"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

[John1.12]

Barry, Barry, Barry, you are really losing it now. Trying to worm your way out of your wrongful thinking is causing you to become delusional.

I QUOTED from the scriptures ...

What you are doing is to realise that the trinity version of ‘God’ does not fit the truth of the scriptures:

• ‘GOD’ anointed the man, Jesus, with HIS (God’s) Holy Spirit.

This tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF GOD.

This tells us that it is the POWER of SPIRIT OF GOD in Jesus Christ that causes him, Jesus Christ, Jesus, the anointed man, to carry out the works of his Father, His GOD (and should be OUR GOD):

• “Assuredly, The son can do nothing of himself... it is the Father in me... he doeth the deeds [through me]” (John 14:10)
• “Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17)
• "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.“ (John 14:28)

Here, these verses and many more, attest to Jesus claiming his Father as GOD. And even more, addressing his Father directly:

• After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:1-3)

Here, Jesus is speaking to HIS Father, to ALMIGHTY GOD: YAHWEH. Jesus then speaks in the third person about himself being GRANTED authority over all people (but if is actually authority over all created things - it’s just he is speaking SPECIFICALLY about humanity in this instance) because it is the Fathers good pleasure that this should be so.

Jesus, additionally, speaks of the time at the judgement seat when those chosen out of the world will be GRANTED ETERNAL LIFE BY JESUS - hence Jesus becomes ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ to them (as prophesied in Isaiah ... what God speaks must be fulfilled)
And finally, Jesus proclaims that, not only those chosen out of the world BY GOD, his Father, but that ALL who submit their spirits to the belief in the Father, in almighty God, in Yahweh... and in himself (again, addressed in the third person) will be granted ETERNAL LIFE (by Jesus at the judgement seat). Of course, this is not a frivolous ‘belief in God and Christ’.

Barry, it’s not a point of argument here but where is your third GOD? Afterall, nowhere, absolutely nowhere, does anyone claim a belief in, let alone that eternal life depends on believing in a three person pagan God!

The Acts of the Person of the Holy Spirit

• He teaches – John 14:26
• He testifies – John 15:26
• He guides – Rom. 8:14
• He speaks – 1 Cor. 2:13
• He enlightens – John 16:13
• He strives – Gen. 6:3
• He commands – Acts 8:28
• He intercedes – Rom. 8:26
• He sends workers – Acts 13:4
• He calls – Rev. 22:17
• He comforts – John 16:7
• He works – 1 Cor. 12:11

The above actions cannot be accomplished by a mere influence or force. Only a rational, emotional, and active person could do all that the Scriptures teach the Holy Spirit accomplishes.

 

[John1.12]

Barry, Barry, Barry, you are really losing it now. Trying to worm your way out of your wrongful thinking is causing you to become delusional.

I QUOTED from the scriptures ...

What you are doing is to realise that the trinity version of ‘God’ does not fit the truth of the scriptures:

• ‘GOD’ anointed the man, Jesus, with HIS (God’s) Holy Spirit.

This tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF GOD.

This tells us that it is the POWER of SPIRIT OF GOD in Jesus Christ that causes him, Jesus Christ, Jesus, the anointed man, to carry out the works of his Father, His GOD (and should be OUR GOD):

• “Assuredly, The son can do nothing of himself... it is the Father in me... he doeth the deeds [through me]” (John 14:10)
• “Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17)
• "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.“ (John 14:28)

Here, these verses and many more, attest to Jesus claiming his Father as GOD. And even more, addressing his Father directly:

• After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:1-3)

Here, Jesus is speaking to HIS Father, to ALMIGHTY GOD: YAHWEH. Jesus then speaks in the third person about himself being GRANTED authority over all people (but if is actually authority over all created things - it’s just he is speaking SPECIFICALLY about humanity in this instance) because it is the Fathers good pleasure that this should be so.

Jesus, additionally, speaks of the time at the judgement seat when those chosen out of the world will be GRANTED ETERNAL LIFE BY JESUS - hence Jesus becomes ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ to them (as prophesied in Isaiah ... what God speaks must be fulfilled)
And finally, Jesus proclaims that, not only those chosen out of the world BY GOD, his Father, but that ALL who submit their spirits to the belief in the Father, in almighty God, in Yahweh... and in himself (again, addressed in the third person) will be granted ETERNAL LIFE (by Jesus at the judgement seat). Of course, this is not a frivolous ‘belief in God and Christ’.

