What is wrong with Islam?

[sovietchild]

Is it in one of the Hadith collections?

I'd like to know it too, because I do not think so.

 

[FearGod]

Way to jump the gun there. I didn't imply all Muslims have the same views as Servant because I don't think that.




See, this is one of the problems I have with Islam. It conditions its adherents to think that anyone who criticises or disagrees with Islam must be doing so from an inherently irrational standpoint. Muslims (FYI this does not mean all Muslims) are taught to assume any negative sentiment must be blind or without coherent thought behind it. Hence statements like:

• that of Servant who views those with rational arguments against Islam as being worse than racists or xenophobes who blindly hate that which is different.
• Muslims & Islamic apologists who like to label criticism of Islam as 'Islamophobia'. Have you seen some of the posts in that Islamophobia thread in your DIR? It's truly asinine - blaming everyone and sundry for 9/11 because it couldn't just be a bunch of pissed off Muslims; they had to have been influenced by the infidel.

If Islam were truly a rational faith it wouldn't encourage such a hostile reaction to rational concerns arising both from within the Muslim world & without; and it wouldn't encourage an atmosphere whereby Muslims & their dhimmi allies have to engage in spectacular mental gymnastics in order to absolve Islam from blame. Like you did when you questioned what the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam has to do with Islam.



and why you engage in the tired, absurd sort of defensive reductionism we see all too often when Muslims engage in discussion as here:



where it suddenly becomes convenient that the Quran is the only Muslim scripture in existence. You (ought to) know full well that Sharia law isn't lifted verbatim - word for word - from the Quran. It's a tradition that has evolved over hundreds of years from interpretation by Islamic scholars of all Muslim scripture - not just the Quran.




Says the guy who just assumes my anti-Islam position must be 'blind' hatred.




You hold in high religious esteem a man who had sex with, according to Islamic doctrine, a prepubescent child. If you're going to throw stones from inside a glass mosque, you should at least refrain from hurling boulders.

Criticize Islam as you wish, but use logical discussion than nonsense.
It's even what the thread is all about, what's wrong with Islam.
Hating Islam blindly is not equal to criticizing Islam by fair discussion, discuss why
Islam is wrong with evidences from the quran, the holy book of the Muslims.

 

[azim24]

Christianity teaches that there is not Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, man nor woman, for all are one in Christ Jesus; Islam says Muslims are the greatest of people raised for mankind and Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures.

Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. 5:69
And the Jews say, "The hand of Allah is chained." Chained are their hands, and cursed are they for what they say. Rather, both His hands are extended; He spends however He wills. And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war [against you], Allah extinguished it. And they strive throughout the land [causing] corruption, and Allah does not like corrupters.5:64
You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.5:82
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.5:44
But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.5:18
The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.2:113
Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except [that they did so] seeking the approval of Allah . But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. 57:27
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.9:31

 

[Rival]

I'd like to know it too, because I do not think so.

I posted the references on this thread on the previous page or so.

 

[sovietchild]

I posted the references on this thread on the previous page or so.

I thought that Islam religion allows you to leave. I thought that The Hidden One gave us freedom to believe, or to disbelieve.

 

[FearGod]

Nobody fooled me on September 11, 2001.

That isn't the opinion for many others, you only believe what suits you.

 

[Rival]

Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. 5:69
And the Jews say, "The hand of Allah is chained." Chained are their hands, and cursed are they for what they say. Rather, both His hands are extended; He spends however He wills. And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war [against you], Allah extinguished it. And they strive throughout the land [causing] corruption, and Allah does not like corrupters.5:64
You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.5:82
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.5:44
But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.5:18
The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.2:113
Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except [that they did so] seeking the approval of Allah . But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. 57:27
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.9:31

Sura 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: they are but friends to each other. And he amongst you who turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

 

[FearGod]

Well don't tell me, tell those OIC members who are running your Islamic countries. It's strange how the majority of Islamic scholars, jurists and governments all come to the same conclusion that only internet Islamic debaters seem to disagree with. It's great that you disagree with them, but they haven't just pulled this out of their arses.

If you based your discussion on the views of the others then that will be wasting of time,
discuss Islam by your own knowledge if you have any and not by what others think or say.

 

[sovietchild]

Sura 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: they are but friends to each other. And he amongst you who turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

“Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9]

 

[YmirGF]

If death wasn't a penalty of it every day a Christian or jew converted to Islam and then left it to undermine people's faith and disturb society's calmness
Everyday we should expect someone to say I'm new prophet new imam and savior
This can't be.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Um, that is rather odd behavior for a religion of peace, to kill those who dare to revert. You'd think Muslims would smile and say, "Come back soon. We love you!"

 

[FearGod]

Sura 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: they are but friends to each other. And he amongst you who turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

This verse is indeed a miracle.

 

[Rival]

If you based your discussion on the views of the others then that will be wasting of time,
discuss Islam by your own knowledge if you have any and not by what others think or say.

My knowledge of Islam comes from Qur'an and hadith. But Muslims have this uncanny ability to throw out ahadith when it doesn't suit them.

 

[kaoticprofit]

That isn't the opinion for many others, you only believe what suits you.

Living in the mis-information age makes some people smart, and it makes some people not so smart. I've had people try to tell me the most outrageous things about terrorism and 9/11, like the Boston bombers weren't Muslim. I'm truly am impressed at the things people fall for. I've even had people tell me it wasn't James Foley who was beheaded on video but some of other guy.

Hey look it up. The misinformation age will not only tell you the earth is flat, it also tells you Michelle Obama is a man.

 

[Rival]

“Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9]

3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

 

[sovietchild]

3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. 18:29

 

[azim24]

3:85 And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Yeah it is right.What do you expect?People who do injustices against other people and they don't follow the orders from Allah and then you expect them to go to heaven?Is that fair to you?No even some muslim can go to hell too we can't talk about that for sure.It is better to please Allah not to please people who leave Islam.

 

[Rival]

So many contradictory Qur'an verses!

 

[Rival]

Yeah it is right.What do you expect?People who do injustices against other people and they don't follow the orders from Allah and then you expect them to go to heaven?Is that fair to you?No even some muslim can go to hell too we can't talk about that for sure.It is better to please Allah not to please people who leave Islam.

What about non-Muslims who are doctors and save lives? Dentists? Loyal soldiers, husbands? General morally good people who don't believe in Islam?

 

[icehorse]

Yeah it is right.What do you expect?People who do injustices against other people and they don't follow the orders from Allah and then you expect them to go to heaven?Is that fair to you?No even some muslim can go to hell too we can't talk about that for sure.It is better to please Allah not to please people who leave Islam.

Your arguments here depend on believing in Allah. Since I don't believe in Allah, your arguments are meaningless to me. Can you make your arguments based only on logic and evidence?

 

[sovietchild]

Can you make your arguments based only on logic and evidence?

If the earth was inches closer to the sun it would be too hot. If the earth was inches farther away from the sun it would be too cold.

How about that? Do you like it? Sometimes I think this life is a dream.

"The pens has been lifted and the pages have dried."