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What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

Shad

Veteran Member
The so called Muslims you are talking about were followers of your psycho pals- the leader of Mecca and his son who should have been executed under Islamic law after the city fell to MP.

I was pointing out your statement make little sense.

If not executed, their hands and feet should have been amputated (if no prisons were available).

Yes lets just go for bust, hands and feet too!

However, they managed to take advantage of the forgiving and peaceful nature of MP and manipulate a pardon for themselves. Then in time, as psychopath would, they killed their opposition, took control of the Islamic empire, subverted the laws and teachings of MP. Then, created MP in their own image in their books that were written in their courts.

Bakr was a psychopath? He ruled after Muhammad. What about Uman and Uthamn, them too? All three used the same laws of Muhammaed, Jiyza and all long before the Dynasty period.

The people who really knew MP such as Najashi, Abo Bakr etc and their children had no chance with these psychos in power.

Like the people I mentioed above that did the same thing as the Dynasty. Your ignorance of history is showing.

He was never exiled.

He left Mecca, that is self-imposed exile. Get a dictionary.

In your world killing slaves may not represent persecution in mine it does.

Strawman. I never said killing slaves was a good thing at all. BTW Muhammad killed slaves too for mocking him.

Attempts on one's life may not be persecution in your circle of friends

Strawman and smearing tactic based on your strawman. Try again son

People leaving for Ethiopia to escape and being pursued, may not be persecution in your world

Strawman. Try again son.

Peace offering lol

Look at Islamic history, it openly states he refused to talk to the Meccan leaders. Your ignorance is showing again.
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
Sorry Shad, I can't respond today, there is so much good news around, I had to celebrate hopefully I will get back to you tomorrow.

My son has been offered an opportunity to conduct research with his maths professor. In addition my son has been offered a great internship opportunity by one of the best energy trading companies in the world. Since you are so enamored by reading comprehension, his ranks in the top 2% of college graduates. He has turned out to be quite the polymath with an IQ consistently measuring above 150. In addition, yesterday I completed the sale of some real estate whose value has increased nearly 70% in the last 3 years. So you can imagine I am ecstatic.

Hopefully, I will address whatever is on your mind tomorrow.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Sorry Shad, I can't respond today, there is so much good news around, I had to celebrate hopefully I will get back to you tomorrow.

My son has been offered an opportunity to conduct research with his maths professor. In addition my son has been offered a great internship opportunity by one of the best energy trading companies in the world. Since you are so enamored by reading comprehension, his ranks in the top 2% of college graduates. He has turned out to be quite the polymath with an IQ consistently measuring above 150. In addition, yesterday I completed the sale of some real estate whose value has increased nearly 70% in the last 3 years. So you can imagine I am ecstatic.

Hopefully, I will address whatever is on your mind tomorrow.

Congratulation to you and your son.
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
Bakr was a psychopath? He ruled after Muhammad. What about Uman and Uthamn, them too? All three used the same laws of Muhammaed, Jiyza and all long before the Dynasty period

The Arab historians generally tend to cast MP and his companions the Rashidun in your psycho pals image to justify his cruel rule. However, the flaws in these books are obvious and cannot be harmonized with the Quran. They also make a mockery of reality

As far as Abo Bak and Umer are concerned, they repealed laws passed by the other famous psychopath and megalomaniac in this tale, the Christian Emperor, Heraclius- who ordered the murder of all Jews in his empire. Umer could have just as easily looked the other way and pretended he didn't know or even grandfathered these laws, but he didn't. He actively stopped the murder. So he was a good man in my opinion. In addition he restored the Jewish exilarchs by permitting them to wear their signet rings and allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem that Heraclius had forbidden. Similarly, Ali settled in the Jewish town of Kuffa, outside of Baghdad. He wouldn't have done that if the Jews were unhappy with him. In addition the exilarchs wouldn't have supported Ali and his son when the psycho son attacked Ali.

So, yes, Jizya was imposed by the Rashidun but only on followers of the other psychopath in this tale, Heraclius when they refused to pay taxes and offered armed resistance. However, no Jizya was imposed on peaceful Jews and Christians such as those in the Axumite Empire under the Muslim Christian ruler Najashi
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
Why do you believe non-Muslims should have been subject to Islamic law when a) it wasn't established when they committed their 'crimes' and' b) they weren't living under Islamic law?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you saying that if the Meccan leaders made laws to kill all Muslims then Muslims should not have defended themselves because the law created by the Meccan leaders gave the Meccan leaders a right to kill Muslims? Or did I misunderstand your question? Thanks
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
He left Mecca, that is self-imposed exile. Get a dictionary.

LOL

There is a vast difference between exile and a self imposed exile. Just as there is a vast difference between running clockwise and and running anti clockwise. We don't say someone ran clockwise when we mean they ran anti clockwise.

I believe this was your original statement:

Except Muhammad preached for 10 years in Mecca before he was exiled
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
Strawman and smearing tactic based on your strawman. Try again son

I have no idea why you are calling the attempts on MPs life, murder of slaves and the first migration to Abyssinia a straw man. Are you saying these events are not in the Arab fairytale or have you randomly decided to reject it to defend your pals the psychopathic leader of Mecca and his son because it interferes with your pro Islamist agenda
 
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Notanumber

A Free Man
These two have all the answers.


Very interesting and educational!

Are there any Muslims that ask difficult questions about their religion?
 
