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What is your best evidence for a god?

leroy

Well-Known Member
Why? There are an almost limitless number of stories we could make up about the way things are and your god only occurs in a tiny fraction of them, so the probability that you're right is tiny. It's nothing more than a blind guess.



But in a broad sence, there are only 2 possibilities, ether God exists or he doesn’t……….. So under what bases do you say that the second is more probable than the first?


No I don't. The existence of an unknown (why the universe appears "fine tuned") doesn't make your blind guess any more probable than any other. There are multiple scientific hypotheses that might explain it and all have the advantage over a god in that they are at least based on what we already know. But any blind guess at all is just as (im)probable as your god.
Well name one alternative and explain why is it better than God


Or is it another case of “I am an atheist, therefore I don’t have to support any of my assertions”
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
As far as evidence goes, there simply isn't any. Logically if you argue that the universe is unlikely or improbable because if it were any different then we wouldn't exist, then exactly the same reasoning would apply to any god that created it.

As I said, you're just using special pleading. Why do you insist that we need to explain the universe with a god, but then don't apply the same sort of logic to the god itself? Why would that god exist, rather than another, or no gods, many gods or nothing at all? It's entirely arbitrary because it's just what you want to believe.

God doesn't answer the basic mystery of why things exist and are the way they are, it just moves the problem.

Because we know that the universe has some properties that make it contingent (requires an explanation) God doesn’t have these properties or at worst “we don’t know” because we haven’t seen God……… so it´s not special pleading, I am asserting that the universe requires an explanation because the universe has some properties (it´s FT, it had a beginning, etc.) that God doesn’t have (or may not have)

But you are ignoring the most important thing, not having an explanation for the explanation is not a good reason to reject the explanation……………you don’t need to know “where did the Egyptians came from” in order to conclude that they build the pyramids.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
First, we have no context in which to judge if the universe is "fine tuned"

“No Context”? Do you expect there would be another example, w/ different parameters to compare?

Many physicists have come to this conclusion of fine-tuning...we don’t need context.

“A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.” — Fred Hoyle.

Evidence.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
The evolutionary process demonstrably, verifiably, leads to functional systems.
We have observed this in the wild and in the lab.
———————
“That it [Common Descent] happened, is beyond question.”

Yes, altering existing species, developing into different species but within that family.
They will not gradually morph into a brand new phylum.

Most of the current phyla were established at the Cambrian Explosion.
How did that happen? Novel phenotypes appearing suddenly?

And there are BIG questions. Naturalism won’t provide the answers.... some things only a Mind can accomplish.

It’s useless to reason with you.
Your bias is too set.

You can reply all you want, but I doubt I’ll respond.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Yes, altering existing species, developing into different species but within that family.


:rolleyes:

If members of family X would evolve into members of family Y, then evolution theory would be demonstrated false......

Maybe you should inform yourself on the scientific cornerstone of modern biology before trying to argue against it.



They will not gradually morph into a brand new phylum.
Most of the current phyla were established at the Cambrian Explosion.
How did that happen? Novel phenotypes appearing suddenly?

Notice how you are moving the goalpost from the point you were trying to make with that article.
Notice how you edited out my comments about said article in the part you quoted.
Notice how you don't even acknowledge or address your called out misrepresentation of the article you referenced.
Notice how this affects your (religious) case "against" the cornerstone of modern biology.

Having said that, you are once again exposing more ignorance on the science you are hellbend on arguing against, while clearly not even understanding the fundamentals.

Ever heared of the law of monophy? It's a law of evolutionary biology that says no lineage can ever outgrow its ancestry.

Clades don't evolve out of a vacuum. Phylum/families/species don't just appear out of nowhere without precursors.
Nore was the cambrian explosion "sudden", except from the perspective of geological time.
In reality, this period lasted 40 to 80 MILLION years.

"sudden" in geological time, considering life is 3.8 billion years old.
Not exactly "sudden" as in "overnight".

In reality, given the right conditions, that is plenty of time for evolution to do with it does.

And there are BIG questions. Naturalism won’t provide the answers.... some things only a Mind can accomplish.


That is just your religious belief.

It’s useless to reason with you. Your bias is too set.

