What is wrong with Islam?

[interminable]

What about non-Muslims who are doctors and save lives? Dentists? Loyal soldiers, husbands? General morally good people who don't believe in Islam?

God doesn't want us to be inventor or physician and....
Instead he wants to see who is a true follower of the truth!
Being doctors and saving life isn't something that God wants from them Although they are good actions but not enough for entering the heaven.

God wants us to obey him

 

[Rival]

God doesn't want us to be inventor or physician and....
Instead he wants to see who is a true follower of the truth!
Being doctors and saving life isn't something that God wants from them Although they are good actions but not enough for entering the heaven.

God wants us to obey him

This is kind of sick.

 

[interminable]

Unfortunately atheists here most of them are materialists so arguing with them even by suggesting causality won't make any result.

 

[interminable]

This is kind of sick.

Nope

Naturally a society should have a doctor and a carpenter and ....

But believing in God and his prophet is something special and deserve to be rewarded or punished

 

[azim24]

What about non-Muslims who are doctors and save lives? Dentists? Loyal soldiers, husbands? General morally good people who don't believe in Islam?

After Islam i have courage to stop my med school education and i am happy for thatand doctors cannot save lives.I don't know everything but i trust my Allah.
Who created me, and He [it is who] guides me.26:78
And it is He who feeds me and gives me drink.26:79
And when I am ill, it is He who cures me26:80
And who will cause me to die and then bring me to life26:81


Abu Huraira reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, say:

إِنَّ أَوَّلَ النَّاسِ يُقْضَى يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ عَلَيْهِ رَجُلٌ اسْتُشْهِدَ فَأُتِيَ بِهِ فَعَرَّفَهُ نِعَمَهُ فَعَرَفَهَا قَالَ فَمَا عَمِلْتَ فِيهَا قَالَ قَاتَلْتُ فِيكَ حَتَّى اسْتُشْهِدْتُ قَالَ كَذَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّكَ قَاتَلْتَ لِأَنْ يُقَالَ جَرِيءٌ فَقَدْ قِيلَ ثُمَّ أُمِرَ بِهِ فَسُحِبَ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ حَتَّى أُلْقِيَ فِي النَّارِ وَرَجُلٌ تَعَلَّمَ الْعِلْمَ وَعَلَّمَهُ وَقَرَأَ الْقُرْآنَ فَأُتِيَ بِهِ فَعَرَّفَهُ نِعَمَهُ فَعَرَفَهَا قَالَ فَمَا عَمِلْتَ فِيهَا قَالَ تَعَلَّمْتُ الْعِلْمَ وَعَلَّمْتُهُ وَقَرَأْتُ فِيكَ الْقُرْآنَ قَالَ كَذَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّكَ تَعَلَّمْتَ الْعِلْمَ لِيُقَالَ عَالِمٌ وَقَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ لِيُقَالَ هُوَ قَارِئٌ فَقَدْ قِيلَ ثُمَّ أُمِرَ بِهِ فَسُحِبَ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ حَتَّى أُلْقِيَ فِي النَّارِ وَرَجُلٌ وَسَّعَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَعْطَاهُ مِنْ أَصْنَافِ الْمَالِ كُلِّهِ فَأُتِيَ بِهِ فَعَرَّفَهُ نِعَمَهُ فَعَرَفَهَا قَالَ فَمَا عَمِلْتَ فِيهَا قَالَ مَا تَرَكْتُ مِنْ سَبِيلٍ تُحِبُّ أَنْ يُنْفَقَ فِيهَا إِلَّا أَنْفَقْتُ فِيهَا لَكَ قَالَ كَذَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّكَ فَعَلْتَ لِيُقَالَ هُوَ جَوَادٌ فَقَدْ قِيلَ ثُمَّ أُمِرَ بِهِ فَسُحِبَ عَلَى وَجْهِهِ ثُمَّ أُلْقِيَ فِي النَّارِ

Verily, the first of people to have their case judged on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who was martyred. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I fought in your cause until I was martyred. Allah will say: You have lied because you fought so that it would be said how courageous you are, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire. Another man learned religious knowledge, taught others, and recited the Quran. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I learned religious knowledge, taught others, and I recited the Quran for Your sake. Allah will say: You have lied because you learned religious knowledge so that it would be said you are a scholar and you recited the Quran so that it would be
said you are a reciter, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire. Another man was given an abundance from Allah and was given every kind of wealth. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I spent money in every cause upon which You wished it to be spent. Allah will say: You have lied because you spent money so that it would be said how generous you are, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1905, Grade: Sahih

 

[icehorse]

If the earth was inches closer to the sun it would be too hot. If the earth was inches farther away from the sun it would be too cold.