Barry, it’s not a point of argument here but where is your third GOD? Afterall, nowhere, absolutely nowhere, does anyone claim a belief in, let alone that eternal life depends on believing in a three person pagan God!

Paul noted the intellectual ability of the Holy Spirit when he asked, “What man knoweth the things of man save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God” (1 Cor. 2:11). The rational capacity of the Holy Spirit was expanded to include wisdom and communication when Paul’s prayer request for the Ephesians included “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him” (Eph. 1:17). The emotional ability of the Holy Spirit is evident in the word of the apostle, “the love of the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 15:30).

One of the problems associated with emotions is the possibility of being grieved by someone who is loved. The Bible warns Christians, “Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God” (Eph. 4:30). Isaiah cited an example of how Israel “rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit” (Isa. 63:10). The Holy Spirit has the ability to respond emotionally to the ideas and experiences he encounters. The Holy Spirit also has the ability of will and the ability to exercise it. By his own choice, the Holy Spirit accomplishes a number of specific acts, such as giving spiritual gifts. “But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will” (1 Cor. 12:11). The Holy Spirit performs the actions of a person. The Holy Spirit does a number of things only a person can do.

It should be noted that the Holy Spirit is not a Person because he does those things attributable to personality, but rather does the actions of the personality because he is a person. Consider the following chart to see how the Holy Spirit does those things which only a person can do.
But I'm guessing you have the same scripted answer the J witnesses use ?

 

[Soapy]

The Acts of the Person of the Holy Spirit

• He teaches – John 14:26
• He testifies – John 15:26
• He guides – Rom. 8:14
• He speaks – 1 Cor. 2:13
• He enlightens – John 16:13
• He strives – Gen. 6:3
• He commands – Acts 8:28
• He intercedes – Rom. 8:26
• He sends workers – Acts 13:4
• He calls – Rev. 22:17
• He comforts – John 16:7
• He works – 1 Cor. 12:11

The above actions cannot be accomplished by a mere influence or force. Only a rational, emotional, and active person could do all that the Scriptures teach the Holy Spirit accomplishes.

Barry, you are really pushing yourself into sheer desperation....

• IT teaches – John 14:26
• IT testifies – John 15:26
• IT guides – Rom. 8:14
• IT speaks – 1 Cor. 2:13
• IT enlightens – John 16:13
• IT strives – Gen. 6:3
• IT commands – Acts 8:28
• IT intercedes – Rom. 8:26
• IT sends workers – Acts 13:4
• IT calls – Rev. 22:17
• IT comforts – John 16:7
• IT works – 1 Cor. 12:11

The above actions cannot be accomplished by a mere influence or force. Only a rational, emotional, and active person could do all that the Scriptures teach the Holy Spirit accomplishes.

These actions are the actions of THE HOLY SPIRIT of GOD:

• The active spirit of righteousness
• The Spirit of truth

I see you try the trinitarian thing of belittling - belittling the nan, Jesus Christ, belittling the Holy Spirit of God - so that you can deny the power and authority in which they act....

NO BARRY!!! That is EXACTLY what is called:

• ‘Grieving the Holy Spirit’

If you call the truth a lie then you are grieving the truth, and grieving the person from whom the truth comes: Almighty God: The Father...

And ‘Father’ means:

• CREATOR;
• He who give Life;
• He who brings into being...

I, no doubt, think you are going to refuse this definition but nonetheless that is exactly what you are doing? IT IS the works of the Holy Spirit that God puts into the hearts, minds, and soul of those who do as Jesus says in John 17:3.

((And by the way, ‘Hearts, minds, and soul’ is not three persons in one body but simply a poetic set of wording for emphasise.))

Jesus, the holy, sinless, righteous man, Jesus of Nazareth, ‘the Last Adam’, born by the power, the breath of God, the Holy Spirit, just as the first man, Adam, DID NOTHING MIRACULOUS until AFTER he was baptised WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, wherein the voice of GOD ALMIGHTY was discerned as saying to him:

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased”

And the Apostles stated to the nations that said same thing concerning Jesus being anointed WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ...AND POWER.

