What is wrong with Islam?

[icehorse]

U just think about societies and forget transcendent world

Unfortunately u don't believe in transcendent world

Your guesses about what I believe are wrong. I would request that you stop guessing. Feel free to ask, just don't guess.

By the way I'm responsible for my claims and I have to answer in the day of judgement but u say whatever u want about Islam and fear nothing so how can we continue the discussion???

If Islam is perfect, as Muslims claim, then you should have no difficulty debating my criticisms.

 

[interminable]

But your God's orders aren't working. Muslims are leaving Islamic societies in droves because they are some of the worst places in the world to live.

Yes
If the US sanctions weren't against my Country my people weren't forced to leave county
US even sanctioned some crucial medicines and my fellow had to go to turkey to buy them???

Who created isis????
Who attacked Afghanistan????
Who is helping Saudi Arabia to attack Yemen???
All of the disasters in islamic world is because of US

 

[interminable]

Your guesses about what I believe are wrong. I would request that you stop guessing. Feel free to ask, just don't guess.



If Islam is perfect, as Muslims claim, then you should have no difficulty debating my criticisms.

I mean if I find that I'm wrong I have to accept and can't tell lie but what about you?

If u find that I'm right what can force u to accept the truth????

 

[Rival]

Yes
If the US sanctions weren't against my Country my people weren't forced to leave county
US even sanctioned some crucial medicines and my fellow had to go to turkey to buy them???

Who created isis????
Who attacked Afghanistan????
Who is helping Saudi Arabia to attack Yemen???
All of the disasters in islamic world is because of US

Let's blame the U.S. Let's blame the Jews. Let's blame the West. Let's blame space aliens.

 

[interminable]

Let's blame the U.S. Let's blame the Jews. Let's blame the West. Let's blame space aliens.

U don't live in middle east
So don't talk easily about sufferings that are forced on them by US

The collapse of building 7 in 911 is a best example that US even kill it's people to defame Islam and attack Muslims countries

 

[icehorse]

I mean if I find that I'm wrong I have to accept and can't tell lie but what about you?

If u find that I'm right what can force u to accept the truth????

I believe in logic and evidence. If you have good logic and evidence in your arguments, I will accept them. Everyone can read this thread, I'm not going to lie if you have good logic and evidence. But in general, religion relies heavily on faith, and has very little good evidence, so you have your work cut out for you.

If you don't value logic and evidence, then indeed that limits the conversations we can have.

 

[Rival]

U don't live in middle east
So don't talk easily about sufferings that are forced on them by US

The collapse of building 7 in 911 is a best example that US even kill it's people to defame Islam and attack Muslims countries

No, but I live in Europe and I can see the Muslims coming over here from the Middle East. I can research Islam and see the kind of places it produces.

 

[icehorse]

U don't live in middle east
So don't talk easily about sufferings that are forced on them by US

How is violence that Muslim men commit against Muslim women the fault of the West?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People don't hate Islam because of the media. They hate Islam because it is theologically incoherent, backwards, has a child molesting war-lord rapist for a prophet and produces barbaric, illiterate, garbage societies that legalise domestic abuse, child rape and intolerance. This is why people hate Islam.

Islam is also based on Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets of the Jews, and Jesus and the Apostle's as well. Everything you accuse Islam of equally applied to Christianized Europe. And not only was Europe like that, things like widespread literacy and domestic abuse laws are still fairly new concepts in Western culture thanks nearly two thousand years of Christian rule.

We aren't slave of our passions
We are supposed to obey god

The problem is, while there is no mandate to convert, the Quran does instruct Muslims to kill infidels. According to the Quran I should be killed because I question and deny Allah. According to Christianity I should be killed for not wanting to Christ to reign over me. According to Judaism (well, not really, since they're the only ones who really don't give much of a crap about what others are doing and wouldn't claim their laws apply at all since I'm not Jewish - but Jesus made it clear these laws are still valid to his followers), I should be killed for not worshiping the god of my father, who is the same god of Abraham.
That's what happens when you follow the law of those books as they are written.

If human beings produce laws that create better functioning societies than your God, then you might want to think about it.

