What is your opinion of Jesus?

[Dimi95]

This is not a reflection on your opinion. Maybe you are right, and maybe not.

Why do you think that?

Quora is not really a good source to use. It is essentially a forum, not unlike this one, where intelligent people (and maybe some not so intelligent) give their personal opinions. Sometimes you might find a good phrase that you can use to google other, more authoritative sources, but you can't assume that anything anyone says there is accurate, anymore than posts in here.

Applied Science is Applied Science.
Either on this forum or somewhere else.

I used their capabilities to explain the point.
The emphasys was never on the source as was more on the capable medical staff.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Well , they can determine death for sure if death apears,or?

Well, I was a registered nurse and I could call it. You specifically said doctors, though, so I was curious about that part.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I mean, none of the doctors I have worked with would be caught dead in a fast moving ironic accident machine.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There is an old adage to put your money where your mouth is.
So, 'yes' it is the living (aka life style) but one's living or life style according to Jesus is to include to declare (discuss) the 'good news of God's Kingdom' on a global or international scale Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8

Since you mention the 'words of Jesus' then I find the 'words of Jesus' at Matthew 5:5 about people living on Earth.
Inheriting the Earth and that would be once the wicked are gone.
Living forever on Earth was Not a new teaching of Jesus but Jesus referring back to the Psalms such as Psalm 37:9-11 and Psalm 22:26 because enemy 'death ' will end on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:26 - so people living on Earth will Not die but can gain everlasting life -> on Earth as Jesus taught.

Remember: Adam ( humans ) were created to live forever on -> Earth.
Earth was Not meant to be a stepping stone to Heaven.
Heaven is for angels ( spirit persons ) and Jesus chose a few people to govern with him in Heaven over Earth.
These people are called to be Not angels, but as saints or holy ones of Daniel 7:18; Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10

If that's what your religious teaching says, then fine, and if another's religious teaching that is not a part of yours', has some unique teaching that's not in yours', that's fine for them. It is about what you do in your life wrt your religion's teaching, not anothers, and vice virsa.

Fwiw, as for the specific JW teaching about heaven on Earth, it is not my understanding, so I have no expectation of it ever manifesting. Heaven is a spiritual domain, it is not a 3D reality like Earth life, eternal spiritual life in Heaven is the soul goal.

 

[Dimi95]

Well, I was a registered nurse and I could call it. You specifically said doctors, though, so I was curious about that part.

It was meant only as quotation from the referenced link.

I did not pay atention how was the medical staff defined.
Probably the reporter did not bother about staff ranks and took 'doctor' as a person who is capable to practice applied medicine.

I am pretty sure they did not paid atention to that.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That’s cool.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Applied Science is Applied Science.

Quora is not a peer reviewed journal. It is not even a reputable science website that reports these sorts of studies. Again, quora is imply a forum where anyone can say anything, no different than here.

 

[Dimi95]

Quora is not a peer reviewed journal. It is not even a reputable science website that reports these sorts of studies.

It's irrelevant.
The point of the argument does not depend on that.
These are personal testimonies of people who practice applied science and their capabilities matter to the point, regardless of where is published.
The content does not make the need for peer reviewed journal.
It is just about the capability of medical staff to declare state of death.
You don't have to make a big deal out of it with peer viewed journal.
The Relibility of Science is not affected since we are talking about capabilities of medical staff.
So what if other then doctors can do that.Is not that more usefull in general?

Again, quora is imply a forum where anyone can say anything, no different than here.

Ok , no more Quora i promise.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It's irrelevant.
The point of the argument does not depend on that.

I can't remember if the quora sub-thread is a spinoff of the sacred fire thread, or something else.

My only point is that quora is not a valid source, and I have explained why.

These are personal testimonies

Personal testimonies are called anecdotes. Anecdotes are never evidence.

of people who practice applied science and their capabilities matter to the point, regardless of where is published.

You have a great deal of faith in what people say about themselves online. I'm sure that sometimes genuine scientists probably do comment on quora. But you have no way to tell them apart from those that are catfishing you, and they are very very common.

The content does not make the need for peer reviewed journal.
It is just about the capability of medical staff to declare state of death.
You don't have to make a big deal out of it with peer viewed journal.