Says the dogmatic creationist who is hellbend on arguing against science he clearly does not understand and does not want to understand. :rolleyes:

You can reply all you want, but I doubt I’ll respond.

I'ld prefer you not to respond and instead go read up on modern biology from an actual science source instead Answers In Genesis or whatever other creationist propaganda site you get your "intel" from.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member








"sudden" in geological time, considering life is 3.8 billion years old.
Not exactly "sudden" as in "overnight".

In reality, given the right conditions, that is plenty of time for evolution to do with it does.


Can you show that 40M years is enough time to evolve a microbe in to a multicellular arthropod? Can you show that “there is enough time” for evolution ….. or is this another example of “I am an atheist therefore I don’t have to support any of my assertions”



Why don’t you simply join the scientific consensus and admit that “ @Hockeycowboy ” is corrrect nobody knows how large scale macro evolution occurred?.....
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Not all designed objects are made from non-naturally occurring materials. Nor do they all have an inscription, or brand markings

It was your choice to use computer component.
If there are no unnatural materials used, there still is the signs of manufacturing.

Like Mt Rushmore. No non-natural materials there. But clear signs of carving.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

I know. It's part of the problem.
What I mean is, that the parts are put together with things like glue and soldering
These are things we expect from an artificial production process, as opposed to a natural development.

I would suggest that perhaps we are both assuming, but I am using evidence in the same way you claim to be.

Not at all. YOU are assuming that there is planning, intent, purpose. I'm not making any such assumptions. Neither am I assuming that there isn't. I just go by the evidence. Thing like pre-planning, intent, purpose need to be demonstrated, not merely assumed / asserted.

You have yet to give a shred of evidence for this assumption.
So far, all you have is "it's complicated". That is only evidence of you not understanding it. Not that it was made by the super being that you happen to believe in.

There is a goal that involves functionality of the connected parts... without which, the entire system breaks down.

What "goal"?

What system are you proposing, that has that goal - natural selection? How so?
Natural selection is not goal oriented.

I'm not claiming any goals at all. I have no clue why you think that I am.

The requirements are evidently according to plan. They have a specific purpose.

You keep claiming that. Are you going to support it, or are you just going to keep claiming it?

This gives evidence of design...

Bare claims aren't evidence of anything. Except perhaps gullibility.

You have yet to explain natural design.

I already told you: patterns and processes that emerge from the laws of nature working on matter.

We are talking about the brain, not color, or size. or antics.

Yes. The brain is a pattern of matter and this pattern triggers chemical processes.

I have no problem with adaptation, being an observable fact.

Adapation = evolution.

However, if you are saying the brain is a natural design, you need to explain what that means, and how it happened. As far as I know, you are making unconfirmed assumptions.

Reproduce, mutate, survive, repeat.
I already told you how we know that brain building is regulated by genetics, how brains size is regulated by genetics, how variation of brain size is regulated by genetic mutation, how we have plenty of examples of extant species that have extremely simple rudimentary brains all the way upto species with large complex brains, how we know from the fossil record that brains of the human lineage have gradually grown bigger over the past couple million years.

The OP asked for evidence for God. This is just one evidences, as we know that design requires a designer, and we also know there is cause and effect.

We also know that natural processes can and do result in natural design all the time.
You being ignorant (or too stubborn to learn) about that, doesn't change that fact.

Natural selection is not goal oriented.

Never said it was.

The design of the connections in the brain are all intended toward a specific goal.

Bare claim again.

Yes, they / you assume that.

Not an assumption.

upload_2020-10-22_21-59-43.png



Another assumption. We have what? Nothing/

Not an assumption.

Factually, throughout the animal kingdom, we have examples of very small and simple rudimentary brains all the way up to the large complex human brain and plenty of examples in between.

Kind of strange that you would call that an "assumption".
The alternative to this factoid would be to claim that all animals have a brain of the same size and complexity. Clearly that is not the case.


Brain building? Sound like something unscientific

If you wish to call embryology "unscientific".

:rolleyes:

. I wonder where you got that idea from, other than your head.

High school biology.