But I guess since you discredit the power of almighty God you would certainly discredit the preaching of his servants...

Barry, when you look back in time to come, you will be the one grieving!! I am not here to persuade you finally - it is you that needs to persuade yourself to the truth and stop turning the truth of God into the lies of Satan.

But, Barry, YOU KNOW that you are being disingenuous - Why do you persist??

 

[John1.12]

Barry, you are really pushing yourself into sheer desperation....

• IT teaches – John 14:26
• IT testifies – John 15:26
• IT guides – Rom. 8:14
• IT speaks – 1 Cor. 2:13
• IT enlightens – John 16:13
• IT strives – Gen. 6:3
• IT commands – Acts 8:28
• IT intercedes – Rom. 8:26
• IT sends workers – Acts 13:4
• IT calls – Rev. 22:17
• IT comforts – John 16:7
• IT works – 1 Cor. 12:11

These actions are the actions of THE HOLY SPIRIT of GOD:

• The active spirit of righteousness
• The Spirit of truth

I see you try the trinitarian thing of belittling - belittling the nan, Jesus Christ, belittling the Holy Spirit of God - so that you can deny the power and authority in which they act....

NO BARRY!!! That is EXACTLY what is called:

• ‘Grieving the Holy Spirit’

If you call the truth a lie then you are grieving the truth, and grieving the person from whom the truth comes: Almighty God: The Father...

And ‘Father’ means:

• CREATOR;
• He who give Life;
• He who brings into being...

I, no doubt, think you are going to refuse this definition but nonetheless that is exactly what you are doing? IT IS the works of the Holy Spirit that God puts into the hearts, minds, and soul of those who do as Jesus says in John 17:3.

((And by the way, ‘Hearts, minds, and soul’ is not three persons in one body but simply a poetic set of wording for emphasise.))

Jesus, the holy, sinless, righteous man, Jesus of Nazareth, ‘the Last Adam’, born by the power, the breath of God, the Holy Spirit, just as the first man, Adam, DID NOTHING MIRACULOUS until AFTER he was baptised WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, wherein the voice of GOD ALMIGHTY was discerned as saying to him:

• “This is my son in whom I am well pleased”

And the Apostles stated to the nations that said same thing concerning Jesus being anointed WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ...AND POWER.

But I guess since you discredit the power of almighty God you would certainly discredit the preaching of his servants...

Barry, when you look back in time to come, you will be the one grieving!! I am not here to persuade you finally - it is you that needs to persuade yourself to the truth and stop turning the truth of God into the lies of Satan.

But, Barry, YOU KNOW that you are being disingenuous - Why do you persist??

" IT " Speaks ? IT commands? Do you not see how silly that sounds when you put ' IT ' there . As an aside ' It ' is not a problem .The context is what matters . But it says ' He ' in many places .

 

[Soapy]

" IT " Speaks ? IT commands? Do you not see how silly that sounds when you put ' IT ' there . As an aside ' It ' is not a problem .The context is what matters . But it says ' He ' in many places .

No, Barry, what do you say then when someone speaks of being taught by a book?

Do you then say that the book must be a person?

And what about being guided by a map, a pathfinder, a SatNav?

Do you say these must be a person?

And what do you say about the book in which you write notes to REMIND you of events?

Do you say the notebook is a person?

And speaks? Ha! Call up the time clock (uk?) and it will speak the time to you. Is that a person?

Barry, howbeit that the trinity Holy Spirit is Almighty God BUT it “Takes of what is Jesus’”?

Barry, this says that the Holy Spirit DID NOT HAVE all that Jesus had?

How can your trinity god, who you say has equality across all things be DEFICIENT in anything such that if is Given from another trinity-god member ...

How comes Jesus is GRANTED all things (of creation) FROM THE FATHER (wherein ‘Father’ means ‘CREATOR’... Jesus is GRANTED to have what the FATHER CREATED!

You still not getting the fact that Jesus is a unique MAN whom God CREATED (and Creator is ‘Father’), a SINLESS MAN to replace the first sinless MAN who brought sin into the world and condemned it.