We have and are making better functioning societies. It's been a few hundred years since anyone in the West has been tried and executed as a witch. We are slowly granting more freedoms by booting religion out of the state. Today we can protest a state official. To do so when the Church ruled was to defy the very will of God himself, and was punished with horrible deaths from being slowly and brutally tortured. The Ottoman Caliphate was more sophisticated, and more intellectual than Christianized Europe by far, even fairly progressive for their time in allowing Christians and Jews to practice their religion and for the adoption of Greek philosophy, but they too had brutal cruelty, slavery, lack of women's rights, and to challenge the Sultan was to challenge the will of Allah.

 

[interminable]

I believe in logic and evidence. If you have good logic and evidence in your arguments, I will accept them. Everyone can read this thread, I'm not going to lie if you have good logic and evidence. But in general, religion relies heavily on faith, and has very little good evidence, so you have your work cut out for you.

If you don't value logic and evidence, then indeed that limits the conversations we can have.

There are many people that believe in logic and evidences but there is no guarantee to accept it

Shia philosophers made lots of logical arguments about existence of god and ...that is a treasure for a seeker after the truth

 

[Rival]

Islam is also based on Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets of the Jews, and Jesus and the Apostle's as well. Everything you accuse Islam of equally applied to Christianized Europe. And not only was Europe like that, things like widespread literacy and domestic abuse laws are still fairly new concepts in Western culture thanks nearly two thousand years of Christian rule.

No. Muslims follow the Sunnah - they emulate Muhammad. Muhammad can in no way whatsoever be compared to Jesus.

Christianity teaches a man to love his wife as himself, not to hit her.
Christianity teaches love for one's enemies, Islam teaches war.
Christianity teaches that there is not Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, man nor woman, for all are one in Christ Jesus; Islam says Muslims are the greatest of people raised for mankind and Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures.

The list goes on and on. You seem ignorant of Islam and think all the Abrahamic religions are all basically the same. They are not.

 

[FearGod]

I agree that many of the messages in Islam are clear, the problem is that they are intolerant. Islam needs to be reformed to be consistent with the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UDHR).

(corrected from "united nations" to "universal", my bad)

And which law that you don't like or disagree with Islam?

 

[interminable]

No, but I live in Europe and I can see the Muslims coming over here from the Middle East. I can research Islam and see the kind of places it produces.

Besides they are leaving their countries not their religions
Afghanistan Pakistan Syria Iraq Yemen Palestin and... All of them are involved in war so it's expected from them to leave for better situation
I'm sure if u were them u would do that too

 

[Rival]

We have and are making better functioning societies. It's been a few hundred years since anyone in the West has been tried and executed as a witch.

Afaik Orthodox never went around executing 'witches'.

 

[interminable]

How is violence that Muslim men commit against Muslim women the fault of the West?

I didn't talk about criminals of Muslims
There are lots of criminals everywhere no matter what religion they behold

 

[Rival]

Besides they are leaving their countries not their religions
Afghanistan Pakistan Syria Iraq Yemen Palestin and... All of them are involved in war so it's excepted from them to leave for better situation
I'm sure if u were them u would do that too

They are petrified to leave Islam because the penalty is death. If not death the loss of connexion with family and friends. People are brainwashed into Islam well and truly.

Also, what did the west do to incite Shia-Sunni madness? Not a thing. People being punished for being raped? Homosexuals punished? Is this all the west's fault now?

 

[FearGod]

I don't. For a good while that protected Islaam's reputation from my judgement.

No more.


Indeed.

I advise you to start realizing that the media is the least of your concerns.

When the person is just concerned to criticize Islam and using false stories and lies
as many do here and in the anti Islam sources which you and some others find it telling
the truth, not because it tells the truth but because you only blindly hate Islam.

 

[icehorse]

There are many people that believe in logic and evidences but there is no guarantee to accept it

Shia philosophers made lots of logical arguments about existence of god and ...that is a treasure for a seeker after the truth

Please share just one "logical argument about the existence of god". From my perspective, believing in a god is an act of faith, not an act of logic.

 

[Rival]

Please share just one "logical argument about the existence of god". From my perspective, believing in a god is an act of faith, not an act of logic.

New thread perhaps? Bit off topic.

 

[FearGod]

But your God's orders aren't working. Muslims are leaving Islamic societies in droves because they are some of the worst places in the world to live.

Because of wars, otherwise the Muslim world are much better than living in yours.