What is "woke" in 2024

[PureX]

Let's look at the story in Springfield Ohio.

There are a lot of Haitians applying to the U.S. for asylum because Haiti has become a lawless dystopian nightmare of a place to try and live in. And some bureaucrat somewhere in DC decided that sending some of them to Springfield Ohio was a good idea. And Springfield accepted them because the fed also sent some money along with the Haitians to help get them settled.

But there is a housing shortage in the U.S. because the greedsters have been pooling their money and buying all the single family housing stock to create a monopoly that they can then use to price gouge the housing market. So Springfield has a problem. Even with the added government assistance it cannot afford to help house both the Haitians and the locals that need help finding housing.

So some local official gets stuck with the ugly task of having to do "triage" in the face of this housing emergency, and he decides that the Haitians are the greater priority in terms of his helping them find housing. And of course this greatly angers the locals as they get put at the end of the housing waiting list, behind these 'newcomers'. And they start complaining loudly, and somewhat justifiably about it.

The local neo-nazis hear of these complaints, and decide this is just the kind of thing they can jump on and exploit to try and bring in new members. So they start staging racist protests around town and writing incendiary op-eds hating on the Haitians and proclaiming, "whitey comes first!". And soon enough the republicans for Donald Trump pick up on this and realize it's just the kind of thing that Trump can exploit to get enraged racist voters to the poll to vote for him.

And now here we are.

And the real problem is not that the government functionaries screwed up, because they didn't. The Haitians needed asylum, and Springfield was a good safe place for them to get it, as long as the U.S. government was willing to foot the bill for all the help they would need to get a new start in life. And the townspeople were OK with it until the greedy capitalists created a deliberate housing shortage, and began pricing the locals out into the street. Then the locals needed the help that was going to the Haitians.

None of this was the Haitians fault, nor was it the local's fault, nor was it the various local and federal bureaucrat's fault. IT WAS THE GREEDSTER'S FAULT for deliberately creating a housing shortage so they could then price-gouge everyone living in the area for housing. And then it was the fascist, neo-nazi bigots fault for deliberately stirring up people's fear and loathing of any sort of "other" when they are feeling threatened and put upon, themselves. And then finally it's ALL OUR FAULTS for allowing all this socially destructive greed and stupidity and bigotry to go on and on and on like this because we're too stupid and too addicted to our positions of wealth and privilege to admit that our own greed and selfishness and stupidity is what's really destroying us.

And the Springfield story is a perfect example of it.

 

[icehorse]

No, not agreed, because how woke the people who buy those books are, wasn't your original argument. Your argument was that woke meant agreeing to your list and is a big problem because two books are selling and being rated on Amazon.

That's not exactly what my arguments have been.

To recap, many posters on this thread have argued - more or less - "people don't believe the things on your list". In response to that claim, I brought up the two best selling authors to prove that - in fact - many people believe the things on my list.

Unless I'm mistaken no one has yet said "well sure, some people believe this, but it's not a problem". That might be a valid point, but we haven't addressed that. And to be clear, I think that would be a topic for a different thread.

 

[icehorse]

Please lay out your methodology step by step, and thanks in advance.

To be clear, what methodology are you referring to? I'm guessing you want me to walk thru the math that leads me to believe millions of people believe the ideas on the list?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Let's look at the story in Springfield Ohio.

There are a lot of Haitians applying to the U.S. for asylum because Haiti has become a lawless dystopian nightmare of a place to try and live in. And some bureaucrat somewhere in DC decided that sending some of them to Springfield Ohio was a good idea. And Springfield accepted them because the fed also sent some money along with the Haitians to help get them settled.

But there is a housing shortage in the U.S. because the greedsters have been pooling their money and buying all the single family housing stock to create a monopoly that they can then use to price gouge the housing market. So Springfield has a problem. Even with the added government assistance it cannot afford to help house both the Haitians and the locals that need help finding housing.

So some local official gets stuck with the ugly task of having to do "triage" in the face of this housing emergency, and he decides that the Haitians are the greater priority in terms of his helping them find housing. And of course this greatly angers the locals as they get put at the end of the housing waiting list, behind these 'newcomers'. And they start complaining loudly, and somewhat justifiably about it.

