What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

[J2hapydna]

Do you have a link to any mainstream religion or ideology that currently condones slavery?

Most of these Muslim countries became western colonies 200 years or so ago. At that time Muslim laws were similar to ours. However, as ours continued to evolve in time, their's were suspended as they were ruled by our laws. So when these countries got their freedom in the 40s and 50s, they found themselves under an antiquated system of laws . To make things worse we wanted them to remain backwards during the 80s to fight the Russians. So it's quite dishonest of you to criticize them for not modernizing.

Do you have no memory of who defeated the Russians and how big a threat they were? now that the Soviet Union has been neutralized by the mujahideen perhaps you should come down from your high and mighty pedestal and take a closer look at how that goal was accomplished

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

Nothing. There's also nothing particularly useful about doing it either. I doubt making such a statement is going to convince anybody who doesn't already hold that belief.

 

[Notanumber]

Most of these Muslim countries became western colonies 200 years or so ago. At that time Muslim laws were similar to ours. However, as ours continued to evolve in time, their's were suspended as they were ruled by our laws. So when these countries got their freedom in the 40s and 50s, they found themselves under an antiquated system of laws . To make things worse we wanted them to remain backwards during the 80s to fight the Russians. So it's quite dishonest of you to criticize them for not modernizing.

Do you have no memory of who defeated the Russians and how big a threat they were? now that the Soviet Union has been neutralized by the mujahideen perhaps you should come down from your high and mighty pedestal and take a closer look at how that goal was accomplished

From this - Islamist Calls for Slavery's Legalization

Mutairi then gives an example from the war in Chechnya: "Surely there are female Russian captives. So go and buy those and sell them here in Kuwait; better that than have our men engage in forbidden sexual relations. I don't see any problem in this, no problem at all." She invokes Harun ar-Rashid, the Abbasid caliph, as an exemplar of male virtue: "The greatest example we have is Harun al-Rashid: when he died, he had 2,000 sex slaves—so it's okay, nothing wrong with it." Mutairi concludes with a supplication to God: "Oh I truly wish this for Kuwait, Allah willing—Oh Lord, Lord, you are bountiful."

 

[J2hapydna]

From this - Islamist Calls for Slavery's Legalization

Mutairi then gives an example from the war in Chechnya: "Surely there are female Russian captives. So go and buy those and sell them here in Kuwait; better that than have our men engage in forbidden sexual relations. I don't see any problem in this, no problem at all." She invokes Harun ar-Rashid, the Abbasid caliph, as an exemplar of male virtue: "The greatest example we have is Harun al-Rashid: when he died, he had 2,000 sex slaves—so it's okay, nothing wrong with it." Mutairi concludes with a supplication to God: "Oh I truly wish this for Kuwait, Allah willing—Oh Lord, Lord, you are bountiful."

Please share something about your religious background. Your understanding of western history appears to have holes in it.

There is one definition to secularism, if that's what you are talking about, which is a "separation of state and religion".

And I cannot comment on the Axumite empire because I don't know enough about it. And I cannot comment on Sufism or the Sufis too, because I don't know much about their history.

Surely, you don't expect me make comments on things that I have no knowledge or limited knowledge?

As to the Umayyad caliphate, it was never "secular state" or "secular empire". It was theocratic empire, as the one before it, and the successor caliphate afterward.

You are saying what I just said, the Umayyad caliphate and the Byzantine Empire were theocratic. So we agree. However, there was another Islamic state known as the Axumite Empire that had all the elements of a secular state under the banner of Islam that wasn't a religion. This was a state that was ruled by a Christian Muslim friend and disciple of Muhammad the prophet (MP) known as Najashi. In this state Najashi didn't make Islam the state religion. He didn't make state sponsored masjids for worship. He didn't set up courts that meted justice according to the sharia. He didn't require Christians and Jews to pay Jizya. He didn't require his subjects to wage holy Jihad on his neighbors or join the Umayyads in conquests etc. He was a Christian Muslim with a state in Africa on which MP had forbidden the Arabs from waging Jihad. His concept Islam was different than that of a religion followed by the Umayyads. I'm not sure if you were aware of this?

Also, I'm not sure if you are aware of the role Averroes played in the life of Thomas Aquinas and the development of secularism in the west. Averroes is often depicted as an Ethiopian Muslim in western paintings and considered the founder of secularism in the west. Did you know this?

 

[J2hapydna]

gnostic,

Please read this short description of the role Averroes played in the development of secularism in the west:

" Some scholars consider Averroës to be the founding father of secular thought in Western Europe"

Averroism - By Movement / School - The Basics of Philosophy

 

[J2hapydna]

Do you have a link to any mainstream religion or ideology that currently condones slavery?

