Rival's not one of the social progressives she's talking about - she no doubt does have more in common with orthodox Islam than the social progressives do.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What Is Wrong With Those Leftists Who Support Islam?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Rival's not one of the social progressives she's talking about - she no doubt does have more in common with orthodox Islam than the social progressives do.
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
I misunderstood her. I thought she was chatting about westerners vs oil defenders.
Lorgar-Aurelian
Active Member
Oh thank tzeentch , just a misunderstanding.
I loathe the "SJW" slur, so I wouldn't call such far leftists that. I much prefer the term "regressive left."
I agree that far leftists who support Islam, at least its more mainstream forms, are inconsistent and dissonant in their views. One doesn't have to support a religion in order to support its adherents' freedom of religion and thought. Whether you support or oppose Islam, conflating your stance on Islam and your stance on Muslims as necessarily the same opens the door to misunderstanding, miscommunication, and equivocation. For instance, it allows Islamic apologists to dismiss criticism of Islam as anti-Muslim bigotry and allows anti-Muslims to use the problematic aspects of Islam as a springboard to demonize and persecute Muslims as a whole.
I think the regressive left is sometimes just as guilty of endorsing persecution and abuses of human rights as the right wing. One of the main differences between a Bible-thumping Trump supporter and a regressive leftist apologist for Islamic bigotry is that the Trump supporter is a clear-cur bigot rather than appearing as a "multiculturalist" or "advocate of diversity" while condoning some of the most blatantly abusive beliefs that still exist in the 21st century.
In mainstream usage--mainly with respect to U.S. politics--is there a major distinction between "leftist" and "liberal"?
I also find that the far left is guilty of turning a blind eye to religious bigotry far more than the left in general. The left has a lot of good things to its credit, unlike the obscurantist brand that seems to only be interested in blind acceptance for the sake of acceptance instead of having rational discernment.
There isn't, but that doesn't mean they're groups which are in reality even especially similar.
Who on the far left does that? Can you find me an example of a far leftist who turns a blind eye to religious bigotry?
I think your issues are with certain trends in the liberal progressive movement, and I'd certainly agree with your criticism of them, but left and right are ultimately more about economic issues.
Who do you think the fault of the Sunni-Shia conflicts is?
The obvious answer would be that the people who are actually directly involved on those have a huge share of the responsibility, if not the whole of it. Do you agree?
My OP said 'socially'.
Mine. Because I'm British. Obviously.
I know, but I don't think that's really a thing. A leftist is a leftist, you can't be left wing socially because you support same-sex marriage but then support free market capitalism. That's not leftism. That's about social progressivism vs conservatism. Sure, they correlate, but aren't at all the same.
In fact, liberal democracy is the reigning ideology right now, and the main issues are between different flavours of liberals. In the UK the Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru, the SNP, Labour (pretty much), the Conservatives and UKIP are all liberals.
I wasn't talking about the labels in terms of economic issues at all; only in terms of social ones. I realize that a person can be economically conservative and socially leftist at the same time, and vice versa.
So what is anyone who is either
a) left socially and right economically
b) left economically and right socially
?
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I don't know why two fights each other.
I don't think that's true really, to be honest. While certainly there are similar aspects to the mindsets behind social progressivism and leftism, they're still not the same. I don't think social left/right really exists, it's just people blurring them together, in particular in the absence of an actual left wing in politics in much of the world.
A) is right wing but socially liberal/progressive.
B) is left wing but a social conservative.
So why jump to blaming the British?
I am uncertain on how or why anyone would use the label "Social Justice Warrior" in a negative way when it is inherently positive in meaning, but let's ignore that for the time being.
To the best of my understanding, there is a lot of ignorance and misunderstandings about Islaam running around. Most significant IMO is that its image is strongly protected by most media even as a persistent tale that the media actually persecutes Islaam is fiercely maintained by people who, frankly, seem to dare not to learn better.
A big part of the motivation is probably the simple realization that we are all in big trouble if Islaam is as backwards and refractable to necessary questioning and change as it seems to be. It is a difficult acceptance to attain.
Yes but what are their names.
With all due respect, you are not quite that influential...
I appreciate the honesty, but I do not appreciate the haste in blaming "westerners".