It is pointless that GOD should come into his own creation to DIE in his own creation and paradoxically to be RAISED UP AGAIN BY GOD ...who just died three days earlier? This using your paganistic three-person visionary idol god.

God warned us not to worship idols - but to worship ‘HIM ALONE’ because, as Jesus says:

• “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” (John 4:23)

Worship the Father - For he, and he alone, is GOD?:

• “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;” (1 Cor 8:6)

Barry, No scriptures says to worship Jesus... no scriptures says we are to worship the Holy Spirit.

All scriptures says to worship the CREATOR, who is almighty God; the Father.

Please don’t post verses saying Jesus was worshipped... the trinity translator knew this was false... all will BOW the knee to Jesus, YES! But Bowing the knee itself is NOT WORSHIP else there are a lot of famous patriarch male and females that would be accused of false worship... Bowing the knee is perfectly acceptable in HONOUR, PRAISE, and GLORIFICATION... but Honor, praise, and glory, in themselves are not Worship...:

• Do we not honour our heads of state
• Do we not glorify our athletes in their triumph in some sport
• Do we praise our children for a good deed

Are we WORSHIPPING any of these - of course not?

Barry, THINK before you post another disingenuous claim ... even so, I am happy to respond in order to dispel your fallacies if you post such!

 

[John1.12]

No, Barry, what do you say then when someone speaks of being taught by a book?

Do you then say that the book must be a person?

And what about being guided by a map, a pathfinder, a SatNav?

Do you say these must be a person?

And what do you say about the book in which you write notes to REMIND you of events?

Do you say the notebook is a person?

And speaks? Ha! Call up the time clock (uk?) and it will speak the time to you. Is that a person?

Barry, howbeit that the trinity Holy Spirit is Almighty God BUT it “Takes of what is Jesus’”?

Barry, this says that the Holy Spirit DID NOT HAVE all that Jesus had?

How can your trinity god, who you say has equality across all things be DEFICIENT in anything such that if is Given from another trinity-god member ...

How comes Jesus is GRANTED all things (of creation) FROM THE FATHER (wherein ‘Father’ means ‘CREATOR’... Jesus is GRANTED to have what the FATHER CREATED!

You still not getting the fact that Jesus is a unique MAN whom God CREATED (and Creator is ‘Father’), a SINLESS MAN to replace the first sinless MAN who brought sin into the world and condemned it.

It is pointless that GOD should come into his own creation to DIE in his own creation and paradoxically to be RAISED UP AGAIN BY GOD ...who just died three days earlier? This using your paganistic three-person visionary idol god.

God warned us not to worship idols - but to worship ‘HIM ALONE’ because, as Jesus says:

• “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” (John 4:23)

Worship the Father - For he, and he alone, is GOD?:

• “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;” (1 Cor 8:6)

Barry, No scriptures says to worship Jesus... no scriptures says we are to worship the Holy Spirit.

All scriptures says to worship the CREATOR, who is almighty God; the Father.

Please don’t post verses saying Jesus was worshipped... the trinity translator knew this was false... all will BOW the knee to Jesus, YES! But Bowing the knee itself is NOT WORSHIP else there are a lot of famous patriarch male and females that would be accused of false worship... Bowing the knee is perfectly acceptable in HONOUR, PRAISE, and GLORIFICATION... but Honor, praise, and glory, in themselves are not Worship...:

• Do we not honour our heads of state
• Do we not glorify our athletes in their triumph in some sport
• Do we praise our children for a good deed

Are we WORSHIPPING any of these - of course not?

Barry, THINK before you post another disingenuous claim ... even so, I am happy to respond in order to dispel your fallacies if you post such!

Acts 8
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. ( a speaking force ? )
Acts 11

12And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Acts 13
2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost SAID , Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Someone's lying to you my friend. Essentially what's happened is you've been sucked into " Weve Got the secret truth that no one else knows , come Join we offer what those who crave certainty, all you desire " I say this tongue in cheek , but your analogies are quite worrying ?

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hey @Barry Johnson, why do we STILL ahve posts like the below (written today, taken from another thread) being posted by you?

