What is Wrong With Jews Who Repeatedly Post the Most Hateful Propaganda Towards Muslims?

[rosends]

Yeah, cool. Random blogs and anti-Palestinian news sites sometimes do come out with that 'they're all immigrants stuff'.

But there are a people called Palestinians now.

That begs the earlier point. If there are a people called Palestinian now then labeling a map with "Palestinian" before, well, "now" is disingenuous at best. If we allow the name to be cast back in time onto an ill-defined group, then the same must be allowed with other groups, including "Israelis." So maps showing Jewish presence in 1890 should be labeled with "Israeli cities."

And to criticize a random blog but not challenge its content and sources doesn't advance any position.

 

[Kirran]

That begs the earlier point. If there are a people called Palestinian now then labeling a map with "Palestinian" before, well, "now" is disingenuous at best. If we allow the name to be cast back in time onto an ill-defined group, then the same must be allowed with other groups, including "Israelis." So maps showing Jewish presence in 1890 should be labeled with "Israeli cities."

And to criticize a random blog but not challenge its content and sources doesn't advance any position.

Fine then, forget that stuff altogether. Forget what to call people before the '60s, forget the genetic evidence and ancestry - there are a people called the Palestinians now. That's a very observable fact, with big implications regarding politics, in the Middle East in particular.

 

[rosends]

Fine then, forget that stuff altogether. Forget what to call people before the '60s, forget the genetic evidence and ancestry - there are a people called the Palestinians now. That's a very observable fact, with big implications regarding politics, in the Middle East in particular.

That's a fine assertion. It just isn't what this particular conversation was hinging on. The question was about the veracity of a map which asserted the existence of a discrete group during the time that you are willing to forget.

 

[Kirran]

That's a fine assertion. It just isn't what this particular conversation was hinging on. The question was about the veracity of a map which asserted the existence of a discrete group during the time that you are willing to forget.

I just don't see what the value in arguing over the subject is. It seems to an attempt, conscious or otherwise, to distract from the actual complex and many-sided political issues afflicting the region and the relationships between the different nationalities there.

 

[rosends]

I just don't see what the value in arguing over the subject is. It seems to an attempt, conscious or otherwise, to distract from the actual complex and many-sided political issues afflicting the region and the relationships between the different nationalities there.

An argument very often relies on language (common, agreed upon words) in order to make its case. Often, the control and use of language establishes a reality which can affect the course of an argument not by relying on common words, but by invoking concepts through the use of words incorrectly. Those concepts then become a default "truth" and the words' meaning shifts. To cite a map that claims the existence of a Palestinian people then expects people to believe that a singular nation has been disempowered. By questioning the spurious use of words and demanding exactitude, we can reach more understanding.

Take, for example, the technical legal term "occupation." It requires that the land of a sovereign nation be under the control of another nation. If you concede the existence of a phantom soveriegn and historical "Palestine" then suddenly that word makes sense. But if the nation didn't exist, then the legal term cannot be applied. The fact that it is used so often means that people are buying in to something which is simply not borne out historically.

I'm shutting down for the holiday. Hope this gave you something to think about. Thanks for the conversation.

 

[ChristineM]

That's a fine assertion. It just isn't what this particular conversation was hinging on. The question was about the veracity of a map which asserted the existence of a discrete group during the time that you are willing to forget.

Actually it was until you started moving the goalposts.

 

[Kenny]

All the censures against Israel are made in agreement by an international committee.

Your evidence for such an obnoxious claim is what?

I'm not sure which one was more obnoxious... but to state my case--a tree is known by its fruit.

How many resolutions have been passed against Palestine vs Israel in the last 16 years?

 

[Kirran]

An argument very often relies on language (common, agreed upon words) in order to make its case. Often, the control and use of language establishes a reality which can affect the course of an argument not by relying on common words, but by invoking concepts through the use of words incorrectly. Those concepts then become a default "truth" and the words' meaning shifts. To cite a map that claims the existence of a Palestinian people then expects people to believe that a singular nation has been disempowered. By questioning the spurious use of words and demanding exactitude, we can reach more understanding.

Take, for example, the technical legal term "occupation." It requires that the land of a sovereign nation be under the control of another nation. If you concede the existence of a phantom soveriegn and historical "Palestine" then suddenly that word makes sense. But if the nation didn't exist, then the legal term cannot be applied. The fact that it is used so often means that people are buying in to something which is simply not borne out historically.

I'm shutting down for the holiday. Hope this gave you something to think about. Thanks for the conversation.

