"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

[Soapy]

///I’m going to ask you to excuse your own error. Jesus DID NOT SAY that he would raise himself from the dead//
That's not what the scriptures say . If its a choice of beliveing you or the scriptures, its going to be the scriptures.
John 2
18¶Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19¶Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20¶Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21¶But he spake of the temple of his body .

22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I see you do not refer to the previous verses that Jesus was responding to.... that is where Trinitarians and yourself go astray in your thinking.

You already admit that TRUE VERSES state that:

• ‘GOD RAISED UP JESUS CHRIST’

and yet you continue to insinuate that JESUS raised himself from the dead...!

Trinitarians who are desperate to process that Jesus is God use that line... but you know they are wrong! The context of the verse in question was regarding Jesus’ ZEAL for the house of HIS FATHER (HIS Father’S HOUSE....!) Jesus knew that once he died that ZEAL would be (like a building) TORN DOWN ... and you know that is what happened!
But Jesus, speaking in the spirit, proclaimed that in three days he would ‘RAISE BACK UP THE ZEAL’ by the resurrection of his body.... that when the disciples and followers saw that he was resurrected they would REGAIN THE ZEAL.

Jesus spoke of HIMSELF raising up the ‘dead’:

• “For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

The giving of life to an entity is to ‘Father’ the entity. For Jesus to ‘give life to himself’ would mean that he is his own Father! Yes, it’s nonsense... and exactly so... because it was THE Father, Yahweh GOD, who gave Jesus’ spirit back into an inert, dead, lifeless body and made such a body immortal.

• “God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear (Acts 2:32,33).

• We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

We see here that ‘Jesus Christ’ was raised... not ‘raised himself’... by the glory of the Father, which is the Father’s HOLY SPIRIT. The previous verse shown tells that Jesus Christ RECEIVED the full control of the Father’s Holy Spirit and sent it into the disciples/apostles, as we know from the Pentecost event. And as you also know, Jesus said it was a ‘THE PROMISED GIFT FROM THE FATHER’ which puts paid to the trinitarian view that the Holy Spirit was BELONGING to Jesus. In fact, doesn’t that make trinity look silly in that the ‘third GOD’ of the trinity is passed around like confetti...!!! What kind of GOD is that... sheer paganism for sure!! And stepping back, how is Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD if he was granted to sit next to ALMIGHTY GOD and granted to have control of the spirit of God... since when is almighty God GRANTED anything - seeing that almighty God is the owner of everything righteous and holy!!!?

And to underline again:

• Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead (Galatians 1:1).

Here, Paul states clearly that God the Father raised up Jesus Christ.

So, you say to let scriptures speak for itself... you should also let scriptures read for itself - Jesus did not say he would raise himself up from the dead but rather, he spoke of the ‘temple of his body’, the church of God, of which he is the head. That if the temple of his body was destroyed by the Jews, that he would raise it back up again - he would restore it in three days - when GOD (when the Father: Almighty God: Yahweh) RAISED HIM from the dead... and he did when he appeared to the disciples.... and thereafter to 40,000 or so others to bring together the congregation (church) that would further the word of God in their time.

 

[Soapy]

What you probably witnessed was veneration of Mary, which is not the same as praying.

But one thing that is important is that Catholic teaching, along with some other denominations as well, allows one to pray through a saint, much like you and I can pray for each other. In the Apostles Creed, it's referred to as "the communion of saints" whether those saints be alive or have "passed over". However, the saints are viewed as not having power on their own but may intercede on our behalf to God.

Personally, I do not know if this is true to reality, nor do I lose any sleep over this, but I do know some feel solace with this. So, if it helps them, why not?

These ‘Saints’ are dead. How do you pray to the living God through the dead?

Do you think Almighty God appreciates communication of the dead when the instruction he gave to mankind through Jesus was to ‘PRAY TO THE FATHER IN THE NAME OF THE LIVING SON’ (paraphrased)

 

[metis]

These ‘Saints’ are dead. How do you pray to the living God through the dead?

Are the saints whom have died on Earth also dead in heaven? What about the one man on the cross next to Jesus whereas Jesus said he would be seeing him in heaven based on the man's faith? Doesn't "the communion of saints" as found in the Apostle's Creed tell you something?

 

[John1.12]

I see you do not refer to the previous verses that Jesus was responding to.... that is where Trinitarians and yourself go astray in your thinking.