How about that? Do you like it? Sometimes I think this life is a dream.

"The pens has been lifted and the pages have dried."

Your argument is inaccurate and illogical. That said, I'm happy to agree with you that in this vast universe, it's extremely rare that conditions are perfect to support life. But rare conditions don't prove the existence of a god.

 

[interminable]

Please share just one "logical argument about the existence of god". From my perspective, believing in a god is an act of faith, not an act of logic.

R u a materialist too?

Causality and infinite regress can prove the existence of God easily

And causality is something that science is based upon it

So I wonder how could u overlook this issue!!

 

[icehorse]

Nope

Naturally a society should have a doctor and a carpenter and ....

But believing in God and his prophet is something special and deserve to be rewarded or punished

That is your belief. There is nothing wrong with belief, but it's not a substitute for evidence. You have no evidence for your claims.

 

[icehorse]

Causality and infinite regress can prove the existence of God easily

Well I'd be interested in reading such a proof! Do you have a link, or do you want to make the argument yourself?

 

[interminable]

Well I'd be interested in reading such a proof! Do you have a link, or do you want to make the argument yourself?

It's near mid night in Iran so I wanna hit the hay
Sorry
I can do that tomorrow god willing

 

[icehorse]

It's near mid night in Iran so I wanna hit the hay
Sorry
I can do that tomorrow god willing

thanks for the civil debate and have a good night.

 

[Rival]

It's near mid night in Iran so I wanna hit the hay
Sorry
I can do that tomorrow god willing

Sleep well!

 

[Notanumber]

It isn't so cut and dried as you would seem to like to believe, FearGod. The huge problem for critics of Islam is that there is no Islamic central authority and so no one group speaks for Islam. It is so bad that one has to ask if anyone can speak about Islam with any authority.

I am a critic of Islam and there are places not far from where I live that I would not want to be seen speaking publically about Islam.

Islamists are so insecure about their faith that they would much rather harm their critics than debate with them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, from the quran.

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah. (2:190-191)
This is one of many verses radicals turn to for their justification in slaughtering people like me, because of their beliefs that there is a war of aggression against Islam. And there is no one to rightly tell them they are wrong, or any way to prove them wrong. In fact, to them, the Western world is at war against them in all ways except for legal words, and secular values are spreading even within certain Muslim groups. But to many, their very ways, their culture, their way of living, their very religion of not just them but of their fathers and forefathers for generations immemorial is under attack.
Yes, there are inconsistencies within the Quran, but the facts are those who would kill us, including you (as other Muslims are the greatest threat to themselves), have justification for their actions in the Quran and Hadiths.

Who told that u should be killed because u are not Muslim???????????????????????????????

The Quran itself. When Muslims are war, they are allowed to be brutal and viscous monsters to the infidel. Many believe they are fighting against a war of aggression, and they draw on the Quran that cheers them on to fight the infidel, to keep fighting until the entire world is Islam, and know always that Allah views those who fight on his behalf in the highest regard, especially if they are killed in his name. That is all straight from the Quran. Plus, Muslims are instructed to study the Bible, where a parable of Jesus says to slaughter those who don't want him to reign over them. There are dozens more examples throughout the Tanakh.
It's really no different than Christians who are against homosexuality because the Bible says they should be stoned, and we even do have the occasional Christian who believes they should. And though examples do exist, it's undeniable most of the significant histories of long term violence have came from Christianity and Islam, with only a few self-contained incidents that died out, such as the Aztec practice of mass-scale human sacrifice. Few others have caused such cruelty, such war, such suffering, and such greed, but none others have commanded such power or such longevity. But their time is coming. More and more people are reading, and cannot reconcile the conflicting views of what they actually believe as a human being and what their Holy Book actually tells them to believe. The collective cognitive dissonance I do not think will last much longer, and Christianity will die out in the West, for good, and Islam will begin to die off in the Middle East and Africa, for good. And we'll be better off with one less thing that divides us.

 

[FearGod]

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah. (2:190-191)
This is one of many verses radicals turn to for their justification in slaughtering people like me, because of their beliefs that there is a war of aggression against Islam. And there is no one to rightly tell them they are wrong, or any way to prove them wrong. In fact, to them, the Western world is at war against them in all ways except for legal words, and secular values are spreading even within certain Muslim groups. But to many, their very ways, their culture, their way of living, their very religion of not just them but of their fathers and forefathers for generations immemorial is under attack.
Yes, there are inconsistencies within the Quran, but the facts are those who would kill us, including you (as other Muslims are the greatest threat to themselves), have justification for their actions in the Quran and Hadiths.

