What is your opinion of Jesus?

[URAVIP2ME]

That means nothing...There are other translations without comma...
.............................................................................................. In stark contrast to Adam and Eve who were not forgiven, even if they didn't know right from wrong, neither were given the chance to repent, with all the "theological" consequences for humanity.

My mistake..sorry. Matthew 16:27 and Revelation state that judgement of people will be carried out after Jesus' second coming.

Thank you for your reply
The reason why I mentioned the placement of the comma (,) is because the day Jesus died he did Not go to any paradise but to the grave - Acts 2:27 - so to say the day Jesus died he did Not go to the grave is wrong.

Yes, good point about Matt.16:27 (Luke 9:26 too) being in connection to Rev. 19:14-15 because that is one reason why we ask God for Jesus to come ! Rev. 22:20 - aka second coming is to bring judgement.
Please notice it is the living people at the soon coming time of separation as found at Matt. 25:31-34,37
The figurative 'sheep' receive a favorable judgement and can be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' second coming

According to Scripture both Adam and Eve DID Know right from wrong - Gen. 2:17; Gen. 3:2-3
Unlike us they were sinless people. They could only sin on purpose, not accidently like us.
Because we are innocent of what they deliberately did is why God sent Jesus to Earth for us - Gen. 3:15
Jesus proved to be that promised 'seed' (Messiah) to save /deliver/ rescue us from ' second death ' - Rev. 21:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, what happened to his physical body? If he was resurrected in spiritual body, his physical body must have remained and decayed normally. You understand that this theory raises questions as to whether Jesus resurrection was literal or spiritual.
Not true. On all his post resurrection appearances Jesus had a materialized body, yet no one recognized him.
If you think that Jesus changed constantly between spirit and various materialized bodies even to enter a house, then it takes all credibility out of the story. And what happened to the food he had just eaten when he changed from materialized to spirit immediately? Did it fall on the floor?
Even if this is true, why couldn't he take the body he had whilst on earth, so that everyone could recognize him? And how the 500, mentioned by Paul, who saw him after his resurrection, recognized him, if his close circle could not?
For example, in the story concerning the walk to Emmaus, Jesus was supposed to be in his normal physical body, but for some "reason" his companions' eyes did not recognize him until he broke the bread. Also why did he say to Mary "do not touch me", but asked Thomas to touch him? In order for both to see him he should have been in his materialized body.
A lot of weird and unnecessary "stories".
Any evidence of that?

Evidence such as found at Genesis 6:2-4 angelic sons had relations with earth's women.
Yes, God got rid of Jesus' dead physical body.
I find No verse saying 'immediately' changed from a materialized body into a spirit body or vice versa.
Jesus would Not take a physical body to heaven because 'flesh' (physical) does Not go to Heaven - 1st Cor. 15:50
Close friends did Not recognized the resurrected Jesus until he revealed himself to them, which he did.
By the time of the ascension (500) those people there knew Jesus was the resurrected Jesus.
Jesus did Not want Mary to cling to him ( as in stay here don't leave us )
Doubting Thomas needed proof from Jesus, whereas Mary did not.
Remember we don't can't see angels, so in order to be manifest for us a materialized body would be needed

 

[Ajax]

Thank you for your reply
The reason why I mentioned the placement of the comma (,) is because the day Jesus died he did Not go to any paradise but to the grave - Acts 2:27 - so to say the day Jesus died he did Not go to the grave is wrong.

Yes, good point about Matt.16:27 (Luke 9:26 too) being in connection to Rev. 19:14-15 because that is one reason why we ask God for Jesus to come ! Rev. 22:20 - aka second coming is to bring judgement.
Please notice it is the living people at the soon coming time of separation as found at Matt. 25:31-34,37
The figurative 'sheep' receive a favorable judgement and can be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' second coming

According to Scripture both Adam and Eve DID Know right from wrong - Gen. 2:17; Gen. 3:2-3
Unlike us they were sinless people. They could only sin on purpose, not accidently like us.
Because we are innocent of what they deliberately did is why God sent Jesus to Earth for us - Gen. 3:15
Jesus proved to be that promised 'seed' (Messiah) to save /deliver/ rescue us from ' second death ' - Rev. 21:8

Thank you for your reply too. So what Jesus supposedly told to the thief was wrong.
Because the thief being saved simply because he said "Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom" is contrary to what Jesus said in Matthew 16:27 "....and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Also Adam and Eve did not know good and evil before eating the fruit. Their brain was like kids' brain, not being able to distinguish between right and wrong. So for them the serpent's words had the same validity as God's. See Isaiah 7-15 "He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good..."
I find the comparison of treatment between the thief and them, very unfair.