You already admit that TRUE VERSES state that:

• ‘GOD RAISED UP JESUS CHRIST’

and yet you continue to insinuate that JESUS raised himself from the dead...!

Trinitarians who are desperate to process that Jesus is God use that line... but you know they are wrong! The context of the verse in question was regarding Jesus’ ZEAL for the house of HIS FATHER (HIS Father’S HOUSE....!) Jesus knew that once he died that ZEAL would be (like a building) TORN DOWN ... and you know that is what happened!
But Jesus, speaking in the spirit, proclaimed that in three days he would ‘RAISE BACK UP THE ZEAL’ by the resurrection of his body.... that when the disciples and followers saw that he was resurrected they would REGAIN THE ZEAL.

Jesus spoke of HIMSELF raising up the ‘dead’:

• “For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

The giving of life to an entity is to ‘Father’ the entity. For Jesus to ‘give life to himself’ would mean that he is his own Father! Yes, it’s nonsense... and exactly so... because it was THE Father, Yahweh GOD, who gave Jesus’ spirit back into an inert, dead, lifeless body and made such a body immortal.

• “God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear (Acts 2:32,33).

• We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

We see here that ‘Jesus Christ’ was raised... not ‘raised himself’... by the glory of the Father, which is the Father’s HOLY SPIRIT. The previous verse shown tells that Jesus Christ RECEIVED the full control of the Father’s Holy Spirit and sent it into the disciples/apostles, as we know from the Pentecost event. And as you also know, Jesus said it was a ‘THE PROMISED GIFT FROM THE FATHER’ which puts paid to the trinitarian view that the Holy Spirit was BELONGING to Jesus. In fact, doesn’t that make trinity look silly in that the ‘third GOD’ of the trinity is passed around like confetti...!!! What kind of GOD is that... sheer paganism for sure!! And stepping back, how is Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD if he was granted to sit next to ALMIGHTY GOD and granted to have control of the spirit of God... since when is almighty God GRANTED anything - seeing that almighty God is the owner of everything righteous and holy!!!?

And to underline again:

• Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead (Galatians 1:1).

Here, Paul states clearly that God the Father raised up Jesus Christ.

So, you say to let scriptures speak for itself... you should also let scriptures read for itself - Jesus did not say he would raise himself up from the dead but rather, he spoke of the ‘temple of his body’, the church of God, of which he is the head. That if the temple of his body was destroyed by the Jews, that he would raise it back up again - he would restore it in three days - when GOD (when the Father: Almighty God: Yahweh) RAISED HIM from the dead... and he did when he appeared to the disciples.... and thereafter to 40,000 or so others to bring together the congregation (church) that would further the word of God in their time.

True verses ? What are you talking about . I believe Every word of the bible is true . Jesus says he will raise his own body up after death . Then we see the 'God head 'works in unity in this occurance . With the Father and Holy Spirit also involved in the resurrection .

 

[John1.12]

I see you do not refer to the previous verses that Jesus was responding to.... that is where Trinitarians and yourself go astray in your thinking.

You already admit that TRUE VERSES state that:

• ‘GOD RAISED UP JESUS CHRIST’

and yet you continue to insinuate that JESUS raised himself from the dead...!

Trinitarians who are desperate to process that Jesus is God use that line... but you know they are wrong! The context of the verse in question was regarding Jesus’ ZEAL for the house of HIS FATHER (HIS Father’S HOUSE....!) Jesus knew that once he died that ZEAL would be (like a building) TORN DOWN ... and you know that is what happened!
But Jesus, speaking in the spirit, proclaimed that in three days he would ‘RAISE BACK UP THE ZEAL’ by the resurrection of his body.... that when the disciples and followers saw that he was resurrected they would REGAIN THE ZEAL.

Jesus spoke of HIMSELF raising up the ‘dead’:

• “For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

The giving of life to an entity is to ‘Father’ the entity. For Jesus to ‘give life to himself’ would mean that he is his own Father! Yes, it’s nonsense... and exactly so... because it was THE Father, Yahweh GOD, who gave Jesus’ spirit back into an inert, dead, lifeless body and made such a body immortal.

• “God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear (Acts 2:32,33).

• We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6:4).