Evolution of the brain - Wikipedia
The principles that govern the evolution of brain structure are not well understood....
One approach to understanding overall brain evolution is to use a paleoarchaeological timeline to trace the necessity for ever increasing complexity in structures that allow for chemical and electrical signaling. Because brains and other soft tissues do not fossilize as readily as mineralized tissues, scientists often look to other structures as evidence in the fossil record to get an understanding of brain evolution. This, however, leads to a dilemma as the emergence of organisms with more complex nervous systems with protective bone or other protective tissues that can then readily fossilize occur in the fossil record before evidence for chemical and electrical signaling. Recent evidence has shown that the ability to transmit electrical and chemical signals existed even before more complex multicellular lifeforms.

Fossilization of brain, or other soft tissue, is possible however, and scientists can infer that the first brain structure appeared at least 521 million years ago, with fossil brain tissue present in sites of exceptional preservation.

Another approach to understanding brain evolution is to look at extant organisms that do not possess complex nervous systems, comparing anatomical features that allow for chemical or electrical messaging.

I wasn't talking about brain evolution. I was talking about the buildup / growth of the brain during embryonic development. In the beginning of pregnancy, the "child" doesn't have a brain or braincells. And then a couple months later, it does. Are you not aware of this?


The fact that mutations can make brain sizes vary, is what matters.
Not all mutations are going to have the same ripple effects. What it proves, is that brain size not only can be, but IS, regulated/determined by genetics.

Picking on those mutations that also have harmful side-effects, doesn't change that fact.

Also not that most mutations, even beneficial ones, oftenly come with a cost. It's usually a tradeoff if the benefit outweighs the cost.

For example....
Consider a mutation that increases bone density by loading it up with more calcium.
Suppose this happens in a species that benefits from it.
That calcium needs to come from somewhere...
So, either it needs to alter its diet so that it takes up more calcium. Or the calcium is to be taken from elsewhere in the body, meaning that there is less calcium available now for other stuff.
In case of the latter, the benefit of stronger bones must outweigh the loss of calcium in those other systems.


Having said that... ever wondered why wisdom teeth hurt like hell and why most people need to have them pulled out? I'll tell you: because our mouth is too small for all our teeth. We used to have bigger mouth, with enough room for all those teeth. But our brain exploded in size. Today, our cranium takes up more room. And analogous to the calcium in the above example, that room needs to be taken from somewhere: our mouth. A bigger head isn't an option as that would give problems for childbirth.

So today, due to a brain that trippled in size in only a couple million years, we have a mouth that is too small to house all our teeth.

See, how all that stuff neatly comes together to form a bigger picture? That's what they call "explanatory power".

Now you can try and explain how an "intelligent designer" apparently was so dumb that he gave us a set of teeth with a mouth to small to fit all of them.

Or you can let go of this iron age superstition and read up on modern 21st century biology.
It's your choice off course.

Based on assumptions yes. Science, no.
Evolution of neuronal types and families
Major questions in the evolution of neurons and nervous systems remain unsolved, such as the origin of the first neuron, the possible convergent evolution of neuronal phenotypes, and the transition from a relatively simple decentralized nerve net to the complex, centralized nervous systems found in modern bilaterian animals.


Don't confuse the "how" with the "if".

Determining that a structure evolved is not the same as finding out the exact evolutionary path that was taken to end up with said structure.

As an analogy... let's go to Lenski's E.Coli experiment.

12 populations, non of which are able to metabolize citrate. Physically impossible to do so.
After x generations, 1 population has a population explosion. Turns out, they are feeding on citrate and that novel food source means an abundance of food, leading to a larger population size that can be sustained.

Nobody went into that population to fiddle around with the genes to create this metabolic pathway.
So, they KNEW the feature evolved. But they didn't know HOW yet.

They then went back to previous generations (they kept samples in a freezer so that they could trace it back if such things happened). And by doing so, they were able to identify exactly which mutations were responsible for it.

So there you go.....
Determining that a structure evolved without knowing how it evolved - perfectly possible.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Can you show that 40M years is enough time to evolve a microbe in to a multicellular arthropod?

A microbe??
Maybe you should read up as well.

Multicellular macroscopic life existed (at least) some 100 million years already before the cambrian explosion occured.

Centimeter long multicellular life existed a ~billion years before the cambrian explosion.


The cambrian explosion is not the start of multicellular life. Not even by a long shot.