 

[Ajax]

Evidence such as found at Genesis 6:2-4 angelic sons had relations with earth's women.

Sorry, but Abrahamic theology teaches that angels do not have gender.

Yes, God got rid of Jesus' dead physical body.

So it was not a proper literal resurrection if the physical body of Jesus was not resurrected.
It may sound silly to you, but are Jesus' bones supposed to be somewhere in Israel now, or God destroyed completely his physical body, for what reason and where is this stipulated in the Bible?

I find No verse saying 'immediately' changed from a materialized body into a spirit body or vice versa.

Luke 24:30-31 "When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight."

By the time of the ascension (500) those people there knew Jesus was the resurrected Jesus.

May I ask how they knew?

Jesus did Not want Mary to cling to him ( as in stay here don't leave us )

No, she didn't want to cling to him. I understand Greek and in the original version Jesus said to her "Μη μου απτου" (mi mou aptou). Aptou comes from the verb "aptomai" meaning.. touch. In any case Jesus told her that she can not touch him, because he had not not yet ascended to his Father. But he had not yet ascended to the Father, when allowed Thomas to touch him.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thank you for your reply too. So what Jesus supposedly told to the thief was wrong.
Because the thief being saved simply because he said "Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom" is contrary to what Jesus said in Matthew 16:27 "....and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Also Adam and Eve did not know good and evil before eating the fruit. Their brain was like kids' brain, not being able to distinguish between right and wrong. So for them the serpent's words had the same validity as God's. See Isaiah 7-15 "He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good..."
I find the comparison of treatment between the thief and them, very unfair.

I find Adam and Eve were husband and wife - Gen. 2:24
Even a child's brain can understand do Not eat from one particular tree - Gen 2:17
Unlike a today's child ( inclined to do wrong because of inherited imperfection from fallen father Adam ) Adam and Eve were created sinless. Unlike us, they could only sin on purpose.
I don't see the connection to Adam and Eve with Isaiah 7:13-17 ( sign of Immanuel )

 

[Ajax]

I find Adam and Eve were husband and wife - Gen. 2:24

I don't understand what this has to do with our discussion...

Even a child's brain can understand do Not eat from one particular tree - Gen 2:17

No, if two entities tell a very young child, who does not know good from bad, to do two opposite things, the child does not know which one to follow.

Unlike a today's child ( inclined to do wrong because of inherited imperfection from fallen father Adam ) Adam and Eve were created sinless. Unlike us, they could only sin on purpose. I don't see the connection to Adam and Eve with Isaiah 7:13-17 ( sign of Immanuel )

I suppose you think that Isaiah 7:13-17 refers to Jesus, right?
Well, Jesus was sinless, but according to Isaiah he needed to grow up before he knew how to refuse the evil and choose the good.

May I ask you if you belong to any denomination?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sorry, but Abrahamic theology teaches that angels do not have gender.
So it was not a proper literal resurrection if the physical body of Jesus was not resurrected.
It may sound silly to you, but are Jesus' bones supposed to be somewhere in Israel now, or God destroyed completely his physical body, for what reason and where is this stipulated in the Bible?
Luke 24:30-31 "When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight."
May I ask how they knew?
No, she didn't want to cling to him. I understand Greek and in the original version Jesus said to her "Μη μου απτου" (mi mou aptou). Aptou comes from the verb "aptomai" meaning.. touch. In any case Jesus told her that she can not touch him, because he had not not yet ascended to his Father. But he had not yet ascended to the Father, when allowed Thomas to touch him.

