards everything in Isaiah 48.
Go back again and read who this person "ME" is speaking there.
Isaiahs' name can be poluted easily, but the Holy name of YHWH must not be poluted.
Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Here the speaker identifies Himself as God. This is not Isaiah speaking at all.
Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
He goes further to inform the reader that it is the Creator who is speaking.
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Now we find this Creator who is not isaiah telling us that "The Lord" will punish the Chaldeans, and to clarify who this person is that speaks, He even say that I, even I called Jacob.
Isa 48:14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
And now we have the full revelation.
This same person speaking here now says that he was there before time had a beginning, "I AM" and informs us that the YHWH and His Spirit sent him.
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

The only way one can change the meaning away from the Creator with the Holy Name sent by YHWH and His Spirit, is to misstranslate everything.
In the pre Christian era, Philo understood it as such, and I do too.
in 1820 Pauli also accepted Christianity, a Jew, when he started to study the Trinity.
Anyhow.
One can not change the meaning with a simple interperatation. the meaning stands solid.
Trinity.
Thereare much more, but for now this is what it is.

Isaiah 48 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)

 

[SA Huguenot]

perhaps you dont know that Matthew henry was a believer in the Trinity.
Even though he say the person speaking here is God who speaks through Isaiah, henrey also say that the YHWH and YHWH's Spirit is here evidence of the Trinity.
How did you miss out on that?
Even the evidence you supply as a link in this regard teaches the Trinity.

v. 16. The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son, and having a divine authority to send prophets. Note, Whom God sends the Spirit sends. Those whom God commissions for any service the Spirit in some measure qualifies for it; and those may speak boldly, and must be heard obediently, whom God and his Spirit send. As that which the prophet says to the same purport with this ch. 61:1 ) is applied to Christ (Lu. 4:21 ), so may this be; the Lord God sent him, and he had the Spirit without measure

Now, I dont have to believe that mathew Henry is the alpha and omega when it comes to reading the bible, I can also do so.
My observation is this:
Even if it is the prophet speaking here, it is the words of the one who created everything telling us that YHWH and Hos Spirit sent me.

it is not God sending Isaiah to pull Jacob from Assyria, it is only God who does that.

to conclude.
You gave me a nice bit of evidence that mathew Henry claims that the Spirit of God, and God are 2 persons, but one God.
mH and a lot more people will differe on who was this one who was sent, but it is clear that the one sent was the "I AM"!
We know him as Jashua, the I AM!
Thanks for assisting me to prove the Trinity Flores.

 

[LightofTruth]

v. 16. The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son

.

That's a stretch.

 

[LightofTruth]

Comming to your claim that Jesus claimed YHWH to be his God, I agree.
The Word of God was now manifested in the Human body.
This divine being wqas now no less than a Human, who lived in a corrupt body that had to die!
Once jesus rose form the dead, entered Heaven, He was now in a body of the one we will receive on ressurection.
Think about this.
.

Jesus has a God because "The Word of God was now manifested in a Human body"?

Are you saying that God has a God because God came in a human body?

How exactly does that work?

Jesus became a Human who has a God while at the same time God Himself?

Please explain that, because it sounds like total nonsense.

 

[MJFlores]

perhaps you dont know that Matthew henry was a believer in the Trinity.
Even though he say the person speaking here is God who speaks through Isaiah, henrey also say that the YHWH and YHWH's Spirit is here evidence of the Trinity.
How did you miss out on that?
Even the evidence you supply as a link in this regard teaches the Trinity.

And Mathew Henry did not declare that the Trinity was mentioned in your favorite verse Isaiah 48 which is surprising because he died believing this lie yet he did not see the Trinity on that chapter.

I believe there is no Trinitarian scholar who could support your claim.
Maybe a junkie high in fenetalyn but I sincerely doubt it.
I don't see it only you could see it.
Sorry it is empty maybe because your bible version was not done faithfully

What is the version of the Bible you are using?
Even now you have not mentioned your Bible version.
Why don't you divulge what version of the Bible are you using?

Maybe it was translated by an evil entity of some sort or
you simply don't want people to verify the version's authenticity?

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus has a God because "The Word of God was now manifested in a Human body"?

Are you saying that God has a God because God came in a human body?

How exactly does that work?

Jesus became a Human who has a God while at the same time God Himself?

Please explain that, because it sounds like total nonsense.

Nope, isn't nonsense. Sort of what word means, isn't it?

 

[SA Huguenot]

And Mathew Henry did not declare that the Trinity was mentioned in your favorite verse Isaiah 48 which is surprising because he died believing this lie yet he did not see the Trinity on that chapter.