Why don’t you simply join the scientific consensus and admit that “ @Hockeycowboy ” is corrrect nobody knows how large scale macro evolution occurred?.....

He is not arguing the "how". He is arguing the fact itself. Big difference and the whole point of the argument.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Ether energy was created (or came in to being) at some point or energy has always existed

The first is impossible according to the laws of nature (first law oft thermodynamics) the second is also impossible (second law of thermodynamics)

So the only alternatives are ether science is wrong (the laws are wrong) or there is/was something supernatural that violated the laws of nature.

So your alternatives are accepting the supernatural or become a science denier? Which one do you choose?
No, I am just stating that what you say does not show more scientific knowledge than the one that can be found in answers in genesis, lol.

for instance, the total energy of the universe might very well be zero. So, what law of thermodynamics has been violated, in your opinion?

ciao

- viole
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Personal interaction with Deities and Spirits on a regular basis has led to my belief in Gods. Experience is evidence enough IMO.

But personal experience is subjective by it's very nature. How do you separate things coming from your own brain from things originating from an entity outside of yourself?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I'm signing off, so I will just post this now.

I assume you have seen a circuit board
schematic.gif

This is a circuit board.

Would you say the circuit board was not designed, and has no designer?
Absurd right.

Let's suppose you never saw a circuit board in your life, would you conclude there is no way of knowing how it got like that. Perhaps you need more evidence it was designed?
How do we know it was designed?

sn-allenbrain.png

This, they say, represents the connections in the brain... of a mouse.
It's incomplete.
They say these connections between brain cells, are about 200 from a mouse’s visual cortex, out of 1,300.
A tiny mouse.
mouse.png


Oh, they are looking at spending 7.75 million to map every circuit in the brain, but not to get side tracked, that's a different story.

Moving though, to the human body...
Why would you say the brain is not designed?
Because there is no evidence that a designer exists. A circuit board is a cride analogy only but does not represent the circuitry in the brain, which also relies on chemical signals from other parts of the body and from sensory inputs..
You must demonstrate that the designer actually exists first. We know a circuit board is designed because we have evidence of who designed it. We have no such evidence of a god.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
But personal experience is subjective by it's very nature. How do you separate things coming from your own brain from things originating from an entity outside of yourself?

Why should I try to separate it? The only thing I can ever be 100% sure of, is what I think/feel/perceive. And if the Gods are to interact with us, why would it not be through our minds, the most sensitive and delicate sensing organ we have?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Why should I try to separate it? The only thing I can ever be 100% sure of, is what I think/feel/perceive. And if the Gods are to interact with us, why would it not be through our minds, the most sensitive and delicate sensing organ we have?

Yes you can be certain that you feel things. But you cannot be certain of your interpretation of what those things were.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
A microbe??
Maybe you should read up as well.

Multicellular macroscopic life existed (at least) some 100 million years already before the cambrian explosion occured.

Centimeter long multicellular life existed a ~billion years before the cambrian explosion.

Ok can you show that 40M years is enough time to evolve whatever existed before the Cambrian in to multicellular antropods? (say a trilobite)?
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
for instance, the total energy of the universe might very well be zero. So, what law of thermodynamics has been violated, in your opinion?

ciao

- viole


No the total energy is not zero, what the literature says is that maybe the energy from matter and the energy from gravity is balanced.

While this is an very interesting and intriguing possibility, it´s irrelevant and doesn’t solve the problem.

So ether energy came from somewhere (the first law of thermodynamics is wrong)

Or energy is eternal ( second law is wrong)

Or the there is something supernatural that can violate the laws
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
You are begging the question that the mind is not reducible to physics. I mean, it is not difficult to prove anything, including the existence of the spiritual realm, by making unsubstantiated assumptions.
They are not assumptions. They are evidenced based conclusions.
However, I accept that you doubt the conclusion.
We don't swallow the beliefs of your conclusions either... which are undeniably, assumptions.

and as you say, our minds, whatever “our” means in this context, have different connections. Physical connections.
Sorry. I wasn't referring to the physical connections. :)

why the designer devised such a complicated machine, with 100 billions cells connected in the most complicated way, when the mind can live without it, is probably the biggest dilemma for anything believing in souls, and conscious experiences outside the brain. I would say that if that is design, it would fall more into the SD category, rather than in the ID one.
When you build a brain that works half as good as mine :D we can talk about it.

and to single out an uncreated created begs the question, again. I could equally say that the universe, or the multiverse, or anything that exists, are a brute fact that do not deserve further explanations.

ciao

- viole
If you claim a multiverse, you need some sort of evidence you can point to, that says it exist. Can you do that? ;)
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
For those here who might be interested in reasoning on this....

