What is wrong with sharia law?

[Brian Schuh]

It doesn't have to. I'm not saying it's a perfect system (it should not cost $1.26 million to execute someone), but in some instances it is just.



I find my locale to be of little bearing on the issue. While many instances can be subjective, would you say that there is room for defense for Timothy McVeigh's actions? What about Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale?

I am familiar with McVeigh. He bombed a federal building. He had a dissertation in his possession claiming his target were guilty. As he was a veteran and his dissertation seemed ironclad, it was a sort of "defense." but when he was confronted with there was a nursery where he bombed, he called the babies collateral damage, the verdict was the death penalty.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

But I don't the state ever has legitimacy to kill somebody, I think that a state purporting to representing us committing murder on our behalf brutalises us a society and goes against the very highest principles of morality.

I disagree. In instances where someone take it upon themselves to publically and brutally slay a fellow citizen, they forfeit their right to life. I'm certainly not suggesting bashing their heads in with rocks or electrocuting them, but I feel that they deserve to die. Especially when they're caught red-handed, as with the two murderers in London.

 

[sovietchild]

You realise you've misinterpreted the OP, right? This isn't about 'opt-in' religious courts which legally have as much power as mediation.
This is about replacing US criminal law with Shariah.

US? No, I created topic about most criminal regions like Central America and Caribbeans.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

US? No, I created topic about most criminal regions like Central American and Caribbeans.

Apologies. But you do mean replacement of existing legal structure with Shariah, correct? You're not merely suggesting that opt-in Shariah courts (which have as much jurisdiction as mediation) are the way to go, I think.

 

[sovietchild]

Apologies. But you do mean replacement of existing legal structure with Shariah, correct? You're not merely suggesting that opt-in Shariah courts (which have as much jurisdiction as mediation) are the way to go, I think.

I was thinking taking some things from sharia law and implementing into existing law. Like ban of alcohol and cutting hands for stilling, and killing the drug lords and few others.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I was thinking taking some things from sharia law and implementing into existing law. Like ban of alcohol and cutting hands for stilling, and killing the drug lords and few others.

Right. Anything that's directly religiously related?

 

[sovietchild]

Right. Anything that's directly religiously related?

How is it religious though? How is killing drugs lords counts as religious? Cutting hands for stealing to me is just an example. I think people would be fearful of stealing if this kind of law is implemented.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Cutting hands for [stealing] to me is just an example. I think people would be fearful of stealing if this kind of law is implemented.

I doubt it. In my experience, it would breed better thieves.

 

[sovietchild]

I doubt it. In my experience, it would breed better thieves.

It works in Saudi Arabia. Why can't it work in regions like Central America and Eastern Europe?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It works in Saudi Arabia. Why can't it work in regions like Central America and Eastern Europe?

Apparently not. Petty theft is a noted problem. Drug trafficking also continues, despite strict punishments. In 2002, theft composed 47% of all reported crimes.

 

[sovietchild]

Apparently not. Petty theft is a noted problem. Drug trafficking also continues, despite strict punishments. In 2002, theft composed 47% of all reported crimes.

Crime in Saudi Arabia

Problem property crimes such as vandalism and theft - low

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

From that site: "These data are based on perceptions of visitors of this website in the past 3 years. If the value is 0, it means it is perceived as very low, and if the value is 100, it means it is perceived as very high." The nature of how that data is gathered, coupled with the questionable grammar, does not bode well for veracity. If Saudi Arabia were such a crime-less utopia, Australia wouldn't be advising to reconsider travel. From their report: "Opportunistic thefts, particularly in crowded places and from vehicles occur. Valuables should not be left in view. The British Embassy reported there was an attempt to kidnap a British national in November 2015."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

How is it religious though? How is killing drugs lords counts as religious? Cutting hands for stealing to me is just an example. I think people would be fearful of stealing if this kind of law is implemented.

That's what I'm asking though. So...for example...

Shariah might say the following;

1) Cut off the hands of thieves.
2) Punish apostates.

Item 1 could be arrived at secularly, regardless of religion.
Item 2 requires religion.

Are you suggesting only to add non-religious items from Shariah into existing criminal law, or are you suggesting more widespread additions?

 

[sovietchild]

That's what I'm asking though. So...for example...

Shariah might say the following;

1) Cut off the hands of thieves.
2) Punish apostates.

Item 1 could be arrived at secularly, regardless of religion.
Item 2 requires religion.

Are you suggesting only to add non-religious items from Shariah into existing criminal law, or are you suggesting more widespread additions?

Apostates reminds me bit of military dissertation.

Muhammad did say Islam will perish. Plus, I thought there is nothing In the Quran that says you should be killed for leaving Islam.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Apostates reminds me bit of military dissertation.

Muhammad did say Islam will perish. Plus, I thought there is nothing In the Quran that says you should be killed for leaving Islam.

But you're not discussing 'the Quran', but rather adoption of parts of Shariah law. Which certainly does/can include interpretive additions.
In terms of apostasy, I'm not even talking about purely 'killing', but any segregation based on religious belief/non-belief.
Similarly around other areas, such as the weight given to verbal evidence from women.

Ultimately, you're advocating taking some/all of a religiously based legal system and adding it to existing criminal legal systems. We need more information on how that would work, what you're adding, etc, if we are to give meaningful responses.

 

[Papoon]

What you say is akin to claim that I support Trump or Hitler because they sleep and bathe often, as I do.

Of course not everything in any non-satirical proposal will need to be disagreed with.

I do not welcome the attempt at obfuscation.

Good response.

The argument that the overlap of secular and theocratic law makes them more or less equivalent is very misleading.

By the same logic - since both science and religion discuss the origin of the universe, and the life within it, theology and science should get equal time in the education system.

It makes me shudder.

 

[David T]

What is wrong with sharia law? A law like that could help most criminal regions like Americas (2 continents) get back on the right

What is wrong with sharia law? A law like that could help most criminal regions like Americas (2 continents) get back on the right track. Wouldn't you think so?

Its Donald trump dressed in religious drag. Mohammed is brilliant his followers not so much.

 

[Papoon]

Its Donald trump dressed in religious drag. Mohammed is brilliant his followers not so much.

Immersive conditioning, a life where anything not prescribed is proscribed, in a cultural context where all around you are acting according to the conditioning...

It may be impossible to overestimate how difficult it would be to see things any other way.

Move over Milgram and Zimbardo ...

 

[Baroodi]

Sharia law can not be applied in non-muslim areas. It is a by product of being Muslim to maintain tranquility and security.

 

[Baroodi]

An eye for an eye
A tooth for a tooth
Sharia law is the essence of all religions revealed to all messengers before Muhammed and the Christ. All other religions except Islam were maimed with a lot of attrition and mutations by the Messing of people. Christianity is having a new face every 100 years . Islam managed to survive because of this Sharia as prestine as it was.