The local neo-nazis hear of these complaints, and decide this is just the kind of thing they can jump on and exploit to try and bring in new members. So they start staging racist protests around town and writing incendiary op-eds hating on the Haitians and proclaiming, "whitey comes first!". And soon enough the republicans for Donald Trump pick up on this and realize it's just the kind of thing that Trump can exploit to get enraged racist voters to the poll to vote for him.

And now here we are.

And the real problem is not that the government functionaries screwed up, because they didn't. The Haitians needed asylum, and Springfield was a good safe place for them to get it, as long as the U.S. government was willing to foot the bill for all the help they would need to get a new start in life. And the townspeople were OK with it until the greedy capitalists created a deliberate housing shortage, and began pricing the locals out into the street. Then the locals needed the help that was going to the Haitians.

None of this was the Haitians fault, nor was it the local's fault, nor was it the various local and federal bureaucrat's fault. IT WAS THE GREEDSTER'S FAULT for deliberately creating a housing shortage so they could then price-gouge everyone living in the area for housing. And then it was the fascist, neo-nazi bigots fault for deliberately stirring up people's fear and loathing of any sort of "other" when they are feeling threatened and put upon, themselves. And then finally it's ALL OUR FAULTS for allowing all this socially destructive greed and stupidity and bigotry to go on and on and on like this because we're too stupid and too addicted to our positions of wealth and privilege to admit that our own greed and selfishness and stupidity is what's really destroying us.

And the Springfield story is a perfect example of it.

What about the jobs issue? Are there only so many jobs available in the town? How do you think that more will be created, if that is what needs to happen? And also the issue of developing more land over there, that could either be used for farming, or just open nature

I think maybe there also is a different issue with immigration, that being that newcomers are not owners of hard assets, usually, so that means they will instead pay for services, in regard to things humans need. That allows for more interest-type, or rent service type debt, probably, to exist. Whereas, a society with little immigration might, I guess, reach some kind of 'ownership saturation'

 

[Spice]

What about the jobs issue? Are there only so many jobs available in the town? How do you think that more will be created, if that is what needs to happen? And also the issue of developing more land over there, that could either be used for farming, or just open nature

I think maybe there also is a different issue with immigration, that being that newcomers are not owners of hard assets, usually, so that means they will instead pay for services, in regard to things humans need. That allows for more interest-type, or rent service type debt, probably, to exist. Whereas, a society with little immigration might, I guess, reach some kind of 'ownership saturation'

I heard a factory supervisor in Springfield speak on the news about how great the Haitian employees are.

Here are some of the legal ways immigrants can get into the US that may or may not be used in conjunction with asylum seeking:

• H-2B Temporary Non-Agricultural Workers: This program allows US employers to bring foreign workers to fill temporary non-agricultural jobs. To qualify, the employer must demonstrate that there aren't enough US workers available for the job, and that hiring the foreign worker won't negatively impact the wages or working conditions of US workers. There is a numerical limit on the number of H-2B visas that can be issued each fiscal year.
• H-2A Temporary Agricultural Workers: This program allows employers to bring foreign workers to perform temporary or seasonal agricultural work. This includes work on farms, ranches, plantations, nurseries, and more.
• O-1 Visas: This visa is for individuals with extraordinary ability or achievement. The validity period of the petition determines how long the nonimmigrant is allowed to stay in the US.
• L-1 Visas: These visas are for intracompany transfers.
• P Visas: These visas are for athletes, entertainers, and skilled performers.
• R-1 Visas: These visas are for religious workers.
• A Visas: These visas are for diplomatic employees.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I heard a factory supervisor in Springfield speak on the news about how great the Haitian employees are.

Here are some of the legal ways immigrants can get into the US that may or may not be used in conjunction with asylum seeking:

• H-2B Temporary Non-Agricultural Workers: This program allows US employers to bring foreign workers to fill temporary non-agricultural jobs. To qualify, the employer must demonstrate that there aren't enough US workers available for the job, and that hiring the foreign worker won't negatively impact the wages or working conditions of US workers. There is a numerical limit on the number of H-2B visas that can be issued each fiscal year.
• H-2A Temporary Agricultural Workers: This program allows employers to bring foreign workers to perform temporary or seasonal agricultural work. This includes work on farms, ranches, plantations, nurseries, and more.
• O-1 Visas: This visa is for individuals with extraordinary ability or achievement. The validity period of the petition determines how long the nonimmigrant is allowed to stay in the US.
• L-1 Visas: These visas are for intracompany transfers.
• P Visas: These visas are for athletes, entertainers, and skilled performers.
• R-1 Visas: These visas are for religious workers.
• A Visas: These visas are for diplomatic employees.

