What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

[Jedster]

....
Passion of the Christ? People flocked to watch Jesus get beaten. Seriously that was a snuff film.

Couldn't agree more.
I happened to walk in when it was showing on a friend's TV; I watched for about 10 minutes before I left after makimg a comment about snuff movies.
Unbelievable.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

There is no evangelical Islam, you come to Islam.

Don't you mean "come back" to Islam?

"Not peaceful" does not necessarily mean violent, but Islam is often demonstrably violent. Over the past few days many modern examples of this have been shown. "Not peaceful" also means allowing that violence to happen, or approving of it. Unless Islam is bending over backwards for their neighbors and those of different beliefs - and this is demonstrably not the case - Islam is not peaceful.

Islam is not a religion of peace.
Christianity is not a religion of peace.
Judaism is not a religion of peace.
Baha'ism is not a religion of peace.
Buddhism is not a religion of peace.
Hinduism is not a religion of peace.
Paganism is not a religion of peace.

There is no such thing as a religion of peace, for we are all humans.

 

[J2hapydna]

From my understanding, not really, although they are perhaps not quite so condemning as Twelvers. Anyway, it's the doctrine of Imamah which makes it.

I'm not sure how condemning they are. Some of them (Tabiri?) I think believe neither of the first three caliphs sinned. The Sulemani think the first two didn't sin.

Btw, They don't believe in the infallibility of their Imams and currently don't have an imam. So they are not very Imami in my opinion. Do you know that sunni also perform Taqlid to Imams? Taqlid - Wikipedia

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Thank God for the wisdom of the Supreme Court in blocking the Muslim ban and apparently they do believe Muslims are peaceful, and they have the power.

Don't thank god, thank the Supreme Court. However to the point, it was blocked because it's unconstitutional. Because - non-peaceful or not - the United States allows all religions. (Imagine that! Some good coming from "The West"!)

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

There is no logic in assigning a lone attribute, be it peaceful or violent or whatever, to a whole culture.

And yet here you are, arguing and ranting until you're red in the fingers, that Islam is a "religion of peace". In other words, here you are assigning a lone attribute to a whole culture. Illogically.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is no logic in assigning a lone attribute, be it peaceful or violent or whatever, to a whole culture.

I see what you mean, but that can be overdone. How much logic is there is saying that all Muslims are monotheistic, for instance?

 

[J2hapydna]

Oh, everyone understands that. Christianity itself also does not have a pope, only one sect in it does...

In addition to the Catholic Church, Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy, Coptics etc all have their own Pope like figures. So I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[J2hapydna]

How can Islam be considered a religion of peace when it does advocate both violence and war under many circumstances and the God it worships in turn often use violence in His acts? There are religions of peace....jainisim, buddhism, Amish etc. who completely and totally eschew violence and forbids it's practitioners from violence under any circumstance ( some even against animals). So , sorry, your religion does not qualify.

Define Islam for me to understand what you are talking about as "your religion". For example, do you consider the Orthodox usul e Fiqh an essential part of my religion?

As I have said before I consider Islam to be a collection of several religions

 

[sayak83]

In addition to the Catholic Church, Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy, Coptics etc all have their own Pope like figures. So I'm not sure what you mean.

The orthodox church have their own separate leaders in different areas (this head of Greek Orthodox and head of Russian orthodox, though they belong to the same denomination). You said,

As a westerner it might be hard to understand for you, but notice that Islam doesn't have a Pope;

And neither does Christianity. Is different denominations have different types of leadership. Some sects have a council headed by a pope, others simply have a council (Protestants and Pentecostals) and some in between (Anglicans). This is no different from the different types of leadership found in Islam

Grand Mufti - Wikipedia
Murshid - Wikipedia
Marja' - Wikipedia

I do not see the difference.

 

[Kirran]

I'm not sure how condemning they are. Some of them (Tabiri?) I think believe neither of the first three caliphs sinned. The Sulemani think the first two didn't sin.

Btw, They don't believe in the infallibility of their Imams and currently don't have an imam. So they are not very Imami in my opinion. Do you know that sunni also perform Taqlid to Imams? Taqlid - Wikipedia

Right, I said earlier they don't adhere to Imamic infallibility. The Twelvers don't currently have an Imam either.