We see here that ‘Jesus Christ’ was raised... not ‘raised himself’... by the glory of the Father, which is the Father’s HOLY SPIRIT. The previous verse shown tells that Jesus Christ RECEIVED the full control of the Father’s Holy Spirit and sent it into the disciples/apostles, as we know from the Pentecost event. And as you also know, Jesus said it was a ‘THE PROMISED GIFT FROM THE FATHER’ which puts paid to the trinitarian view that the Holy Spirit was BELONGING to Jesus. In fact, doesn’t that make trinity look silly in that the ‘third GOD’ of the trinity is passed around like confetti...!!! What kind of GOD is that... sheer paganism for sure!! And stepping back, how is Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD if he was granted to sit next to ALMIGHTY GOD and granted to have control of the spirit of God... since when is almighty God GRANTED anything - seeing that almighty God is the owner of everything righteous and holy!!!?

And to underline again:

• Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead (Galatians 1:1).

Here, Paul states clearly that God the Father raised up Jesus Christ.

So, you say to let scriptures speak for itself... you should also let scriptures read for itself - Jesus did not say he would raise himself up from the dead but rather, he spoke of the ‘temple of his body’, the church of God, of which he is the head. That if the temple of his body was destroyed by the Jews, that he would raise it back up again - he would restore it in three days - when GOD (when the Father: Almighty God: Yahweh) RAISED HIM from the dead... and he did when he appeared to the disciples.... and thereafter to 40,000 or so others to bring together the congregation (church) that would further the word of God in their time.

Please let's stick to the verses in question .
17And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.


18¶then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19¶Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple ,AND IN THREE DAYS ( how many days ? three days )

20¶Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21¶But he spake of the temple of his body .

22when therfore he was risen from the dead ,his diciples REMEMBERED THAT he had said this unto THEM ; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

23¶Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the MIRACLES which he did.

24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he KNEW ALL MEN ,

25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

These verse are so painfully obviously talking about the resurrection . Its clear that he says HE will raise his body up .
And its clear that he is God from these verses . Including the last verse . ZEAL is not connected to these latter verses thats the context of the prior verses .

 

[Soapy]

//So Jesus told the Jews that [when] they destroyed the ‘Zeal’ that he would raise it back up in three days.// This is the most unique and creative rendition of these verse I've ever seen .lol Where does it say that in the text ?

I think you are hating the truth and want to retain the trinity rendition - which even you have pointed out is not true.

You have lived with the raise rendition and exported it in your dialogues for so long that you feel somehow obliged to retain it.

I’m sure you read the verses I pointed to you which completely discredits what you and Trinitarians are saying. But you ignore it. That shows you are not willing to embrace the truth.

So, since you are sure that what I said was untrue, can you show where it is not true. Which part of ‘GOD raised Jesus from the dead’ puts Jesus as ‘God’ raising ‘God’ from the dead?

 

[Muffled]

what we see in other religions and philosphies is a claim on Jesus . As a Christian we of course have our differences on certain verses and doctrines . But this is within christianity. We see the issue is down to our free will and different opinions and such . But imagine to our horror ,when we see other religions who make a claim on Jesus and what he taught and they have not the same world view . Its hard enough within the same worldview , But what we see is all these claims from ' outside ' and how radical theses claims are .
Here are a few
Mormonsim teaches Jesus went to America to preach to the natives .

Jehovah's_Witnesses teach that Jesus is micheal the Arch Angel .

Hinduism and Buddhism see Jesus as a spiritual guide of sorts . An enlightened one.

Islam. He's a prophet. Not the Son of God and that he certainly didn't die on a cross or resurrect.

We could name countless religions who have a claim on Jesus . Its always a different Jesus than the Jesus of the bible . Of course this shows he impacted the world and not Just in Jerusalem, but the whole world . But we have radically different claims on him .

Thoughts?

I believe everyone has to approach interpretation on their reasoning process. If that is flawed then the conclusions are flawed.

 

[John1.12]

I think you are hating the truth and want to retain the trinity rendition - which even you have pointed out is not true.

You have lived with the raise rendition and exported it in your dialogues for so long that you feel somehow obliged to retain it.

I’m sure you read the verses I pointed to you which completely discredits what you and Trinitarians are saying. But you ignore it. That shows you are not willing to embrace the truth.

So, since you are sure that what I said was untrue, can you show where it is not true. Which part of ‘GOD raised Jesus from the dead’ puts Jesus as ‘God’ raising ‘God’ from the dead?

All the verses show the unity within the God head . They work together.