The KKK and several supremacist white nationalistchurches in the USA

 

[psychoslice]

With what is happening around the world, I cannot see how anyone can call Islam a peaceful religion, it just isn't.

 

[sovietchild]

With what is happening around the world, I cannot see how anyone can call Islam a peaceful religion, it just isn't.

And, what is happening around the world? Aren't some people fighting for earth riches?

 

[psychoslice]

And, what is happening around the world? Aren't some people fighting for earth riches?

You certainly don't watch the news do you ?.

 

[J2hapydna]

Do you have a link to any mainstream religion or ideology that currently condones slavery?

As much as I find the religion promoted by the Umayyads disturbing, let's not confuse slavery under the religion of the Arabs with the race based garbage that happened in America.

The slave in Arabia had to be fed and clothed the same as the master. In addition any children born to slaves fathered by the owner automatically inherited freedom and the same property rights as his other children from free women. In other words the children of the slave could use the inherited wealth to free their mother and her other family members. So generations of Africans were not perpetually born into slavery as in the Americas- a system that was completely disgusting and revolting beyond anything we can imagine.

 

[Shad]

As much as I find the religion promoted by the Umayyads disturbing, let's not confuse slavery under the religion of the Arabs with the race based garbage that happened in America.

The slave in Arabia had to be fed and clothed the same as the master. In addition any children born to slaves fathered by the owner automatically inherited freedom and the same property rights as his other children from free women. In other words the children of the slave could use the inherited wealth to free their mother and her other family members. So generations of Africans were not perpetually born into slavery as in the Americas- a system that was completely disgusting and revolting beyond anything we can imagine.

Slavery in America was based on race. Islam's was based on religion. Being nice to one's slaves does not make slavery moral. The slave owners in the South made the same excuses you have above. They would argue that since slaves are key to their business success treating slaves well helps the business.

 

[Shad]

Secularism also demands payment of taxes from followers of all religions whether they believe in secularism or not.

It taxes citizen regardless of their religion. Islam taxes people based on their religion

Those who don't believe in secular ism have to be humiliated into paying what they don't want to pay

Secularism isn't a religion.

Also, Islam isn't a religion, it's a Din, just as secularism isn't a religion

Islam is by definition a religion. Hand wave all you want. No one with an ounce of integrity or intelligence would argue otherwise

 

[YmirGF]

As much as I find the religion promoted by the Umayyads disturbing, let's not confuse slavery under the religion of the Arabs with the race based garbage that happened in America.

The slave in Arabia had to be fed and clothed the same as the master. In addition any children born to slaves fathered by the owner automatically inherited freedom and the same property rights as his other children from free women. In other words the children of the slave could use the inherited wealth to free their mother and her other family members. So generations of Africans were not perpetually born into slavery as in the Americas- a system that was completely disgusting and revolting beyond anything we can imagine.

That is a seriously nuanced view of a despicable practice - a practice sanctioned by the god of Islam. It is noted that "children born to slaves" conveniently leaves out mention that sex with a slave was not consensual. Likewise, though it is true that many slaves were freed the unfortunate reality, again, simply ignored, was that there were always plenty of new slaves available to take their place. Yep, it was a real spiffy system.

 

[Notanumber]

Most of these Muslim countries became western colonies 200 years or so ago. At that time Muslim laws were similar to ours. However, as ours continued to evolve in time, their's were suspended as they were ruled by our laws. So when these countries got their freedom in the 40s and 50s, they found themselves under an antiquated system of laws . To make things worse we wanted them to remain backwards during the 80s to fight the Russians. So it's quite dishonest of you to criticize them for not modernizing.

Do you have no memory of who defeated the Russians and how big a threat they were? now that the Soviet Union has been neutralized by the mujahideen perhaps you should come down from your high and mighty pedestal and take a closer look at how that goal was accomplished

If only Muhammad had come down from his high and mighty pedestal instead of creating an ideology of misery and the mess that he has left for humanitarians to clean up.

European Immigration: Mainly Muslim, Mainly Male, Mainly Young

 

[J2hapydna]

That is a seriously nuanced view of a despicable practice - a practice sanctioned by the god of Islam. It is noted that "children born to slaves" conveniently leaves out mention that sex with a slave was not consensual. Likewise, though it is true that many slaves were freed the unfortunate reality, again, simply ignored, was that there were always plenty of new slaves available to take their place. Yep, it was a real spiffy system.

