What is wrong with Islam?

[FearGod]

So you don't recognize the expertise of the OIC?

Or the ISIS

 

[icehorse]

Do you think that I understand Islam as the terrorists do?
Many stupid scholars everywhere, why to blame Islam?

Wait, what? The OIC is NOT a terrorist organization. The OIC is the "Organization of Islamic Cooperation". It is an organization of 57 nations with large Muslim populations. Almost all of the world's Muslims live in the countries that are members of the OIC. The OIC represents a group of so-called "Muslim" nations that almost always vote together in the UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation

 

[FearGod]

Wait, what? The OIC is NOT a terrorist organization. The OIC is the "Organization of Islamic Cooperation". It is an organization of 57 nations with large Muslim populations. Almost all of the world's Muslims live in the countries that are members of the OIC. The OIC represents a consistent group of nations that almost always vote together in the UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation

If they promote for killing the apostates and regarding it as a crime, then
yes, it doesn't differ from the ISIS, but do the quran asked us to kill the
apostates or the disbelievers for their choices, never.

 

[Rival]

If they promote for killing the apostates and regarding it as a crime, then
yes, it doesn't differ from the ISIS, but do the quran asked us to kill the
apostates or the disbelievers for their choices, never.

It was Muhammad who first said 'Whoever leaves his Islamic religion, kill him'. I guess Muhammad was a terrorist too. Where do you think these other Muslims get it from? Magazines in the dentist's office?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It was Muhammad who first said 'Whoever leaves his Islamic religion, kill him'. I guess Muhammad was a terrorist too. Where do you think these other Muslims get it from? Magazines in the dentist's office?

Is it in one of the Hadith collections?

 

[azim24]

Christianity teaches a man to love his wife as himself, not to hit her.
.

1. Jabir ibn `Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the guarantee of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah.” (Muslim)
2. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best morals, and the best of you are those who are the best to their wives.” (At-Tirmidhi)
3. `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah(peace be upon him) never hit anything with his hand, neither a servant nor a woman, but of course he did fight in the Cause of Allah. (Muslim)
4. Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported, “The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, “A believer must not harm (his) believing woman; if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” (Muslim)
5. Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “A woman who has been previously married (thayyib) has more right to her person than her guardian, and a virgin’s father must ask her consent from her, her consent being her silence.” (Muslim)
6. `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) reported, “A woman came to me with her two daughters. She asked me (for charity) but she found nothing with me except one date-fruit, so I gave it to her. She accepted it and then divided it between her two daughters and herself ate nothing out of that. She then got up and went out. When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) came in, and I narrated to him the story, he said, “He who is involved (in the responsibility) of (bringing up) daughters, and he is benevolent towards them, they would become protection for him against Hell-fire.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
7. Narrated Abu Hurayrah, “A man came to Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) and said, “O Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him)! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your mother.” The man said. “Who is next?” The Prophet said, “Your mother.” The man further said, “Who is next?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your mother.” The man asked for the fourth time, “Who is next?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your father.” (Al-Bukhari)

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yes, 2 billions have the exact same views,

Way to jump the gun there. I didn't imply all Muslims have the same views as Servant because I don't think that.

you have a problem with
Islam and you're blindly programmed to hate Islam, that's the reality

See, this is one of the problems I have with Islam. It conditions its adherents to think that anyone who criticises or disagrees with Islam must be doing so from an inherently irrational standpoint. Muslims (FYI this does not mean all Muslims) are taught to assume any negative sentiment must be blind or without coherent thought behind it. Hence statements like:

• that of Servant who views those with rational arguments against Islam as being worse than racists or xenophobes who blindly hate that which is different.
• Muslims & Islamic apologists who like to label criticism of Islam as 'Islamophobia'. Have you seen some of the posts in that Islamophobia thread in your DIR? It's truly asinine - blaming everyone and sundry for 9/11 because it couldn't just be a bunch of pissed off Muslims; they had to have been influenced by the infidel.

If Islam were truly a rational faith it wouldn't encourage such a hostile reaction to rational concerns arising both from within the Muslim world & without; and it wouldn't encourage an atmosphere whereby Muslims & their dhimmi allies have to engage in spectacular mental gymnastics in order to absolve Islam from blame. Like you did when you questioned what the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam has to do with Islam.

What that have to do with Islam and the quran?

and why you engage in the tired, absurd sort of defensive reductionism we see all too often when Muslims engage in discussion as here:

Quote from the quran, which laws that you find problematic?

where it suddenly becomes convenient that the Quran is the only Muslim scripture in existence. You (ought to) know full well that Sharia law isn't lifted verbatim - word for word - from the Quran. It's a tradition that has evolved over hundreds of years from interpretation by Islamic scholars of all Muslim scripture - not just the Quran.

and I have no problem with criticizing Islam by logical discussions.

Says the guy who just assumes my anti-Islam position must be 'blind' hatred.

Women in many parts of the world are sex objects, they do anything to attract men,
girls at the age of 11 years in the younow showing their bodies and saying sexy words,
i don't like to live in such kind of societies because i care about my family.