Do you get that from Mathew 7 ? .
I'd say that if you asked an unbeliever ( even some Christians) To observe a Christian, a Mormon and a Jehovah's_Witness for one week . They would probably say the Mormon is the geniune Christian . But rather if we Judged what they taught and belived we may see that they are not Christian after all .
Matthew 7 is about this . They DID things that looked like they were from God and for God . But we know what Jesus says about them in Matt 7 .

Why do you STILL bear false witness and spread false stuff like this? You aren't even following your own advice: you don't judge on what's genuinely believed & taught, but instead false rumors you refuse to look past?

And through this all, you want me to believe that you're the REAL Christian and I'm the fake.... I mean you obviously can do whatever you want. But I'm not remotely buying your arguments, and I daresay I'm not alone in that camp.

 

[Soapy]

Acts 8
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. ( a speaking force ? )
Acts 11

12And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Acts 13
2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost SAID , Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Someone's lying to you my friend. Essentially what's happened is you've been sucked into " Weve Got the secret truth that no one else knows , come Join we offer what those who crave certainty, all you desire " I say this tongue in cheek , but your analogies are quite worrying ?

Barry, the Holy Spirit IS:

• THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH
• The Spirit of Righteousness
• The Spirit of ALMIGHTY GOD

• IT has the ability to PERFORM in those who truly believe...
• IT has the ability to PERSUADE those whom are uncertain of righteousness
• IT has the ability to GUIDE in truth and righteousness

Can you not read always that it is the Spirit of God put into the hearts of those who TRULY SEEK THE FATHER?

The FATHER SENDS HIS SPIRIT into our hearts to:

• Remind us
• Teach us
• Guide us
• Empower us
• Embrace us in righteous brotherhood
• Gift us (AS our abilities allow)

This latter GIFT of the Spirit SEARCHES the spirit of a man and attaches abilities as it sees the spirit can accommodate.

You going to post back saying ‘the Spirit of your god cannot search the spirit of a man!’? Barry, you are truly not a God-Fearing individual. Remember that LIFE is given through the SPIRIT OF GOD... that GOD CREATED US.
Barry, if you create a entity AND YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO SEARCH ITS INNER WORKINGS.... wow - you are in DEAD TROUBLE!

The Spirit of the Creator searches the mind and heart of the creator... AND searches the hearts and minds of that which it creates. The verse you look at says that one man’s spirit cannot search the hearts and mind of ANOTHER MAN. And that is perfectly correct that it should be so else we would be in DEAD TROUBLE!!
But the SPIRIT OF TRUTH can relay the heart and mind of one man into another man AS SEEN by episode of Jesus, ‘Knowing their minds’... because ‘GOD WAS IN HIM’ (The Spirit of God was in him).

And howbeit be said, “GOD was in him” when you define “GOD” as ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’...
But yet we read (you don’t) that:

• “....GOD ANOINTED JESUS with the HOLY SPIRIT and with POWER...”

You refuse to acknowledge that it is the anointing with the Holy Spirit OF GOD that EMPOWERS Jesus to do what he did and does.

You refuse to believe that it is this same ANOINTING that empowered the Apostles to do what they did. Yet the scriptures tells you plain and simple what occurred at Pentecost - how the apostles each received AN AMOUNT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT as the Holy Spirit deemed for each person.

Barry, how do you amount a PERSON with a PERSON?

Barry, Line up twelve glasses of differing sizes and run those glasses under a flowing tap until each is filled with tap water. Barry, is the amount of water to fill each glass dependent on a person? No, no matter how much water is poured into each glass, the filling of the glass is only the CAPACITY of that glass... So also the Spirit of God fills each man at Pentecost with the amount and abilities of that man to accommodate the Holy Spirit of God.

Jesus Christ was able to accommodate the FULLNESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT - and the Father was pleased that it should be so because Jesus was SINLESS. The apostles were not sinless and so lacked the ability to accommodate the fullness of the Holy Spirit and therefore received LIMITED AMOUNTS as fitted their ability: some to teach, some to understand and speak other languages, some as doctors, etc.