 

[Muffled]

Every human beings who believe in Christianity or other religious teachings will have their own understanding of the different spiritual teachers, or about if they were enlighten or not, from God or not.
It will be wrong of me to claim i know who Jesus truly was, and no matter what i personally believe, it should not make a christian person fear my words, because since i am not Christian my thoughts on Christianity and the role of Jesus, or even if Jesus truly are Gods son will probably be wrong anyway.

I believe you have an advantage in that you are not tethered to false teachings as some people are.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I believe you have an advantage in that you are not tethered to false teachings as some people are.

I try to use the teaching and my brain together when i read scripture i spend hours pondering what it actually means.

 

[Muffled]

I think the early Christians fashioned their own Jesus independently of the historical Jesus for theological reasons and others followed in their footsteps.

I believe that belief has no foundation. So the questions are: Have you imagined it, read it by someone claiming to know something or something else?

 

[Muffled]

I try to use the teaching and my brain together when i read scripture i spend hours pondering what it actually means.

I believe I have an advantage, having a close relationship with God, His guidance is available tome to interpret difficult scripture. He was quite helpful when I read the Qu'ran.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I believe I have an advantage, having a close relationship with God, His guidance is available tome to interpret difficult scripture. He was quite helpful when I read the Qu'ran.

I can not claim to have a hotline to Allah, but i have in my own words a netter understanding now, than before i become a sufi

 

[Soapy]

True verses ? What are you talking about . I believe Every word of the bible is true . Jesus says he will raise his own body up after death . Then we see the 'God head 'works in unity in this occurance . With the Father and Holy Spirit also involved in the resurrection .

Ohh... I hear you laughing at the evidence.

Yes, just like Trinitarians do when caught out. How do you believe that at different time a verse says:

• God raised up Jesus
• The Father raised up Jesus
• The Holy Spirit raised up Jesus
• Jesus raised himself up

and say this is a ‘Godhead’... a term unheard of by any true translation of scriptures.

The ‘Godhead’, ...so called... is nothing more than ‘The Holy Spirit of the Father’. Scriptures says that the Father was pleased that the son should be filled with his Holy Spirit. But since trinity cannot stomach the truth, it CHANGED the term into an unheard of term ‘Godhead’.

But do you notice that (nah! Of course you wouldn’t) that ... IT DOESN’T WORK!!

For Jesus to be filled with the ‘Godhead’ would mean that Jesus is filled with ‘FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT’ (or how do you define, ‘Godhead’)

But, if Jesus is filled with the Godhead, so-called, then WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE he was filled with the Godhead... if he was GOD before being filled with the Godhead... which is Father, son, and Holy Spirit...

But the truth is that GOD (the Father; Yahweh) said to Jesus, the son, at the baptism of Jesus as God ANOINTED him with HIS Holy Spirit :

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased”

which mirrors what GOD (YAHWEH) prophesied in Isaiah 42:1:

• “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

What in that verse do you not see mirrored at Jesus’ baptism at the river Jordan?

So, here, The Father ANOINTS Jesus. And the scriptures mirrors both parts:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

Are you going to tell me that you don’t recognise the truth of what is written here... the so-called, ‘Godhead’ is in fact, the Holy Spirit with which GOD anointed Jesus, which meant Jesus had FULL ACCESS (but not owned) the Holy Spirit of the Father... and with this power, he could enormous things but as always, power can corrupt, so Jesus was STRAIGHTWAY sent to be tempted in the wilderness to see if he would misuse this great power - and the man, Jesus, did not misuse it... Jesus passed where the man, Adam, failed:
The Father was delighted to fill the son with his Holy Spirit.

 

[John1.12]

Ohh... I hear you laughing at the evidence.

Yes, just like Trinitarians do when caught out. How do you believe that at different time a verse says:

• God raised up Jesus
• The Father raised up Jesus
• The Holy Spirit raised up Jesus
• Jesus raised himself up

and say this is a ‘Godhead’... a term unheard of by any true translation of scriptures.

The ‘Godhead’, ...so called... is nothing more than ‘The Holy Spirit of the Father’. Scriptures says that the Father was pleased that the son should be filled with his Holy Spirit. But since trinity cannot stomach the truth, it CHANGED the term into an unheard of term ‘Godhead’.

But do you notice that (nah! Of course you wouldn’t) that ... IT DOESN’T WORK!!