You hold in high religious esteem a man who had sex with, according to Islamic doctrine, a prepubescent child. If you're going to throw stones from inside a glass mosque, you should at least refrain from hurling boulders.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

1. Jabir ibn `Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the guarantee of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah.” (Muslim)
2. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best morals, and the best of you are those who are the best to their wives.” (At-Tirmidhi)
3. `A’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah(peace be upon him) never hit anything with his hand, neither a servant nor a woman, but of course he did fight in the Cause of Allah. (Muslim)
4. Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported, “The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, “A believer must not harm (his) believing woman; if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” (Muslim)
5. Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “A woman who has been previously married (thayyib) has more right to her person than her guardian, and a virgin’s father must ask her consent from her, her consent being her silence.” (Muslim)
6. `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) reported, “A woman came to me with her two daughters. She asked me (for charity) but she found nothing with me except one date-fruit, so I gave it to her. She accepted it and then divided it between her two daughters and herself ate nothing out of that. She then got up and went out. When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) came in, and I narrated to him the story, he said, “He who is involved (in the responsibility) of (bringing up) daughters, and he is benevolent towards them, they would become protection for him against Hell-fire.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
7. Narrated Abu Hurayrah, “A man came to Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) and said, “O Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him)! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your mother.” The man said. “Who is next?” The Prophet said, “Your mother.” The man further said, “Who is next?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your mother.” The man asked for the fourth time, “Who is next?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “Your father.” (Al-Bukhari)

And since the Quran overwrites the ahadith in importance:

Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

So yes, the Quran says Muslim men can beat their wives when they disobey.

 

[Rival]

Is it in one of the Hadith collections?

Yes, Sahih Bukhari 52:260, 83:37, 84:57, etc. It appears very well attested.

 

[icehorse]

@azim24

Do you know about "the sin of omission"? It means that you tell part of the truth but not all of the truth.

Please explain 4:34 and 38:44.

 

[interminable]

The conflict between Shia and Sunni has been going on for over a 1000 years.

Yes but now Britain and US are supporter of most of them as we see in my country

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, Sahih Bukhari 52:260, 83:37, 84:57, etc. It appears very well attested.

Figures. The Hadiths are all over the place. I wouldn't trust any of them.

 

[azim24]

Christianity teaches love for one's enemies, Islam teaches war.

Not equal are the good deed and the bad deed. Repel evil by that which is better, and then the one who is hostile to you will become as a devoted friend. But none is granted it except those who are patient and none is granted it except one having a great fortune.
Surah Fussilat 41:34-35
They are those who spend in charity during ease and hardship and who restrain their anger and pardon the people, for Allah loves those who are good.
Surat Ali Imran 3:134
I have called you a trustworthy man who is neither rude nor loud in the markets, nor does he return evil with evil, but rather he pardons and forgives.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 2018, Grade: Sahih
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
No servant is wronged by an oppressor and he forgives him for the sake of Allah except that Allah the Exalted will support him.

Source: Musnad Ahmad 9411, Grade: Sahih

 

[Rival]

Figures. The Hadiths are all over the place. I wouldn't trust any of them.

I'm not saying that I personally put any credit into them, and yes they can be very contradictory and confusing. However, as Islamic scholars et al. have traditionally seen these ahadith as especially 'sahih', then when I'm arguing with Muslims I think it ought to be brought up at least.

 

[FearGod]

It was Muhammad who first said 'Whoever leaves his Islamic religion, kill him'. I guess Muhammad was a terrorist too. Where do you think these other Muslims get it from? Magazines in the dentist's office?

Leaving Islam or not accepting Islam is the same thing, you're speaking
out of ignorance.

1. 109:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
   
   
2. 109:2 I worship not that which ye worship,
   
   
3. 109:3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
   
   
4. 109:4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
   
   
5. 109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
   
   
6. 109:6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.
   

 

[Rival]

Not equal are the good deed and the bad deed. Repel evil by that which is better, and then the one who is hostile to you will become as a devoted friend. But none is granted it except those who are patient and none is granted it except one having a great fortune.
Surah Fussilat 41:34-35
They are those who spend in charity during ease and hardship and who restrain their anger and pardon the people, for Allah loves those who are good.
Surat Ali Imran 3:134
I have called you a trustworthy man who is neither rude nor loud in the markets, nor does he return evil with evil, but rather he pardons and forgives.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 2018, Grade: Sahih
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
No servant is wronged by an oppressor and he forgives him for the sake of Allah except that Allah the Exalted will support him.

Source: Musnad Ahmad 9411, Grade: Sahih

I was actually talking about the Dar al-Harb concept.

 

[Rival]

Leaving Islam or not accepting Islam is the same thing, you're speaking
out of ignorance.

1. 109:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
   
   
2. 109:2 I worship not that which ye worship,
   
   
3. 109:3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
   
   
4. 109:4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
   
   
5. 109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
   
   
6. 109:6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

No, once you join Islam you cannot leave. That is sunnah.

 

[FearGod]

No, once you join Islam you cannot leave. That is sunnah.

No it doesn't, it's some scholars views.

 

[Rival]

No it doesn't, it's some scholars views.

Well don't tell me, tell those OIC members who are running your Islamic countries. It's strange how the majority of Islamic scholars, jurists and governments all come to the same conclusion that only internet Islamic debaters seem to disagree with. It's great that you disagree with them, but they haven't just pulled this out of their arses.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Fooled by the media, very clearly.

Nobody fooled me on September 11, 2001.