As God and Jesus are referred to as 'he or him' so are the angels. ALL angels are considered as male gender.
In Revelation Christ's figurative bride (female) is made up of both men and women.
As God took care of Moses' remains, so he did with Jesus. No chance of making idols out of them.
Right, with Mary and Thomas both were before the time of Acts 1:9
Mary, like us, could Not see a spirit person, so Jesus used a materialized body so Mary could see him.
Perhaps there is something somewhat similar to touch as to want to cling to. Jesus knew her feelings.
I thought of Mary in the touching sense of hugging whereas with Thomas that would Not be the case.
Both times resurrected 'spirit person Jesus' (see 1st Peter 3:18 B) used a materialized body for both of them

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................................................................
No, if two entities tell a very young child, who does not know good from bad, to do two opposite things, the child does not know which one to follow.
I suppose you think that Isaiah 7:13-17 refers to Jesus, right?
Well, Jesus was sinless, but according to Isaiah he needed to grow up before he knew how to refuse the evil and choose the good.
May I ask you if you belong to any denomination?

Yes, to me Isaiah 7:14-17 does reference to Messiah (Immanuel as in 'name/title') aka Jesus role as Christ the Messiah
- Isaiah 9:6; John 1:14; 1st Timothy 3:16; Matt. 1:22-23; Luke 1:30-35
However, I find Isaiah 7:13 mentions David, so God's promise to David is also involved in the birth of Isaiah's son.
Plan war it will Not stand, for God is with us - Isaiah 8:5-10 - thus Isaiah and sons were given as 'signs' - Isaiah 7:14; 8:18, so since Isaiah and his children were 'signs' the initial Immanuel could have been an imperfect prophet's son.
Jesus of course being the Greater Immanuel of Genesis 3:15 and as David's rightful heir to the throne.
So, a first or initial fulfillment about Messiah would or must have been in Isaiah's day.
Remember: Jesus was never addressed by the proper name Immanuel - Isaiah 7:14; 8:3-4

As far as denomination I am here to discuss what I think the Bible really teaches rather then discuss denominations

 

[paarsurrey]

Immanuel

"Immanuel" means "God with us" and it does not fit on Pauline invented concept of NT Bible when he says “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” right, please?

Regards

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"Immanuel" means "God with us" and it does not fit on Pauline invented concept of NT Bible when he says “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” right, please?

Regards

It is said he was quoting the first line of Psalms 22. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" a message of lament and praise of the Lord by David Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - New International Version

 

[paarsurrey]

It is said

Who said it, please?

Regards

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Who said it, please?

Regards

"My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?" Psalm 22 as Direct Predictive Prophecy concerning Jesus Christ on the Cross

What Jesus Was Doing When He Recited Psalm 22 from the Cross - Seedbed

Why did Jesus quote Psalms 22:2 on the cross?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Immanuel" means "God with us" and it does not fit on Pauline invented concept of NT Bible when he says “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” right, please?
Regards

When we do things God's way then God is with us ( for us)
However, if we choose to do what is wicked then God is Not with us but can end up against us

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Immanuel" means "God with us" and it does not fit on Pauline invented concept of NT Bible when he says “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” right, please?
Regards

Not sure what you mean because the title-name Immanuel is Not a personal name that Jesus was called
Paul did Not write the words of Matthew 27:46 or Mark 15:34

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Who said it, please?

Regards

Also please note that Psalms 22 also contains a prophetic vision of his crucifixion and the division and casting lots for his clothing.

Verses 16 - 18
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me
they pierce my hands and my feet.
All my bones are on display
people stare and gloat over me.
They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

 

[Ajax]

As God and Jesus are referred to as 'he or him' so are the angels. ALL angels are considered as male gender.

This is simply male chauvinism. Women were considered a lower class of humans and still are in some religions.

As God took care of Moses' remains, so he did with Jesus. No chance of making idols out of them.

No where is this mentioned. It's simply a fantasy. If Jesus was only spiritually resurrected, then his remains are still on Earth. But nobody dared claim this, otherwise the story of resurrection would collapse with people.