I don't doubt it, but my questions weren't about that. I am talking about the broader picture here - do they really have enough available work there?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

2 - Protecting personal liberties is less important than protecting people from being offended.

Nonsense, for the longest time no one gave a damn about certain other Americans personal liberties. For me, personal liberties, civil or constitutional rights are the very center of the fight ahead.

Now that I think of it a little harder, I am having trouble seeing certain differences between those two items. They both are speech-like

4 - White people have privilege, and are racist by default.

You'd have to be living under a rock in an isolated forest to not notice that in a place like America that whites have been given advantage over others. And no, whites aren't racist by default. No one is ever racist by default.

Well the thing is, we have a complicated history, and I don't know if it's quite that cut and dry. My grandpa ran away from appalachian kentucky young, because of some bad confrontation with his stepdad, apparently. He settled in a different state after going to world world war 2, perhaps underage, and we have no connection to, or knoweldge of family down there. My dad broke his body down in a construction accident. The suburban environment around me made me feel pretty alien and unwanted, because I didn't measure up to their high expectations. You can youtube plenty of homelessness stories that show white people experiencing that problem, along with everyone else

But I imagine that yeah, at certain times in history, and in the present, some of them have/had an advantage, though it isn't clear how that is to be described, or if doesn't do some kind of long-term damage. I mean, if it results in whites being disliked more than they are liked, then it's not an advantage worth having, I would assume. Everyone probably ultimately wants to be liked

8 - Objectivity, critical thinking, and logic are tools of the oppressors.

No they're not. Oppressors use the distortion of truths and facts to they're advantage. They still don't use objectivity, critical thinking or logic as tools.

I might also add, that it also seems to be the case there is a strong element of mystery in the fact of human life. It's not entirely clear what our goals are supposed to be, or what it is we are supposed to believe. Hence the existence of many religions , politcal systems , etc.

10 - Diversity (in DEI), is based on race, gender, and sexuality more than on diversity of ideas.

Okay this is sort of correct. But it's operated as a "half-truth". Because those other things mentioned could philosophically be considered ideas or abstracts anyway.

Yeah, I guess you're right. There is a bit of mystery in the question of what it is we are, perhaps ironically, as we are more 'us' than we are any other thing. I suppose. That is to say, perhaps we know more about gravity, or what trees or rocks are, than we know about what we are, in concrete detail

5 - White cultures are more colonist and imperialist than non-white cultures.

No one believes this. The Mongol empire, the empire of Japan, colonial Britain. All the same things with different names.

History is also a story of tools / expansion techniques that come into existence, perhaps during times when moralism is not very developed. I imagine if the Mongols didn't have such and such battle tactics or technology edges, (I don't really know anything about them) then one can imagine that they could not expand

 

[Argentbear]

That's not exactly what my arguments have been.

To recap, many posters on this thread have argued - more or less - "people don't believe the things on your list". In response to that claim, I brought up the two best selling authors to prove that - in fact - many people believe the things on my list.

But that doesn't prove that anyone believes your OP list.

Lots of people buy supermarket tabloids but that isn't evidence that what the tabloids print is true or that anyone reading it believes what they print is true.

 

[Kathryn]

Isn't your son biracial? I would think he would be a proponent of Diversity, Equality, Inclusion, even if not a fan of the emphasis placed upon the label.

Personally I see the label as a modern day version of "token," and feel we should be able to live the belief without the labeling. I get it that we as a society, as a whole, aren't there yet, and unfortunately having to draw attention to it just prolongs the need, IMO. It's a catch 22 situation.

Yes, my son is biracial but wrong is just wrong.

 

[Kathryn]

So your son is upset because the military is trying to practice "diversity, equity, and inclusion"?

Because of the way they are going about it, which seems over the top to him.

 

[Kathryn]

how so?