Barry, I’ve noticed that you have split up your God into three completely different entities... in fact so that:

• The Father does NOTHING
• The Son becomes MORTAL in FLESH
• The Holy Spirit is SENT BY THE FATHER as an enabler INTO both The Son and true believers of the Father (The only true God) and Christ Jesus (who is also SENT BY THE FATHER)

Barry, in the interest of the Co-equality, co-almighty, co-knowledgeable of your pagan tri-person god:

• What does the Father do?
• If Jesus is God but is sinful man... how does that work?
• How can one ‘god’ SEND another ‘god’ if they are ‘THE SAME ONE GOD’?
• WHY isn’t your Father-god SENT?
• Why is your Holy Spirit-god deficient in equality with Jesus such that it ‘takes of what is [Jesus’] to give to believers?
• What is EQUAL[ITY] in trinitarian belief?

And you still do not respond to what you claim as ‘Fullness’ and ‘GODHEAD’ ...any reason why you haven’t?

When you answer this then I will put it in sentences according to scriptures to test your definition - ok?

 

[John1.12]

Barry, the Holy Spirit IS:

• THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH
• The Spirit of Righteousness
• The Spirit of ALMIGHTY GOD

• IT has the ability to PERFORM in those who truly believe...
• IT has the ability to PERSUADE those whom are uncertain of righteousness
• IT has the ability to GUIDE in truth and righteousness

Can you not read always that it is the Spirit of God put into the hearts of those who TRULY SEEK THE FATHER?

The FATHER SENDS HIS SPIRIT into our hearts to:

• Remind us
• Teach us
• Guide us
• Empower us
• Embrace us in righteous brotherhood
• Gift us (AS our abilities allow)

This latter GIFT of the Spirit SEARCHES the spirit of a man and attaches abilities as it sees the spirit can accommodate.

You going to post back saying ‘the Spirit of your god cannot search the spirit of a man!’? Barry, you are truly not a God-Fearing individual. Remember that LIFE is given through the SPIRIT OF GOD... that GOD CREATED US.
Barry, if you create a entity AND YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO SEARCH ITS INNER WORKINGS.... wow - you are in DEAD TROUBLE!

The Spirit of the Creator searches the mind and heart of the creator... AND searches the hearts and minds of that which it creates. The verse you look at says that one man’s spirit cannot search the hearts and mind of ANOTHER MAN. And that is perfectly correct that it should be so else we would be in DEAD TROUBLE!!
But the SPIRIT OF TRUTH can relay the heart and mind of one man into another man AS SEEN by episode of Jesus, ‘Knowing their minds’... because ‘GOD WAS IN HIM’ (The Spirit of God was in him).

And howbeit be said, “GOD was in him” when you define “GOD” as ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’...
But yet we read (you don’t) that:

• “....GOD ANOINTED JESUS with the HOLY SPIRIT and with POWER...”

You refuse to acknowledge that it is the anointing with the Holy Spirit OF GOD that EMPOWERS Jesus to do what he did and does.

You refuse to believe that it is this same ANOINTING that empowered the Apostles to do what they did. Yet the scriptures tells you plain and simple what occurred at Pentecost - how the apostles each received AN AMOUNT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT as the Holy Spirit deemed for each person.

Barry, how do you amount a PERSON with a PERSON?

Barry, Line up twelve glasses of differing sizes and run those glasses under a flowing tap until each is filled with tap water. Barry, is the amount of water to fill each glass dependent on a person? No, no matter how much water is poured into each glass, the filling of the glass is only the CAPACITY of that glass... So also the Spirit of God fills each man at Pentecost with the amount and abilities of that man to accommodate the Holy Spirit of God.

Jesus Christ was able to accommodate the FULLNESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT - and the Father was pleased that it should be so because Jesus was SINLESS. The apostles were not sinless and so lacked the ability to accommodate the fullness of the Holy Spirit and therefore received LIMITED AMOUNTS as fitted their ability: some to teach, some to understand and speak other languages, some as doctors, etc.

Barry, I’ve noticed that you have split up your God into three completely different entities... in fact so that:

• The Father does NOTHING
• The Son becomes MORTAL in FLESH
• The Holy Spirit is SENT BY THE FATHER as an enabler INTO both The Son and true believers of the Father (The only true God) and Christ Jesus (who is also SENT BY THE FATHER)

Barry, in the interest of the Co-equality, co-almighty, co-knowledgeable of your pagan tri-person god:

• What does the Father do?
• If Jesus is God but is sinful man... how does that work?
• How can one ‘god’ SEND another ‘god’ if they are ‘THE SAME ONE GOD’?
• WHY isn’t your Father-god SENT?
• Why is your Holy Spirit-god deficient in equality with Jesus such that it ‘takes of what is [Jesus’] to give to believers?
• What is EQUAL[ITY] in trinitarian belief?