Right, with Mary and Thomas both were before the time of Acts 1:9
Mary, like us, could Not see a spirit person, so Jesus used a materialized body so Mary could see him.
Perhaps there is something somewhat similar to touch as to want to cling to. Jesus knew her feelings.
I thought of Mary in the touching sense of hugging whereas with Thomas that would Not be the case.
Both times resurrected 'spirit person Jesus' (see 1st Peter 3:18 B) used a materialized body for both of them

I don't disagree, but my question is why could not be touched by Mary (citing as an excuse that he was not yet ascended to his Father), yet at the same time he invited Thomas to touch him. I have become very skeptical of most stories in the Bible, so I don't rule out the possibility that the Thomas incident was fabricated to show people that Jesus was literally and physically resurrected.

 

[Ajax]

Yes, to me Isaiah 7:14-17 does reference to Messiah (Immanuel as in 'name/title') aka Jesus role as Christ the Messiah
- Isaiah 9:6; John 1:14; 1st Timothy 3:16; Matt. 1:22-23; Luke 1:30-35
However, I find Isaiah 7:13 mentions David, so God's promise to David is also involved in the birth of Isaiah's son.
Plan war it will Not stand, for God is with us - Isaiah 8:5-10 - thus Isaiah and sons were given as 'signs' - Isaiah 7:14; 8:18, so since Isaiah and his children were 'signs' the initial Immanuel could have been an imperfect prophet's son.

Well, if you think that Isaiah 7:14 refers to Jesus, then your claim (Unlike a today's child ( inclined to do wrong because of inherited imperfection from fallen father Adam ) Adam and Eve were created sinless) can not stand. Jesus was supposedly sinless too and according to the prophet he needed some time before he knew how to refuse the evil and choose the good.
Thankfully for you though Isaiah 7:14 has nothing to do with Jesus. It was clearly (as stated) a sign for king Ahaz to see soon, in his life time.

Jesus of course being the Greater Immanuel of Genesis 3:15 and as David's rightful heir to the throne.

I disagree. Jesus must have been a direct descendant of King David (Isaiah 11:1) through King Solomon (I Proverbs 22:8-10), only if Solomon kept his faith in God Yahweh (II Chronicles 7 :19) which, however, did not keep finally (1 Kings 11:4).
Plus there was a curse on king Jeconiah and Joseph was not Jesus father. Royal inheritance was always through males.

 

[Ajax]

Also please note that Psalms 22 also contains a prophetic vision of his crucifixion and the division and casting lots for his clothing.

Verses 16 - 18
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me
they pierce my hands and my feet.
All my bones are on display
people stare and gloat over me.
They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

Correct translation:
For dogs have encompassed me;
a company of evildoers have enclosed me;
like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

Notice that the English translation from the original Hebrew does not contain the word “pierced.” The King James version deliberately mistranslated the Hebrew word kaari (כָּאֲרִי) as “pierced,” rather than “like a lion,” thereby drawing the reader to a false conclusion that this Psalm is describing the Crucifixion. The Hebrew word כָּאֲרִי does not mean pierced but plainly means “like a lion. The end of Psalm 22:17, therefore, properly reads “like a lion they are at my hands and my feet.” Had King David wished to write the word “pierced,” he would never have used the Hebrew word kaari. Instead, he would have written either daqar or ratza, which are common Hebrew words in the Jewish Scriptures. These common words mean to “stab” or “pierce.” Needless to say, the phrase “they pierced my hands and my feet” is a not-too-ingenious Christian contrivance that appears nowhere in Tanach.

Bear in mind, this stunning mistranslation in the 22nd Psalm was not born out of ignorance. Christian translators were well aware of the correct meaning of this simple Hebrew word. They fully understood the meaning of the word כָּאֲרִי and deliberately twisted their translations of this text. The word kaari can be found in many other places in the Jewish scriptures and they correctly translated כָּאֲרִי “like a lion” in all places in Christian Bibles where this word appears with the exception of Psalm 22—the Church’s cherished “Crucifixion Psalm.”

For example, the identical word kaari is also found in Isaiah 38:13. In the immediate context of this verse King Hezekiah is singing a song for deliverance from his grave illness. In the midst of his supplication he exclaims in Hebrew “שִׁוִּ֤יתִי עַד־בֹּ֙קֶר֙ כָּֽאֲרִ֔י” Notice that the last word in this phrase (moving from right to left) is the same Hebrew word kaari that appears in Psalm 22:17. In this Isaiah text, however, the King James Version correctly translates these words “I reckoned till morning that, as a lion…” As mentioned above, Psalm 22:17 is the only place in all of the Jewish Scriptures that any Christian Bible translates kaari as “pierced.”