I'd actually rather not say other than to say that he's not happy with the way it manifests.

 

[wellwisher]

Funny, I always thought that being woke meant being sensitive to injustice. Easy to remember.

I found this definition;

the behaviour and attitudes of people who are sensitive to social and political injustice. Collins English Dictionary.

The problem is all this "social Injustice" is always defined in a way to benefit the Democrat party. That makes it a scam. What is the social justice of calling Trump Hitler to where now there are assassination attempts? If woke was about social justice, such exaggerated stereotypes, all without proof, would not be tolerated, but since it benefits the DNC, the dual standard applies.

The First woke commandment is; Free speech is less important than protecting people from being offended. But that only applies to Dems. If you are not with the clan, offending is open game.

What about the social injustice of flooding cities and towns with illegal immigrants, thereby adding a social burden upon citizens, who never ask for this? There are enough Leftist who say they want illegal immigration. Justice would be to fill up their homes and cities, only. The fine print of woke is all benefits only go to card carrying member of the DNC, even at the expanse of others. Two tiered justice is not justice.

DEI is made from the same template. For example, the most repressed groups of Blacks, in the US are Republican Blacks. The leaders of the DNC will resort to old segregation slander terms, like "Uncle Tom, when addressing Judge Clarence Thomas. He is actually more of a minority compared all members of the DEI, but you will find none of his kind in DEI, since it is scam to install DNC operatives. How many religious people are in the DEI, since they take a lot of crap from liberals.

The titles woke and DEI sound good, but it are really a misdirections. like the Inflation Reduction act that caused inflation. Then again it was the DNC that invented segregated; two separated culture. Now segregation is based on political parties and DEI, with all the restrictions not on the DNC side.

The term hate speech is also a scam. Why isn't all speech against Trump, defined as hate speech since the word hate is often in the sentence? One can lose a job if the same word was directed against a Democrat. The answer is if it benefits the DNC, the rules change. Hate speech is really a tactic to shut down discussions that the DNC loses.

Trump does not use hate, but will use comedy and insults, which are not hate. Who would feel the need to attack Krazy Kamala, and who will feel the need to attack Trump as Hitler incarnated who is a threat to Democracy. Which is more dangerous. I would say woke. The RNC called it like it was which made the scam fizzle out.

 

[Argentbear]

I'd actually rather not say other than to say that he's not happy with the way it manifests.

Then why did you bring it up?

 

[Kathryn]

Here are a few issues that I have with the Haitian immigrants to an area near me:

First of all, when I tried to do a search ("how many Haitian immigrants in Springfrield, Ohio are working?") the only figure that would come up was the number of immigrants, which I know cannot be right, since they have kids, parents, etc.

Secondly, the immigrants have been an issue since at least April and May, when several people went to the DC area to lobby for more federal help.

Finally, this from the Springfield newspaper:
The center at 1530 S. Yellow Springs St. sees a large number of people seeking services such as help setting up and maintaining accounts with Columbia Gas and Ohio Edison, obtaining food stamps, Medicaid, work permits and car insurance, Rose-Thamar Joseph, the center’s secretary and a board member, said.

Haitian immigrants in Springfield: What our reporting has found

Immigrants from Haiti have poured into Springfield the last five years, and the estimates grow monthly, with city officials now saying the number could be 15,000 to 20,000 new residents among a population that had numbered just under 60,000 prior.

www.springfieldnewssun.com

Oh and I got this from CBS - there were about 7,000 jobs but about 15000 immigrants so hmmmmm....wonder how that's working out for everyone?

 

[Kathryn]

Then why did you bring it up?

Because I can.

 

[Argentbear]

I found this definition;

The problem is all this "social Injustice" is always defined in a way to benefit the Democrat party.

Social injustice is the unequal treatment of people in a society

How does the definition benefit the Democratic party?

That makes it a scam. What is the social justice of calling Trump Hitler to where now there are assassination attempts? If woke was about social justice, such exaggerated stereotypes, all without proof, would not be tolerated, but since it benefits the DNC, the dual standard applies.

You just said that calling Trump Hitler and assassination attempts are without proof and exaggerated

The First woke commandment is; Free speech is less important than protecting people from being offended.

Says who?

But that only applies to Dems. If you are not with the clan, offending is open game.