And you still do not respond to what you claim as ‘Fullness’ and ‘GODHEAD’ ...any reason why you haven’t?

When you answer this then I will put it in sentences according to scriptures to test your definition - ok?

What we have is interchangeable terms and words being used . This isn't Star Wars . He speaks.

 

[Soapy]

What we have is interchangeable terms and words being used . This isn't Star Wars . He speaks.

Your false resources have run out....!

An empty shell of a deceptive belief system.

Jesus was FILLED with the Fullness of God the Father.

Jesus was filled completely with the Holy Spirit at his baptism - The Father was pleased that the son should be filled with the fullness of the Holy Spirit:

• ‘This is my Son in whom I am well pleased’
  
• ‘Behold my Servant in whom my spirit delights. My chosen one on whom I will put MY SPIRIT’
  • God prophesied the day of the messiah and delights in his chosen one and empowers the same.

• ‘[Hear ye all...] how GOD ANOINTED Jesus with the HOLY SPIRIT and with POWER...’
  • Jesus received the Spirit of truth, the spirit of righteousness, and the POWER to act in that righteousness.
• “What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
  • The Spirit CANNOT BE GOD if it SENT FROM GOD

So you still don’t know what ‘Godhead’ is?

Let me show you... It is a FALSIFICATION by trinitarian translators who saw that if they wrote the truth they trinity would be dispelled.

• “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,” (Col 1:19)

GOD was pleased to have all OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT dwell in Jesus.... Jesus’ BAPTISM with the fullness of the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[John1.12]

Your false resources have run out....!

An empty shell of a deceptive belief system.

Jesus was FILLED with the Fullness of God the Father.

Jesus was filled completely with the Holy Spirit at his baptism - The Father was pleased that the son should be filled with the fullness of the Holy Spirit:

• ‘This is my Son in whom I am well pleased’
  
• ‘Behold my Servant in whom my spirit delights. My chosen one on whom I will put MY SPIRIT’
  • God prophesied the day of the messiah and delights in his chosen one and empowers the same.

• ‘[Hear ye all...] how GOD ANOINTED Jesus with the HOLY SPIRIT and with POWER...’
  • Jesus received the Spirit of truth, the spirit of righteousness, and the POWER to act in that righteousness.
• “What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
  • The Spirit CANNOT BE GOD if it SENT FROM GOD

So you still don’t know what ‘Godhead’ is?

Let me show you... It is a FALSIFICATION by trinitarian translators who saw that if they wrote the truth they trinity would be dispelled.

• “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,” (Col 1:19)

GOD was pleased to have all OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT dwell in Jesus.... Jesus’ BAPTISM with the fullness of the Holy Spirit of God.

Col 1.19
19¶For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Same book
Colossians 2:9

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

I know why some ' prefer ' those ' modern translations.

 

[Soapy]

Col 1.19
19¶For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Same book
Colossians 2:9

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

I know why some ' prefer ' those ' modern translations.

BARRY.... If, in Col 1:19 the apostles wrote that God filled Jesus with his Holy Spirit as a near past event... and then LATER he wrote of it again as a far past event - what is different about ‘the event’. If is the SAME EVENT spoken of at different time intervals:

• GOD prophesied that he would put his Holy Spirit on the messiah
• God put his Holy Spirit on the messiah filling the messiah with the fullness of the Holy Spirit
• God was pleased that Jesus should be so filled with his Holy Spirit
• ‘In Jesus the fullness of the Holy Spirit dwelt’

The Holy Spirit dwelt in Jesus after the Holy Spirit filled Jesus...

• The man got into the car
• The man was in the car
• The man was in the car after he got into the car

But your denial of all the scriptures stating that God put his Holy Spirit on Jesus shows you are not an honest believer. Barry, I can only warn you of the devilish work that you are doing and remind you of the consequences of ‘Lying to the Spirit of righteousness’.