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J2hapydna

Active Member
Shad, it seems your agenda and that of the Islamists is one i.e. as I said,


The Arab historians generally tend to cast MP and his companions the Rashidun in your psycho pals image to justify his cruel rule. However, the flaws in these books are obvious and cannot be harmonized with the Quran. They also make a mockery of reality

Consequently you cherry pick randomly as they do
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I have no idea why you are calling the attempts on MPs life, murder of slaves and the first migration to Abyssinia a straw man. Are you saying these events are not in the Arab fairytale or have you randomly decided to reject it to defend your pals the psychopathic leader of Mecca and his son because it interferes with your pro Islamist agenda

No I am attacking your claim that I think these acts are justified or moral. Just as you are doing right now creating a strawman to smear me. Try again son.

The Arab historians generally tend to cast MP and his companions the Rashidun in your psycho pals image to justify his cruel rule. However, the flaws in these books are obvious and cannot be harmonized with the Quran. They also make a mockery of reality

You mean the same authors which the majority of your information is from? Hilarious.

As far as Abo Bak and Umer are concerned, they repealed laws passed by the other famous psychopath and megalomaniac in this tale, the Christian Emperor, Heraclius- who ordered the murder of all Jews in his empire.

Do you know what repeal means? Neither Bakr nor Umar repelled anything as they were not citizens of Byzantium nor a power within Byzantium. The Caliphate was not the successor to Byzantium nor a part of it.


Umer could have just as easily looked the other way and pretended he didn't know or even grandfathered these laws, but he didn't. He actively stopped the murder. So he was a good man in my opinion. In addition he restored the Jewish exilarchs by permitting them to wear their signet rings and allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem that Heraclius had forbidden. Similarly, Ali settled in the Jewish town of Kuffa, outside of Baghdad. He wouldn't have done that if the Jews were unhappy with him. In addition the exilarchs wouldn't have supported Ali and his son when the psycho son attacked Ali.

Kuffa was not a Jewish town, it was founded by Umar. More so the lands around Kuffa were Jewish according to Islamic history which Umar gave to Arabs then he relocated the Jews.

So, yes, Jizya was imposed by the Rashidun but only on followers of the other psychopath in this tale,


No it was imposed Christians and Jews not only Meccans.

Heraclius when they refused to pay taxes and offered armed resistance.

Heraclius was not a subject of Muslims. So he merely rejected people demanding money from him.


However, no Jizya was imposed on peaceful Jews and Christians such as those in the Axumite Empire under the Muslim Christian ruler Najashi

Najashi was a Christian not a Muslim.

Its probably because you haven't understood how Najashi was a Muslim too.

No you are stating ahistorical myth nothing more. There is no evidence he was Muslim.

LOL

There is a vast difference between exile and a self imposed exile.

Yes there is. So what? He was still in exile

Just as there is a vast difference between running clockwise and and running anti clockwise.

Not really.

We don't say someone ran clockwise when we mean they ran anti clockwise.

This just shows you do not understand the word exile

I believe this was your original statement:

Yes. And? Reading comprehension. Did I say he was exiled by the Meccans? No...

Shad, it seems your agenda and that of the Islamists is one i.e. as I said,

Hardly. Another smear tactic, nothing more

Consequently you cherry pick randomly as they do

And you make up history as you.

Demonstrate said claim of cherry picking. Have at it son.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you saying that if the Meccan leaders made laws to kill all Muslims then Muslims should not have defended themselves because the law created by the Meccan leaders gave the Meccan leaders a right to kill Muslims? Or did I misunderstand your question? Thanks

No. I'm talking about these men you keep calling psychos who, gathering from what you're saying about them, committed unspecific crimes against Muhammad and his Muslim followers while Mecca's people still kept faith with their gods. You seem to believe that Muhammad should have had these men punished according to the strictures of Islamic law once he conquered Mecca and forcibly Islamised it despite the fact:
  1. The city was not under Islamic law when the men committed these crimes;
  2. These men were not Muslims when they committed these crimes.
 

Electus de Lumine

Magician of Light
Salm and Salam are the root words for the “Islam” which mean peace and tranquility. The importance of peace and tranquility has been pointed to in the Quran numerous times.

The Quran says: “But if the enemy shows a tendency to peace, do thou (also) show a tendency to peace…”

What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

It is inaccurate.
 

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
It is inaccurate.

How so?

This is what one of the American generals had to say: "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

Do you think any of Islam generals would think its fun to shoot some people? Please.
Regards.
 

Electus de Lumine

Magician of Light
How so?

This is what one of the American generals had to say: "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

Do you think any of Islam generals would think its fun to shoot some people? Please.
Regards.


Oh I think both American and Iranian generals can find it fun to shoot people.

Both Christnaity and Islam have many verses that capture Yahweh's violence.
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
No. I'm talking about these men you keep calling psychos who, gathering from what you're saying about them, committed unspecific crimes against Muhammad and his Muslim followers while Mecca's people still kept faith with their gods. You seem to believe that Muhammad should have had these men punished according to the strictures of Islamic law once he conquered Mecca and forcibly Islamised it despite the fact:
  1. The city was not under Islamic law when the men committed these crimes;
  2. These men were not Muslims when they committed these crimes.

Perhaps I will understand what you are saying if you tell me how you think people should be punished in this situation?
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
In answer to the original post, I believe it is time for a rebranding. Now that the truth has been exposed, Islam should be called what it really is, the Religion of Fear.
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
These two have all the answers.


Very interesting and educational!

Are there any Muslims that ask difficult questions about their religion?

This video provides a fair description of Orthodox Sharia based Sunni Islam spread by the Umayyads. The Sufis, non-denominational Sunni Muslims, Sir Syedan rationalists and Shias etc don't use all of these books that are described as the Islamic trinity.
 
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