On Aug 27, Trump called John Kelly his former chief of staff a 'terrible, stupid person'

Is Trump now a democrat?

What about the social injustice of flooding cities and towns with illegal immigrants, thereby adding a social burden upon citizens, who never ask for this?

Where is this happening?

There are enough Leftist who say they want illegal immigration.

Name them

Justice would be to fill up their homes and cities, only. The fine print of woke is all benefits only go to card carrying member of the DNC, even at the expanse of others. Two tiered justice is not justice.

What benefits?

DEI is made from the same template. For example, the most repressed groups of Blacks, in the US are Republican Blacks.

How is Mark Keith Robinson being repressed?

The leaders of the DNC will resort to old segregation slander terms, like "Uncle Tom, when addressing Judge Clarence Thomas. He is actually more of a minority compared all members of the DEI, but you will find none of his kind in DEI, since it is scam to install DNC operatives. How many religious people are in the DEI, since they take a lot of crap from liberals.

how many?

Then again it was the DNC that invented segregated; two separated culture. Now segregation is based on political parties and DEI, with all the restrictions not on the DNC side.

the DNC traveled through the south forcing business to put up "white only" signs?

The term hate speech is also a scam. Why isn't all speech against Trump, defined as hate speech since the word hate is often in the sentence?

Do you even know what hate speech is?

One can lose a job if the same word was directed against a Democrat.

Who exactly has lost their job in this manner

The answer is if it benefits the DNC, the rules change. Hate speech is really a tactic to shut down discussions that the DNC loses.

How does that work?

Trump does not use hate, but will use comedy and insults, which are not hate.

you are right his claims about immigrants are a laugh riot

Who would feel the need to attack Krazy Kamala, and who will feel the need to attack Trump as Hitler incarnated who is a threat to Democracy.

when did Harris say Trump was Hitler incarnated?

Which is more dangerous. I would say woke. The RNC called it like it was which made the scam fizzle out.

THe lies you are posting seem pretty dangerous

 

[PureX]

Because of the way they are going about it, which seems over the top to him.

They either are or they are not. There is no "over the top" regarding diversity, equity, and inclusion.

 

[PureX]

What about the jobs issue? Are there only so many jobs available in the town? How do you think that more will be created, if that is what needs to happen? And also the issue of developing more land over there, that could either be used for farming, or just open nature

I think maybe there also is a different issue with immigration, that being that newcomers are not owners of hard assets, usually, so that means they will instead pay for services, in regard to things humans need. That allows for more interest-type, or rent service type debt, probably, to exist. Whereas, a society with little immigration might, I guess, reach some kind of 'ownership saturation'

An increase in population means more commerce, and therefor more jobs. That stuff will work itself out unless the predatory capitalists (private equity groups) come and bilk their local economy from the outside. Which is what happened in Springfield, Ohio, and what is happening to local communities all across the country. They are ruthless, and have no concern whatever for the well being of the communities they destroy.

And folks like Donald Trump try to turn us all against each other when this happens. So we won't see who the real predators are.

And a half dozen of these groups now own most of the businesses and property in the United States. And they are gobbling up Canada and other nations as well. They are literally destroying the world with their greed. While we remain oblivious.

 

[Spice]

Oh and I got this from CBS - there were about 7,000 jobs but about 15000 immigrants so hmmmmm....wonder how that's working out for everyone?

These numbers make sense to me. Oftentimes a family only has one work permit, and as you said, there are children, etc. With quite a few, not all, Mexican workers in my community, the adult couples have one work permit and one domestic. Those staying here on a domestic are not allowed to have a job.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I found this article which was rather interesting, outlining a concept called "prescriptive racism," as opposed to traditional racism.

There’s a kind of racism embedded in DEI







A specific example of the "prescriptive racism" the writer describes:





The writer gives a more detailed explanation of prescriptive racism:





The writer then goes on to point out that prescriptive racism has become institutionalized and become a central component of DEI.





In a nutshell, the writer is criticizing DEI as discouraging individuality and freedom of choice.

Sounds like stuff that's been going on for awhile, even before DEI. Such as Colin Powel being the butt of jokes for being "white," or the racist who can't stand hearing Ebonics but put's a black man on a pedestal if he talks like a white man.