And perhaps you did miss out on the fact that MH does identify the Holy Spirit and YHWH as 2 distinct persons.

 

[MJFlores]

And perhaps you did miss out on the fact that MH does identify the Holy Spirit and YHWH as 2 distinct persons.

Isaiah 48 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)

If I did - show us in this forum
by copy and paste - the commentary of the dead guy
But if you can't.....

 

[SA Huguenot]

Matthew henry on isaiah 48: 16.
From your own reference."The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son,"
But while we are on the subject, lets see what Matthew henry say about the Trinity.
On Gen 1: 1-2
(2.) The author and cause of this great work - God. The Hebrew word is Elohim, which bespeaks, [1.] The power of God the Creator. El signifies the strong God; and what less than almighty strength could bring all things out of nothing? [2.] The plurality of persons in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This plural name of God, in Hebrew, which speaks of him as many though he is one, was to the Gentiles perhaps a savour of death unto death, hardening them in their idolatry; but it is to us a savour of life unto life, confirming our faith in the doctrine of the Trinity, which, though but darkly intimated in the Old Testament, is clearly revealed in the New. The Son of God, the eternal Word and Wisdom of the Father, was with him when he made the world (Pro_8:30), nay, we are often told that the world was made by him, and nothing made without him, Joh_1:3, Joh_1:10; Eph_3:9; Col_1:16; Heb_1:2. O what high thoughts should this form in our minds of that great God whom we draw nigh to in religious worship, and that great Mediator in whose name we draw nigh!
On Numbers 7: 10-89
at sundry times and in divers manners spoke unto the fathers, he has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son. And that he who now spoke to Moses, as the shechinah or divine Majesty, from between the cherubim, was the eternal Word, the second person in the Trinity, was the pious conjecture of many of the ancients; for all God's communion with man is by his Son, by whom he made the world, and rules the church, and who is the same yesterday, today, and for ever.
on Deut 6: 4
It is past dispute that there is one God, and there is no other but he, Mar_12:32. Let us therefore have no other, nor desire to have any other. Some have thought there is here a plain intimation of the trinity of persons in the unity of the Godhead; for here is the name of God three times, and yet all declared to be one. Happy they that have this one Lord for their God; for they have but one master to please, but one benefactor to seek to. It is better to have one fountain that a thousand cisterns, one all-sufficient God than a thousand insufficient ones.
I will leave the rest.
It is quite clear that you are using Matthew \henry's works to disprove the Trinity, when in fact he wrote about the facts of the Trinity.
At Least, at least isaiah 48:16 tells us about the Father and the Holy Spirit.
This according the Matthew henry.
That is if you want to go so far as to change the meaning of the verses that the prophet spoke here, and not the Word.

 

[MJFlores]

"The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son,"

To make your dizzying justification short....

Tell me, how does your godhead look like?

Or is it this one?

My God is written in the Bible as spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 4:23-24 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
But the time is coming when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. In fact, that time is now here. And these are the kind of people the Father wants to be his worshipers. God is spirit. So the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[SA Huguenot]

To make your dizzying justification short....

Tell me, how does your godhead look like?

Or is it this one?

My God is written in the Bible as spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 4:23-24 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
But the time is coming when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. In fact, that time is now here. And these are the kind of people the Father wants to be his worshipers. God is spirit. So the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

View attachment 32218

What are you talking about?
Did I ever tell you or asked you what the appearance of God is like?
What argument are you now drumming forth?
if you want to see how God looks like, go to the sick, the poor, the heartbroken, the opressed.
Look at them, feed them clothe them, talk to them, comfort them.
Then you see God!

 

[MJFlores]

What are you talking about?
Did I ever tell you or asked you what the appearance of God is like?
What argument are you now drumming forth?
if you want to see how God looks like, go to the sick, the poor, the heartbroken, the opressed.
Look at them, feed them clothe them, talk to them, comfort them.
Then you see God!

I believe, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Even those who do not know God
perform these charitable acts.

CFI and Atheist Charities | Center for Inquiry




Now how do you picture your Truine God?

How do picture your Godhead?

 

[SA Huguenot]

I believe, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Even those who do not know God
perform these charitable acts.

CFI and Atheist Charities | Center for Inquiry




Now how do you picture your Truine God?

View attachment 32220

How do picture your Godhead?

View attachment 32221

What is these pictures of some silly Trinity I dont believe in?
or is this how you understand the Trinity should be.
In that case, note you are wrong pal.