I accept as evidence only two things. One is a well reasoned argument, no fallacies. The second is a genuine scientific study with all the proper controls in place and data properly crunched, published in a peer reviewed Journal. As these are not always available online or difficult to find, I tend to bend the rules for scientific websites that make direct references to such studies.

The Relibility of Science is not affected since we are talking about capabilities of medical staff.
So what if other then doctors can do that.Is not that more usefull in general?

I am not following you here. Are you once more suggesting that I simply believe what any stranger could be saying on Quora? Do you not understand that *I* could get on quora, and say anything I want? I could claim to be an astrophysicist, or that I know of a study linking plastic particles in our food to transgenderism.

Ok , no more Quora i promise.

Okay, okay. fair enough Yeah, I guess that we kind of talked this to death. I'm fine with moving on.

 

[Dimi95]

I can't remember if the quora sub-thread is a spinoff of the sacred fire thread, or something else.

My only point is that quora is not a valid source, and I have explained why.

Neither i object or argue what you say.

Personal testimonies are called anecdotes. Anecdotes are never evidence.

They matter if their bear truthfull claims that are compatible with the given evidence.
But in many cases they are not, we agree on that.

You have a great deal of faith in what people say about themselves online.

No , that is totally irrelevant to me.
What is relevant to me is the accuracy of applied medicine as accurate science.
It seems that they are compatible in this case.

I will look up for more reliable evidence

I don't see anything medically incorrect in the sayings , that is why i don't think they should be dismissed as 'not a reliable source'

I'm sure that sometimes genuine scientists probably do comment on quora.

Yes but declaring death is simple procedure for medical staff.
They practice applied science , they must be able to do it as enviourment makes it neccessary.

But you have no way to tell them apart from those that are catfishing you, and they are very very common.

I have menaged to stay away from obvious projections

I don't think this one is.

I accept as evidence only two things. One is a well reasoned argument, no fallacies.

What do you see fallacious in my argument?

The second is a genuine scientific study with all the proper controls in place and data properly crunched, published in a peer reviewed Journal.

I consider this as confirmation bias as peer reviewed Journal makes no importance on what is emphasized here.

As these are not always available online or difficult to find, I tend to bend the rules for scientific websites that make direct references to such studies.

I will look up for more reliable evidence.

That however will not change the capibility of Paramedics to practice applied science and declare rightfully state of death.
They posses the knowledge to do it so.

I am not following you here. Are you once more suggesting that I simply believe what any stranger could be saying on Quora?

No

I am saying that these sources contain 'content' that can be verfied as applied science.
It doesn't change the fact that most Paramedics are medically capable to declare state of death.

Do you not understand that *I* could get on quora, and say anything I want?

Yes i understand that.

But still makes no difference to thele point i want to make.

.m I could claim to be an astrophysicist, or that I know of a study linking plastic particles in our food to transgenderism.

Still most Paramedics know how to declare state of death.

Okay, okay. fair enough Yeah, I guess that we kind of talked this to death. I'm fine with moving on.

Nono , everything is friendly.

I seek no interest in persuing others to belive as i belive

 

[IndigoChild5559]

They matter if their bear truthfull claims that are compatible with the given evidence.

Someone can be utterly honest in relaying their experience, and be utterly wrong about what they are reporting.

For example, let's say a woman is attacked and saw her attacker. The police provide six guys in a lineup. It seems to be a common BIAS in human brain wiring that in such cases, we assume the perp is one of the guys in the lineup. In fact, her attacker is NOT in the lineup. But what happens is that she identifies the man who is closest to what she remembers. And worse, the appearance of the guy she just falsely identified now replaces the original memory. She goes to court confidently asserting that the defendant is the man who attacked her, when in fact he was not.

What do you see fallacious in my argument?

"I trust this this person, therefore what he says is true."

I am saying that these sources contain 'content' that can be verfied as applied science.

That may be the case, but in that instance, what we need is a link to the applied science.

It doesn't change the fact that most Paramedics are medically capable to declare state of death.

I outlined the very narrow conditions where such could happen in my state -- these conditions exclude trauma based deaths. I don't know what things are like where you live. Could be that the rules are completely different.

