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What is wrong with calling Islam religion of peace?

sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Kirran said:
Western society is not a religion, do I need to say that?
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Religion is a particular system of faith. Faith is a complete trust in something. Europeans have a complete trust in democracy.

The word ‘religion’ lies in the Latin word ligare, to bind. Bind means cause to cohere in a single mass. Cohere means be united.
 
Kirran

Kirran

ॐ
Premium Member
I'll be honest, I think it's a problem when people support this narrative and try and twist it to make it moral, but acknowledge that it's pretty damn unreliable. We can't really trust the veracity of any of this. I respect Muslims who acknowledge that, as some do. I also respect the ones who really just haven't become very familiar with the doctrine on this period at all, and concentrate their faith on their own lives and the present.

sovietchild said:
Religion is a particular system of faith. Faith is a complete trust in something. Europeans have a complete trust in democracy.

The word ‘religion’ lies in the Latin word ligare, to bind. Bind means cause to cohere in a single mass. Cohere means be united.
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Westerners include Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, the irreligious, Hindus, Pagans, Zoroastrians...

Do all Europeans have a complete trust in democracy? I am surprised. I was born in the UK, and I do not support liberal democracy as a system, even.
 
sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
As far as I know, Muhammad had been preaching Islam in a way very hostile to the Meccans.

Al-Tabari:

Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- Yahya b. ‘Urwah b. al-Zubayr- his father ‘Urwah-‘Abdallah b. ‘Amr b. al-‘As: I said to him, "What was the worst attack you saw by Quraysh upon the Messenger of God when they openly showed their enmity to him?" He replied, "I was with them when their nobles assembled one day in the Hijr and discussed the Messenger of God. They said, ‘We have never seen the like of what we have endured from this man. He has derided our traditional values, abused our forefathers, reviled our religion, caused division among us, and insulted our gods. We have endured a great deal from him,’ or words to that effect. While they were saying this, the Messenger of God suddenly appeared and walked up and kissed the Black Stone. Then he passed by them while performing the circumambulation, and as he did so they made some slanderous remarks about him. I could see from the Messenger of God’s face that he had heard them, but he went on. When he passed the second time they made similar remarks, and I could see from his face that he had heard them, but again he went on. Then he passed them the third time, and they made similar remarks; but this time he stopped and said, ‘Hear, men of Quraysh. By Him in whose hand Muhammad’s soul rests, I have brought you slaughter.’ They were gripped by what he said, and it was as though every man of them had a bird perched on his head; even those of them who had been urging the severest measures against him previously spoke in conciliatory ways to him, using the politest expressions they could think of, and said, ‘Depart in true guidance, Abu al-Qasim; by God you were never ignorant.’

So the Meccans left him alone until they could no longer tolerate his derision of their way of life; a way of life which had not hurt Muhammad in any way. The Meccans had warned Muhammad over again that if he did not stop his derisive remarks, they would put a stop to him, so to speak. Muhammad continued reviling them and their gods; he slaughtered poets who mocked him in verse (Asma Bint Marwan, in Ibn Ishaq's Sirah Rasul Allah) and more.

And also Muhammad apparetly threatened to slaughter them a la the above hadith, so...
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I thought Muhammad was preaching in peaceful ways. I thought that Meccan pegans made sanctions towards Muslims and eventually drove them out of the city.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
sovietchild said:
I thought Muhammad was preaching in peaceful ways. I thought that Meccan pegans made sanctions towards Muslims and eventually drove them out of the city.
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They did, because they wanted Muhammad to leave them alone and stop making fun of their gods. Believe it or not, people don't like being preached at. But you know what? They didn't kill anyone.
 
sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
They did, because they wanted Muhammad to leave them alone and stop making fun of their gods. Believe it or not, people don't like being preached at.
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Then, how was Muhammad preaching in hostile ways, before he got kicked out of the city?
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
sovietchild said:
Then, how was Muhammad preaching in hostile ways, before he got kicked out of the city?
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He was reviling their traditons, making fun of their gods, insulting their forefathers, etc. That is hostile. That's not peaceful preaching.
 
sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
He was reviling their traditons, making fun of their gods, insulting their forefathers, etc. That is hostile. That's not peaceful preaching.
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What is peaceful preaching? "Come to Mecca and give those statues something?" Isn't that deceiving in order to obtain something?
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
sovietchild said:
What is peaceful preaching? "Come to Mecca and give those statues something?" Isn't that deceiving in order to obtain something?
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No. Peaceful preaching would be not insulting people's ancestors and reviling their gods. It would be telling them about your new religion, how good it is, what the benefits are, why it's true etc. and giving them a choice of conversion.
 
sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
No. Peaceful preaching would be not insulting people's ancestors and reviling their gods. It would be telling them about your new religion, how good it is, what the benefits are, why it's true etc. and giving them a choice of conversion.
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What is wrong with telling others that those gods are useless? And, there is only one God?
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
This, from an Islamic website of ahadith:
Sahih Bukhari Online Collections

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

(Bukhari 4:52:220)

Ah, peaceful.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
sovietchild said:
What is wrong with telling others that those gods are useless? And, there is only one God?
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Go tell a Pagan 'Your gods are uselss, only Allah can save you', see how he responds.

hint: it won't be favourable.
 
sovietchild

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
Kirran said:
That telling somebody their religion is useless and maligning it is disrespectful, and I can see why someone would get kicked out of town for doing so.

If indeed those were the events which transpired.
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Don't you think they were afraid to lose income from visitors if they were to drop their pagan religion?
 
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