For Jesus to be filled with the ‘Godhead’ would mean that Jesus is filled with ‘FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT’ (or how do you define, ‘Godhead’)

But, if Jesus is filled with the Godhead, so-called, then WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE he was filled with the Godhead... if he was GOD before being filled with the Godhead... which is Father, son, and Holy Spirit...

But the truth is that GOD (the Father; Yahweh) said to Jesus, the son, at the baptism of Jesus as God ANOINTED him with HIS Holy Spirit :

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased”

which mirrors what GOD (YAHWEH) prophesied in Isaiah 42:1:

• “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

What in that verse do you not see mirrored at Jesus’ baptism at the river Jordan?

So, here, The Father ANOINTS Jesus. And the scriptures mirrors both parts:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

Are you going to tell me that you don’t recognise the truth of what is written here... the so-called, ‘Godhead’ is in fact, the Holy Spirit with which GOD anointed Jesus, which meant Jesus had FULL ACCESS (but not owned) the Holy Spirit of the Father... and with this power, he could enormous things but as always, power can corrupt, so Jesus was STRAIGHTWAY sent to be tempted in the wilderness to see if he would misuse this great power - and the man, Jesus, did not misuse it... Jesus passed where the man, Adam, failed:
The Father was delighted to fill the son with his Holy Spirit.

Colossians 2:9

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

 

[John1.12]

Ohh... I hear you laughing at the evidence.

Yes, just like Trinitarians do when caught out. How do you believe that at different time a verse says:

• God raised up Jesus
• The Father raised up Jesus
• The Holy Spirit raised up Jesus
• Jesus raised himself up

and say this is a ‘Godhead’... a term unheard of by any true translation of scriptures.

The ‘Godhead’, ...so called... is nothing more than ‘The Holy Spirit of the Father’. Scriptures says that the Father was pleased that the son should be filled with his Holy Spirit. But since trinity cannot stomach the truth, it CHANGED the term into an unheard of term ‘Godhead’.

But do you notice that (nah! Of course you wouldn’t) that ... IT DOESN’T WORK!!

For Jesus to be filled with the ‘Godhead’ would mean that Jesus is filled with ‘FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT’ (or how do you define, ‘Godhead’)

But, if Jesus is filled with the Godhead, so-called, then WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE he was filled with the Godhead... if he was GOD before being filled with the Godhead... which is Father, son, and Holy Spirit...

But the truth is that GOD (the Father; Yahweh) said to Jesus, the son, at the baptism of Jesus as God ANOINTED him with HIS Holy Spirit :

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased”

which mirrors what GOD (YAHWEH) prophesied in Isaiah 42:1:

• “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

What in that verse do you not see mirrored at Jesus’ baptism at the river Jordan?

So, here, The Father ANOINTS Jesus. And the scriptures mirrors both parts:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

Are you going to tell me that you don’t recognise the truth of what is written here... the so-called, ‘Godhead’ is in fact, the Holy Spirit with which GOD anointed Jesus, which meant Jesus had FULL ACCESS (but not owned) the Holy Spirit of the Father... and with this power, he could enormous things but as always, power can corrupt, so Jesus was STRAIGHTWAY sent to be tempted in the wilderness to see if he would misuse this great power - and the man, Jesus, did not misuse it... Jesus passed where the man, Adam, failed:
The Father was delighted to fill the son with his Holy Spirit.

I love how your grappling with the nature of God. I think most expect a god to exist in a form / being,/ essence ,to suit their imagination.

 

[Katzpur]

Your obviously missing the point . NO one is saved today apart from Believing the Gospel.

No, it's you who's missing the point. You keep referring to "the Gospel," and yet you have given no specifics. Every professing Christian today believes "the Gospel" as they understand it. Is that good enough for you? Or does a person have to believe "the Gospel" as you personally understand it?

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe you understand 1 cor 1.15 .1-4 .?

I don't believe you do.

 

[Katzpur]

My point is ,once a person understands fully what Mormons believe the odds of any Christian believing that they are Christian would be dramatically reduced . Some Christians even think Islam teaches the same God.

Many Christian believe that, and with good reason. The God that Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship is the God commonly known as "the God of Abraham."

 

[John1.12]

No, it's you who's missing the point. You keep referring to "the Gospel," and yet you have given no specifics. Every professing Christian today believes "the Gospel" as they understand it. Is that good enough for you? Or does a person have to believe "the Gospel" as you personally understand it?

Nearly ever time I've quoted 1 cor 15 ,1-4 .