 

[InChrist]

He’s been bitter about the idea since Eden.

What does that mean?

 

[InChrist]

Interesting that you say point or condition of eternal life is meant to be.
Interesting because the Bible teaches about two (2) resurrections:
* A first or earlier resurrection to life in Heaven for some - see Rev. 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10; Daniel 7:18.
* A later or future resurrection (Acts 24:15) for people who will inherit (Not Heaven) but inherit the Earth.
The Earth as Jesus promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26 and beautifully described by Isaiah's paradisical word picture found in the 35th chapter of Isaiah.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don’t agree with the Watchtower doctrine concerning the resurrection or that some believers will not inherit heaven. I do agree the scriptures show two resurrections; one for the just, the first resurrection to eternal life in heaven, on earth with Jesus during the Millennial Kingdom, and then the new heaven and earth. The first resurrection occurs in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself opened the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. The scriptures show there will be the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thess. 4:6), then the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the tribulation ( Rev. 20:4). Old Testament saints will then also be resurrected at the end of the tribulation; they are also part of the first resurrection.

The second resurrection is for the wicked, judged at the Great White Throne. This resurrection takes place after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth/Millennial Kingdom and corresponds to the second death and those who receive eternal damnation.

 

[Dimi95]

Someone can be utterly honest in relaying their experience, and be utterly wrong about what they are reporting.

Yes , but that is not the issue of the discussion.

For example, let's say a woman is attacked and saw her attacker. The police provide six guys in a lineup. It seems to be a common BIAS in human brain wiring that in such cases, we assume the perp is one of the guys in the lineup. In fact, her attacker is NOT in the lineup. But what happens is that she identifies the man who is closest to what she remembers. And worse, the appearance of the guy she just falsely identified now replaces the original memory. She goes to court confidently asserting that the defendant is the man who attacked her, when in fact he was not.

The conclusion of what i argued is that paramedics are medically capable of declaring state of death.
It is medical knowledge that they gain through practice and everyday situations.
Nothing more.
What would make the difference?
Reliable source?
I will look it up..

"I trust this this person, therefore what he says is true."

Well , i don't think i am doing that.
The emphasys is strickly on the capability of medical staff regarding state of death.

That may be the case, but in that instance, what we need is a link to the applied science.

Definitions of death: brain death and what matters in a person - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You can compare it with the sources.

I outlined the very narrow conditions where such could happen in my state -- these conditions exclude trauma based deaths. I don't know what things are like where you live. Could be that the rules are completely different.

I think that you missed the point i want to argue.

 

[Stonetree]

The subject of EMTs is off topic...........Unfortunately, my family has needed to use their services far too often....Perhaps another Thread would be more appropriate.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because there is absolutely no evidence Jesus is the Son of God or a God.

Over the centuries the Bible has many enemies from both within and without and No one can get rid of the Bible.
Plus, No one can get rid of Bible people or stop the declaring of the good news of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Who in the 1st century would have risked their lives if there was No evidence.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...........Fwiw, as for the specific JW teaching about heaven on Earth, it is not my understanding, so I have no expectation of it ever manifesting. Heaven is a spiritual domain, it is not a 3D reality like Earth life, eternal spiritual life in Heaven is the soul goal.

Yes, Heaven is a spiritual domain (God lives in Heaven - 1st Kings 8:39) and so do the angels.
Spirit angels will never live on Earth. Adam was never an angel before living on Earth.
Adam was created to live forever on Earth. If Adam had Not broken God's Law Adam would be here alive today.
The 'goal' to eternal spiritual life in Heaven is God's choosing. God chooses who will govern in Heaven with Christ Jesus.
That is why those called to Heaven are referred to as Christ's 'brothers' - Rev. 2:10-11; 3:12; 12:10; 17:14; 19:10
You are Not alone in having No expectation of life on Earth as a soul or soul goal.
While alive Adam was a living soul ( Gen. 2:7 ) at death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul.
Remember: the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - so a dead person is a dead soul.
Otherwise, there would be No need for a resurrection if the dead person is alive - Acts 24:15

- www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The second resurrection is for the wicked, judged at the Great White Throne. This resurrection takes place after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth/Millennial Kingdom and corresponds to the second death and those who receive eternal damnation.