Like, I see the reasonableness of your points from a perspective. But there is nevertheless a nation of people whose land is being occupied by another nation. Whether that occupation is legitimate, whether withdrawal is possible at this stage, all that, is another conversation, which has a lot of nuance. But that strikes me as being where constructive discussion can happen.

OK, have a great holiday! (I'm afraid I don't know which one this is)

 

[ChristineM]

I'm not sure which one was more obnoxious... but to state my case--a tree is known by its fruit.

How many resolutions have been passed against Palestine vs Israel in the last 16 years?

And the reason being? Palestine is not evicting people from their land, destroying their homes and dumping them in enclaves sanbs medical and humanitarian basics. Palestine is not cluster bombing civilians

 

[Kenny]

And the reason being? Palestine is not evicting people from their land, destroying their homes and dumping them in enclaves sanbs medical and humanitarian basics. Palestine is not cluster bombing civilians

No... they are just sending thousands of bombs over the border while the sane Muslims cross the border for medical treatment and love working in Israel. I wonder why.

 

[ChristineM]

No... they are just sending thousands of bombs over the border while the sane Muslims cross the border for medical treatment and love working in Israel. I wonder why.

Thousands? Some few homemade retaliations for American made cluster bombs precisely delivered by laser targeting of civilians by modern American made aircraft.

Or would you prefer them to accept genocide because they are not in your words sane Muslim?

Cross the border for medical treatment? You are having a laugh right?

Those Muslims displaced by Israel don't get that option.

 

[icehorse]

Like, I see the reasonableness of your points from a perspective. But there is nevertheless a nation of people whose land is being occupied by another nation. Whether that occupation is legitimate, whether withdrawal is possible at this stage, all that, is another conversation, which has a lot of nuance. But that strikes me as being where constructive discussion can happen.

OK, have a great holiday! (I'm afraid I don't know which one this is)

A great case in point; your use of the word "nation". As mentioned earlier, such labels DO take on a lot of power. We often see huge fights that hinge on nothing more than the name of a thing. There were Muslim Arabs living in "Israel" for thousands of years. There were also Christians and Jews living in the same area. There are many of tribes of Arabs in the ME who do not have an official "nation". Kurds and Yazidis come to mind. In the 60's Arafat cooked up the idea of "Palestinians" and it stuck. But they are not yet a "nation", and exactly who is and is not a "Palestinian" isn't totally clear.

 

[icehorse]

Thousands? Some few homemade retaliations for American made cluster bombs precisely delivered by laser targeting of civilians by modern American made aircraft.

Or would you prefer them to accept genocide because they are not in your words sane Muslim?

Cross the border for medical treatment? You are having a laugh right?

Those Muslims displaced by Israel don't get that option.

Google how many aid dollars the world has sent to Hamas in the last decade, and how much of that "aid" Hamas used to buy aggressive weapons.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

There are many of tribes of Arabs in the ME who do not have an official "nation". Kurds and Yazidis come to mind.

Are Kurds or Yazidis actually Arabs?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

And the reason being? Palestine is not evicting people from their land, destroying their homes and dumping them in enclaves sanbs medical and humanitarian basics. Palestine is not cluster bombing civilians

Hamas aren't doing this because they're not at a military advantage to Israel - Israel won't let them get one because it would end up being a bloodbath across the land if they did. But they do send rockets aplenty against Israel which have struck plenty of civilian targets.

 

[icehorse]

Are Kurds or Yazidis actually Arabs?

Oops, you're right. They are considered their own ethnicity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Are Kurds or Yazidis actually Arabs?

They're an Iranian people.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

They're an Iranian people.

I thought so, icehorse's post made me question it though.

 

[Kenny]

Thousands? Some few homemade retaliations for American made cluster bombs precisely delivered by laser targeting of civilians by modern American made aircraft.

Or would you prefer them to accept genocide because they are not in your words sane Muslim?

Cross the border for medical treatment? You are having a laugh right?

Those Muslims displaced by Israel don't get that option.

Few? Must be some parallel universe.

How many times did the UN condemn this?

With the need of humanitarian aid in Palestinian held lands... why do they spend so much money on tunnels, bombs and weaponry?

Answer is simple, as the have stated, "LITTLE SATAN, ISRAEL, MUST BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE MAP"

The said, "give us some land and we will acknowledge your rights and stop fighting". So Israel gave land and nothing happened.

 

[icehorse]

I thought so, icehorse's post made me question it though.

Even though they are of a different ethnicity, I'll stand by my claim that there are many "tribes" or "groups" in the ME who have been displaced in the last 100 years. I'm not condoning the practice, but I find it interesting that the group that recently decided to call themselves "Palestinians" get so much more press than the other groups.