Ah sure, but's hardly Sunni doctrine.

@Sakeenah, will you comment on Zaydis being Shias or Sunnis?

 

[sayak83]

Define Islam for me to understand what you are talking about as "your religion". For example, do you consider the Orthodox usul e Fiqh an essential part of my religion?

As I have said before I consider Islam to be a collection of several religions

This is not supposed to be confusing. If I say "your country" will you be confused and say "define what i mean by your country when it is composed of millions of citizens with many parties, ideologies and way of life with multiple interpretation of its constitution?" If you are a conscientious objector to war based on your interpretation of the Constitution and your allegiance to a specific party within it (say you are a Gandhian in India), it does not mean that your country is a pacifist country. See the difference?

 

[Kirran]

This is not supposed to be confusing. If I say "your country" will you be confused and say "define what i mean by your country when it is composed of millions of citizens with many parties, ideologies and way of life with multiple interpretation of its constitution?" If you are a conscientious objector to war based on your interpretation of the Constitution and your allegiance to a specific party within it (say you are a Gandhian in India), it does not mean that your country is a pacifist country. See the difference?

Ah come on sayak, an ideology is not a country. A country, as you're discussing it here, is defined by its central authority and the stances of that central authority. In a religion people have their own authority.

I can't say Hinduism is a pacifist religion, because not all people's Hinduism is pacifist, even though mine is. But I also can't say that Hinduism is a violent religion, or that Hinduism (without qualifications) is to blame for X, Y and Z.

 

[sayak83]

Ah come on sayak, an ideology is not a country. A country, as you're discussing it here, is defined by its central authority and the stances of that central authority. In a religion people have their own authority.

I can't say Hinduism is a pacifist religion, because not all people's Hinduism is pacifist, even though mine is. But I also can't say that Hinduism is a violent religion, or that Hinduism (without qualifications) is to blame for X, Y and Z.

I have already said that I would welcome the growth of more liberal and rationalistic version of Islam. But much of Islam, and most of its schools today interpret Quran and Hadith in a way that is in-commensurable with the idea that it is a religion of peace. Thus, as far as the question "Is Islam a religion of peace?" can be made meaningful and sensible, the answer would be no.

Of course Hinduism is not a religion of peace overall, though specific groups within it may be very pacifist.

 

[Kirran]

Of course Hinduism is not a religion of peace overall, though specific groups within it may be very pacifist.

I think much the same can be said of Islam, although certainly the pacifistic and liberal groups are much smaller.

Hey, you wanna support such groups? I can tell you who to donate money to

 

[sayak83]

I think much the same can be said of Islam, although certainly the pacifistic and liberal groups are much smaller.

Hey, you wanna support such groups? I can tell you who to donate money to

You mean the money I don't have

 

[Kirran]

You mean the money I don't have

Every penny of it.

I can tell you good couple Facebook pages to follow if you want to be keeping up with those spheres in Islam either way. Assuming you have Facebook. If not, I think I've run out of ways to help you.

Although I could still recommend a book!

 

[sayak83]

You mean the money I don't have

Currently I am planning to join the academics in protesting the idiotic immigration bans of Trump. So I will help by activity.

20 Nobel laureates, thousands of academics sign protest of Trump immigration order

 

[Kirran]

Currently I am planning to join the academics in protesting the idiotic immigration bans of Trump. So I will help by activity.

20 Nobel laureates, thousands of academics sign protest of Trump immigration order

I suppose that'll do...

I'm not sure that I can do anything about Trump from the UK. I won't try.

 

[Shad]

Thank God for the wisdom of the Supreme Court in blocking the Muslim ban and apparently they do believe Muslims are peaceful, and they have the power.

It was federal courts in two states. That is not SCOTUS. Also the block on applies to those in travel transition within America. People are still being turned away from foreign departure points by customs and airlines.

 

[sayak83]

I suppose that'll do...

I'm not sure that I can do anything about Trump from the UK. I won't try.

Please ask Doctor Who to visit America. Its possible Trump is an alien in disguise capable of hypnotizing humans.