Since the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Psalm 145:20 ; Proverbs 2:21-22 - there is No need for them to be part of a second resurrection but rather: second death - Revelation 21:8

The living figurative ' sheep ' at the time of Matthew 25:31-34,37 are not alone on Earth for one-thousand years.
Those who prove righteous ( the sheep and the resurrected ) gain everlasting life after the 1,000 yr reign.
The sheep who remain righteous and the unrighteous (Acts 24:15) who choose to become and remain righteous will inherit the Earth (everlasting life on Earth) as Jesus promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
So, the 'saints/holy ones' (Dan. 7:18) are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection to Heaven - Rev. 20:6
The righteous and unrighteous (KJV just and unjust) are the one who will have a physical resurrection on Earth.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, Heaven is a spiritual domain (God lives in Heaven - 1st Kings 8:39) and so do the angels.
Spirit angels will never live on Earth. Adam was never an angel before living on Earth.
Adam was created to live forever on Earth. If Adam had Not broken God's Law Adam would be here alive today.
The 'goal' to eternal spiritual life in Heaven is God's choosing. God chooses who will govern in Heaven with Christ Jesus.
That is why those called to Heaven are referred to as Christ's 'brothers' - Rev. 2:10-11; 3:12; 12:10; 17:14; 19:10
You are Not alone in having No expectation of life on Earth as a soul or soul goal.
While alive Adam was a living soul ( Gen. 2:7 ) at death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul.
Remember: the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - so a dead person is a dead soul.
Otherwise, there would be No need for a resurrection if the dead person is alive - Acts 24:15

- www.jw.org

God created all the exists, nothing exists that was not created by God, therefore it follows that all that exists is an expression of the one omnipresent God.
Since the source of you is God, that which makes the Adam/physical body a living soul is God's spirit.
The purpose of creation is for God to experience existence throughout all creation, and specifically the purpose of the Divine spirit within you is first for your Adam/body to become a living soul, and secondly beyond that, so your soul becomes a Heavenly eternal spiritual being.
This second process can only happen when and if you are born of the spirit. Remember, that which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of Heaven.
God's manifestation, the physical universe, is a creation of God, it serves no other purpose than for God to express/create and experience.
Material things (including human bodies) are always dying or disintegrating for whatever reason, and simultaneously material things are always being born or created. So do not be too concerned about physical things, for your body is a temple of God, and temples are dying and being born all the time, but do be concerned about the soul, for unless you realize what and who you really are in the context of all existence itself, you will not see the kingdom of God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God created all the exists, nothing exists that was not created by God, therefore it follows that all that exists is an expression of the one omnipresent God.
Since the source of you is God, that which makes the Adam/physical body a living soul is God's spirit.
The purpose of creation is for God to experience existence throughout all creation, and specifically the purpose of the Divine spirit within you is first for your Adam/body to become a living soul, and secondly beyond that, so your soul becomes a Heavenly eternal spiritual being.
This second process can only happen when and if you are born of the spirit. Remember, that which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of Heaven.
God's manifestation, the physical universe, is a creation of God, it serves no other purpose than for God to express/create and experience.
Material things (including human bodies) are always dying or disintegrating for whatever reason, and simultaneously material things are always being born or created. So do not be too concerned about physical things, for your body is a temple of God, and temples are dying and being born all the time, but do be concerned about the soul, for unless you realize what and who you really are in the context of all existence itself, you will not see the kingdom of God.

Yes, ' flesh and blood...' (physical can Not inherit the kingdom...) 1st Corinthians 15:50 because those called to Heaven will have a resurrected heavenly spirit body as Jesus has.
The living figurative 'sheep' at Jesus coming Glory Time ( see Matt. 25:31-34,37 ) are alive here on Earth.
They'll see calendar Day One of Jesus' Millennium-Long Day governing (Not over Heaven) but governing over Earth.
Those resurrected to heavenly life have two (2) jobs to perform with Christ Jesus. - see Rev. 5:9-10
They will govern with Jesus as being both a king and a priest under Christ as High Priest and King.
* As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth
* As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.
The humble meek people who will inherit ( Not Heaven ) but inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26