A Closer Look at the “Crucifixion Psalm” - Outreach Judaism

Question: Dear Rabbi Singer, I am a Lutheran living in Switzerland and have been reading your web page with interest. I admire your commitment to your faith, yet I am perplexed as to why you so assuredly reject Jesus Christ as your messiah. He came not only for the gentiles, but for the Jews as

outreachjudaism.org

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Correct translation: For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evildoers have enclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet. Notice that the English translation from the original Hebrew does not contain the word “pierced.” The King James version deliberately mistranslated the Hebrew word kaari (כָּאֲרִי) as “pierced,” rather than “like a lion,” thereby drawing the reader to a false conclusion that this Psalm is describing the Crucifixion. The Hebrew word כָּאֲרִי does not mean pierced but plainly means “like a lion. The end of Psalm 22:17, therefore, properly reads “like a lion they are at my hands and my feet.” Had King David wished to write the word “pierced,” he would never have used the Hebrew word kaari. Instead, he would have written either daqar or ratza, which are common Hebrew words in the Jewish Scriptures. These common words mean to “stab” or “pierce.” Needless to say, the phrase “they pierced my hands and my feet” is a not-too-ingenious Christian contrivance that appears nowhere in Tanach. Bear in mind, this stunning mistranslation in the 22nd Psalm was not born out of ignorance. Christian translators were well aware of the correct meaning of this simple Hebrew word. They fully understood the meaning of the word כָּאֲרִי and deliber- ately twisted their translations of this text. The word kaari can be found in many other places in the Jewish scriptures and they correctly translated כָּאֲרִי “like a lion” in all places in Christian Bibles where this word appears with the exception of Psalm 22—the Church’s cherished “Crucifixion Psalm.” For example, the identical word kaari is also found in Isaiah 38:13. In the immediate context of this verse King Hezekiah is singing a song for deliverance from his grave illness. In the midst of his supplication he exclaims in Hebrew “שִׁוִּ֤יתִי עַד־בֹּ֙קֶר֙ כָּֽאֲרִ֔י” Notice that the last word in this phrase (moving from right to left) is the same Hebrew word kaari that appears in Psalm 22:17. In this Isaiah text, however, the King James Version correctly translates these words “I reckoned till morning that, as a lion…” As mentioned above, Psalm 22:17 is the only place in all of the Jewish Scriptures that any Christian Bible translates kaari as “pierced.” A Closer Look at the “Crucifixion Psalm” - Outreach Judaism Question: Dear Rabbi Singer, I am a Lutheran living in Switzerland and have been reading your web page with interest. I admire your commitment to your faith, yet I am perplexed as to why you so assuredly reject Jesus Christ as your messiah. He came not only for the gentiles, but for the Jews as outreachjudaism.org Ok.... Verses 16 - 18 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment. For dogs have surrounded me; a band of evildoers has encompassed me, like a lion, my hands and feet. יזכִּֽי־סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֖רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּֽ֜אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי: I tell about all my bones. They look and gloat over me. יחאֲסַפֵּ֥ר כָּל־עַצְמוֹתָ֑י הֵ֥מָּה יַ֜בִּ֗יטוּ יִרְאוּ־בִֽי: They share my garments among themselves and cast lots for my raiment. יטיְחַלְּק֣וּ בְגָדַ֣י לָהֶ֑ם וְעַל־לְ֜בוּשִׁ֗י יַפִּ֥ילוּ גוֹרָֽל:

 

[Muffled]

If you are hearing a voice with your ears that no one else is hearing, that IS a hallucination. However, I suspect that what you may mean is that you hear a voice inside your head. It is extremely common and normal for many people to have an inner monologue, or even dialogue. That would not be a hallucination, but simply a mild dissociation, where you are confusing your own inner voice with that of God.

I believe you are right. I hear the words in my head as easily as I hear my own words or those of my spirit. I believe you are right that I associate the words with the source. I believe there is not usually any confusion about where the words ae coming from. Saying that I am confused is an invalid assumption.