To think that one could mitigate the inhuman racist garbage called slavery in the Americas by suggesting there was just a nuanced difference between it and what Arabs practiced indicates that you have not come to terms with the hideous nature of what took place in the Americas. Are you by any chance a white American?

Once again, the fact that made American slavery hideous, inhuman and completely different than the Arab form was the race element. America kept generations of people in slavery into perpetuity without hope of escaping it. Among the Arabs, Slavery was a revolving door. You made war. You got caught. You became a slave (prisoner of war). You came out of slavery by buying your freedom and went about your business as a free man. If you were a woman and got pregnant by your master your child was born free and inherited the same as the other children of the master. So your children could buy your freedom. It wasn't a life sentence.

So for you to suggest that there is just a nuanced difference between spending a lifetime in prison- from the day you were born until the day you die with no hope of your children becoming free and spending a few years in slavery is unsettling.

 

[YmirGF]

To think that one could mitigate the inhuman racist garbage called slavery in the Americas by suggesting there was just a nuanced difference between it and what Arabs practiced indicates that you have not come to terms with the hideous nature of what took place in the Americas. Are you by any chance a white American?

Once again, the fact that made American slavery hideous, inhuman and completely different than the Arab form was the race element. America kept generations of people in slavery into perpetuity without hope of escaping it. Among the Arabs, Slavery was a revolving door. You made war. You got caught. You became a slave (prisoner of war). You came out of slavery by buying your freedom and went about your business as a free man. If you were a woman and got pregnant by your master your child was born free and inherited the same as the other children of the master. So your children could buy your freedom. It wasn't a life sentence.

So for you to suggest that there is just a nuanced difference between spending a lifetime in prison- from the day you were born until the day you die with no hope of your children becoming free and spending a few years in slavery is unsettling.

It would never occur to me to pat American's of yesteryear on their heads for their brutal practice of slavery. Full Stop.
It would never occur to me to pat Muslims on their head for their treatment of slaves. Full Stop.

Again, I note the nuanced wording you use here... "If you were a woman and got pregnant by your master" ... Why can you not say raped by your owner/master? Does the reality of the act get in the way of your narrative to white-wash Muslim slavery? The slave could not refuse sex! The sex slave was one of the most popular reasons for Muslims to have slaves and you want to make it sound noble and kind? Seriously? What bovine effluence are you trying to peddle?

Again, the American experience was heinous and brutal. Slaves were raped there too, but it never pretended to be a noble tradition.

 

[J2hapydna]

It is noted that "children born to slaves" conveniently leaves out mention that sex with a slave was not consensual

The fact that both Arab and white slave owners had sex with slaves is "equally" reprehensible. However the fact that an Arab owner's free children knew that their father was putting their inheritance in peril made a huge difference. The financial cost of having sex with a slave was enormous. So the Arabs were under family pressure to not engage in it. In contrast, the children of the white slave owner lost nothing if their father went about planting his seed. In fact the family increased the number of slaves they owned.

 

[YmirGF]

The fact that both Arab and white slave owners had sex with slaves is "equally" reprehensible. However the fact that an Arab owner's free children knew that their father was putting their inheritance in peril made a huge difference. The financial cost of having sex with a slave was enormous. So the Arabs were under family pressure to not engage in it. In contrast, the children of the white slave owner lost nothing if their father went about planting his seed. In fact the family increased the number of slaves they owned.

I'd drop this line completely. Putting a happy face on the effects of systemic rape is hardly a noble act. The mother will always be a rape victim, raped by a male who was doing something his deranged god allowed. In other words, he had a god given right to rape. Things don't get much more twisted than that and for you to attempt to make this sound not so bad is well beyond deplorable.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Why do you say Muhammad started hostilities? I thought it was Mecca pagans who started hostilities.

That's not surprising - your narrative won't let you see that the perpetrator as anything other than the victim. Muhammad was the one who ordered the caravan raids once he was in control of Medina. This was the first act of aggression between Muhammad-controlled Medina and Mecca.

 

[J2hapydna]

If only Muhammad had come down from his high and mighty pedestal instead of creating an ideology of misery and the mess that he has left for humanitarians to clean up.

European Immigration: Mainly Muslim, Mainly Male, Mainly Young

So fragile

Poor MP is a straw man. Did he even exist?

The psycho Heraclius with his Justinian code and his Arab counterpart the Umayyads who defeated him and adopted his values are the source of the problem

Our desire to see the Russians defeated at any cost, including Saudi revival of the Umayyad cult is the cause of our current predicament.