The human brain has a capacity that is nowhere near reaching its full potential, in our current life span.
Why would evolution provide something beyond what’s not even utilized?

Natural selection doesn’t choose, what isn’t used. How, then, did that capacity get there? Why do we have it?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
It was your choice to use computer component.
If there are no unnatural materials used, there still is the signs of manufacturing.

Like Mt Rushmore. No non-natural materials there. But clear signs of carving.


I know. It's part of the problem.
What I mean is, that the parts are put together with things like glue and soldering
These are things we expect from an artificial production process, as opposed to a natural development.
Forget the glue. Forget the soldering and the bolts.
The components, are united, with specific requirements, toward an intended purpose, or goal.
The combining of connected parts must meet specific requirements, in order for the goal to be reached.


Not at all. YOU are assuming that there is planning, intent, purpose. I'm not making any such assumptions. Neither am I assuming that there isn't. I just go by the evidence. Thing like pre-planning, intent, purpose need to be demonstrated, not merely assumed / asserted.
So you have to assume that gears assembled in a specific way to pull levers, and set handles in motion, for a continuous event, involves intent and purpose. I see.
I am sorry to hear that coming from a scientist.
It makes me think you are in the wrong field of work.

Hummingbird Anatomy
Beak or Bill:
The beak or bill on a hummingbird is longer in proportion to their body than other birds. This is so they can reach deep down into a tubular flower to get the nectar. A hummingbird's beak is not hollow. They do not sip nectar up like a straw. The beak or bill has an upper and lower portion, much like any other bird. Both the upper and lower beak is covered in a substance called rhamphotheca. This sheath is made of a keratin like material much like your fingernails. The top of the beak, called the maxilla, overlaps the lower beak slightly. The lower beak is also slightly flexible and can widen and bend lightly downward as the hummingbirds open their mouths. Hummingbirds have a joint in the upper jaw, just behind the maxilla. This joint enables the maxilla to bend back toward the head slightly as the hummingbirds open their mouths.

Eyes:
Hummingbirds have very large eyes in proportion to their body weight. The eyes are set on the side of the head allowing the hummingbird to see both ahead (binocular vision) and on the side peripherally (monocular vision). The eyes are protected by twelve (12) or more bones surrounding it called ossicles. Hummingbirds have many more rods and cones than humans in their eyes to help them see well. This makes them better able to see colors and ultraviolet light. Hummingbird's eyes will regularly outweigh a hummingbird's brain.

Tongue:
The tongue on a hummingbird is very long. It is grooved like the shape of a "W". On the tip of the tongue are brushy hairs that help lap up nectar from a flower. A hummingbird can lap up nectar at a rate of about thirteen (13) licks per second. Hummingbirds have only a few taste buds on the tongue. Hummingbirds can taste just enough to know what is good and what is bad. They can also taste what too sweet, not sweet enough, or just right.

Wings:
A hummingbird's wings are unlike any other bird's wings. They allow a hummingbird fly forward, backward, hover, and even fly upside-down for a short period of time. Hummingbirds are the only birds in the world that can fly like this. A hummingbird can perform these feats of acrobatics for several reasons. First of all their shoulder joint is a ball and socket joint that allows the hummingbird to rotate their wings one hundred eighty (180) degrees in all directions. Hummingbird wings with beat about seventy (70) times per second while in regular flight and up to 200 times per second when diving. (Smaller hummingbird's wings beat about thirty-eight (38) to about seventy-eight (78) times a second while larger ones beat their wings about eighteen (18) to twenty-eight (28) times per second.) Hummingbirds don't flap their wings, they rotate them. When hummingbirds fly, they move their wings in an oval pattern, except when they are hovering. When they are hovering they will move their wings in a figure-eight motion. A hummingbird can fly at an average speed of twenty-five (25) to thirty (30) miles per hour, and dive at a speed of up to sixty (60) miles per hour. When hummingbirds fly, they fly upright, facing the world, not flat like most birds.