Fight those who fight you, what the problem with it.
USA is fighting those who don't fight it, Did Syria fight USA, you blame Islam
for asking Muslims to fight the aggressors, you're absolutely wrong and misled.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Criticize Islam as you wish, but use logical discussion than nonsense.
It's even what the thread is all about, what's wrong with Islam.

If you have issue with the thread, ask the Muslim who created why he did so.

Hating Islam blindly is not equal to criticizing Islam by fair discussion, discuss why
Islam is wrong with evidences from the quran, the holy book of the Muslims.

Firstly, I and others have done in the past and are doing so. The problem is that you and other Muslim posters are predisposed to see such arguments as wrong or illogical straight off the bat. This is why there are plenty of Muslims out there who support the death penalty on Salman Rushdie & others; why thousands of Muslims some reports (say hundreds of thousands) are calling for a Christian governor in Indonesia to be put to death for pointing out that local religious leaders are quoting verses of the Quran in order to convince Muslims to vote against him because he is non-Muslim. These are people who have debated Islam using the Quran and have subsequently had their lives threatened. What are other critics of Islam to make of this?

Secondly, why restrict ourselves to only the Quran? Islam is more than the Quran - at least when it suits Muslims at any rate - there's the sunnah (trusted) ahadith and hundreds of years of fatwas and history to consider. Islamic law, unless I'm mistaken, is informed at least in part by the sunnah ahadith as they are the actions of Muhammad who Muslims should be emulating.

 

[FearGod]

If you have issue with the thread, ask the Muslim who created why he did so.

I don't have any issues, why you think so?

Firstly, I and others have done in the past and are doing so. The problem is that you and other Muslim posters are predisposed to see such arguments as wrong or illogical straight off the bat. This is why there are plenty of Muslims out there who support the death penalty on Salman Rushdie & others; why thousands of Muslims some reports (say hundreds of thousands) are calling for a Christian governor in Indonesia to be put to death for pointing out that local religious leaders are quoting verses of the Quran in order to convince Muslims to vote against him because he is non-Muslim. These are people who have debated Islam using the Quran and have subsequently had their lives threatened. What are other critics of Islam to make of this?

Muslims differ, not all Muslims think the same otherwise why we're fighting the IS,
aren't they Muslims too? for you all are Muslims regardless.

Secondly, why restrict ourselves to only the Quran? Islam is more than the Quran - at least when it suits Muslims at any rate - there's the sunnah (trusted) ahadith and hundreds of years of fatwas and history to consider. Islamic law, unless I'm mistaken, is informed at least in part by the sunnah ahadith as they are the actions of Muhammad who Muslims should be emulating.

If you trust the hadith then you're a sunni whereas i'm a muslim.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Muslims differ, not all Muslims think the same otherwise why we're fighting the IS,
aren't they Muslims too? for you all are Muslims regardless.

Very true; but the ahadith are a part of your religion and have informed its development regardless of whether you believe they are truth or not. As to whether such influence has been good or bad, I leave such judgements to you.

If you trust the hadith then you're a sunni whereas i'm a muslim.

Are you implying that Sunnis aren't Muslims? Interesting. That would mean there are far less than 2 billion Muslims in the world. Regardless, Sunnis are the largest sect of Islam so your sentence doesn't make sense outside of sectarian intent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fight those who fight you, what the problem with it.
USA is fighting those who don't fight it, Did Syria fight USA, you blame Islam
for asking Muslims to fight the aggressors, you're absolutely wrong and misled.

The thing is, many people are being killed and they have never done a damn thing to deserve it. These Muslims are encouraging Muslims to kill Westerners just for existing, under the belief they are at war against the West.

 

[FearGod]

Very true; but the ahadith are a part of your religion and have informed its development regardless of whether you believe they are truth or not. As to whether such influence has been good or bad, I leave such judgements to you.

The ahadith are stories about the prophet, such as we heard the prophet saying so and so,
some can be true and some others can be false, the quran is the holy book and not about
stories, don't you realize the difference.

Are you implying that Sunnis aren't Muslims? Interesting. That would mean there are far less than 2 billion Muslims in the world. Regardless, Sunnis are the largest sect of Islam so your sentence doesn't make sense outside of sectarian intent.

I don't care how many Muslims are there, for me i ain't a sunni or a shia, i'm just a muslim,
i may accept one hadith and reject the other, you may think I do pick up what I wanted to,
then yes I do.