Biomimetics
Aircraft wing design and flight techniques are being inspired by birds and bats. The aerodynamics of streamlined design of improved Japanese high speed train Shinkansen 500 Series were modelled after the beak of kingfisher bird.

Biorobots based on the physiology and methods of locomotion of animals include BionicKangaroo which moves like a kangaroo, saving energy from one jump and transferring it to its next jump. Kamigami Robots, a children's toy, mimic cockroach locomotion to run quickly and efficiently over indoor and outdoor surfaces.

Construction and architecture
Researchers studied the termite's ability to maintain virtually constant temperature and humidity in their termite mounds in Africa despite outside temperatures that vary from 1.5 °C to 40 °C (35 °F to 104 °F). Researchers initially scanned a termite mound and created 3-D images of the mound structure, which revealed construction that could influence human building design. The Eastgate Centre, a mid-rise office complex in Harare, Zimbabwe, stays cool without air conditioning and uses only 10% of the energy of a conventional building of the same size.

Researchers in the Sapienza University of Rome were inspired by the natural ventilation in termite mounds and designed a double façade that significantly cuts down over lit areas in a building. Scientists have imitated the porous nature of mound walls by designing a facade with double panels that was able to reduce heat gained by radiation and increase heat loss by convection in cavity between the two panels. The overall cooling load on the building’s energy consumption was reduced by 15%.

A similar inspiration was drawn from the porous walls of termite mounds to design a naturally ventilated façade with a small ventilation gap. This design of façade is able to induce air flow due to the Venturi effect and continuously circulates rising air in the ventilation slot. Significant transfer of heat between the building’s external wall surface and the air flowing over it was observed. The design is coupled with greening of the façade. Green wall facilitates additional natural cooling via evaporation, respiration and transpiration in plants. The damp plant substrate further support the cooling effect.

Scientists in Shanghai University were able to replicate the complex microstructure of clay-made conduit network in the mound to mimic the excellent humidity control in mounds. They proposed a porous humidity control material (HCM) using Sepiolite and calcium chloride with water vapor adsorption-desorption content at 550 grams per meter squared. Calcium chloride is a desiccant and improves the water vapor adsorption-desorption property of the Bio-HCM. The proposed bio-HCM has a regime of interfiber mesopores which acts as a mini reservoir. The flexural strength of the proposed material was estimated to be 10.3 MPa using computational simulations.

In structural engineering, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) has incorporated biomimetic characteristics in an adaptive deployable "tensegrity" bridge. The bridge can carry out self-diagnosis and self-repair. The arrangement of leaves on a plant has been adapted for better solar power collection.
Man mimics nature with a purpose and goal in mind, but what he mimics has no specific purpose. Is that correct?
Marine mussels can stick easily and efficiently to surfaces underwater under the harsh conditions of the ocean. Mussels use strong filaments to adhere to rocks in the inter-tidal zones of wave-swept beaches, preventing them from being swept away in strong sea currents. Mussel foot proteins attach the filaments to rocks, boats and practically any surface in nature including other mussels. These proteins contain a mix of amino acid residues which has been adapted specifically for adhesive purposes.

Of course, the mussel adapted a glue for the purpose of not being swept away. It said to itself, I need to devise a plan, so that I can stick here, and not be dislodged. Ah! Glue.

Hummingbirds' wings 'shape-shift'
The ultimate aim of his measurements of the movements of the wings is to copy their function in the design of flying robots.

"We are curious about the precise wing shape," Mr Maeda told BBC News. "The feathers [move and] change the wing area as they are flapping."

This movement of the primary flight feathers, the researchers found, changes the shape and size of the wing in such a way as to very precisely control the lift they generate.

The eventual aim is to design wings for miniature flying robots that would be able to perform in a similar way.

I think we have enough evidence to show that the precision is goal driven, and purposeful.

You have yet to give a shred of evidence for this assumption.
So far, all you have is "it's complicated". That is only evidence of you not understanding it. Not that it was made by the super being that you happen to believe in.
I never even used the word complicated, so no... that's your idea, and a strawman.
 
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