• Ha! You lie to me THEREFORE you lie to the Holy Spirit - the SPIRIT OF TRUTH... therefore you lie to GOD ALMIGHTY!

• ‘Christ, seated at the right hand of God’ (Col 3:1)
  • How is Christ ‘God’ if he is seated at the right hand of ‘GOD’?
  • And if Jesus IS ‘God’ then Jesus is seated next to ‘Father, Himself, and the holy spirit’!!

 

[John1.12]

BARRY.... If, in Col 1:19 the apostles wrote that God filled Jesus with his Holy Spirit as a near past event... and then LATER he wrote of it again as a far past event - what is different about ‘the event’. If is the SAME EVENT spoken of at different time intervals:

• GOD prophesied that he would put his Holy Spirit on the messiah
• God put his Holy Spirit on the messiah filling the messiah with the fullness of the Holy Spirit
• God was pleased that Jesus should be so filled with his Holy Spirit
• ‘In Jesus the fullness of the Holy Spirit dwelt’

The Holy Spirit dwelt in Jesus after the Holy Spirit filled Jesus...

• The man got into the car
• The man was in the car
• The man was in the car after he got into the car

But your denial of all the scriptures stating that God put his Holy Spirit on Jesus shows you are not an honest believer. Barry, I can only warn you of the devilish work that you are doing and remind you of the consequences of ‘Lying to the Spirit of righteousness’.

• Ha! You lie to me THEREFORE you lie to the Holy Spirit - the SPIRIT OF TRUTH... therefore you lie to GOD ALMIGHTY!

• ‘Christ, seated at the right hand of God’ (Col 3:1)
  • How is Christ ‘God’ if he is seated at the right hand of ‘GOD’?
  • And if Jesus IS ‘God’ then Jesus is seated next to ‘Father, Himself, and the holy spirit’!!

This isn't how I approach the scriptures.I try deal with each verse in context. In discovery mode .

 

[Soapy]

This isn't how I approach the scriptures.I try deal with each verse in context. In discovery mode .

Ok Barry Johnson, I see that you realise your trinity belief is at odds with the truth... I can see that you are struggling with trying to find a way out ... I can see you searching the scriptures for a verse that you believe will qualify trinity....

BARRY, you won’t find one.

Barry, you will find DISINGENUOUS translations TRYING to make a claim BUT if you ‘fact check’ those claims then you will see that they are ‘FAKE’!

Barry, do you not believe what Jesus said that there would be serious consequences for anyone who alters the word of God as brought by the scriptures.

Barry, but hear this:

• ARE WE WISER THAN GOD?

Man, made in the image of God, created a system for himself, a storage system of knowledge - Data... Now, Barry, do you not think that in a corrupt world that at some time or other there would come forces, malicious agents who would try underhandedly to screw with that data???

So what does man do? He employs techniques to verify, validate, to provide integrity checks on that data, multiple copies (I don’t know what your computer knowledge is like but data is stored over many devices so if any get corrupted (integrity check -Fail) the corruption is eradicated by reconstruction from the other integrity checked -Pass) sources).

So, Barry, if man knows how to provide data checks on his information - WHAT OF THE ALL KNOWING ALMIGHTY GOD?

And so, Barry, THERE ARE CORRUPT translations in the scriptures. BUT GOD provides AT LEAST TWO MORE UNCORRUPTED versions for us to ‘Fact Check’ the true translation.

You brought this last verse in Colossians 2:9 as though it is meant to say that Jesus ALWAYS had the ‘fullness’ in him... but YOU LNOW THAT IS UNTRUE. You know that is false belief by trinity ideology because MANY INTEGRITY CHECKED - PASS verses say that:

• GOD / The Father - PUT HIS HOLY SPIRIT ON THE MAN JESUS at Jesus’ baptism at the river Jordan

And we read that this same Holy Spirit, GOD / The Father, PROMISED IT as a GIFT to the Apostles.
And that Jesus PASSED ON the Holy Spirit GIFT to the Apostles at the PENTECOST event.

Barry, trinity claims (others say) that the Holy Spirit BELONGED TO JESUS... NO! No scriptures says any such thing!

Remember the integrity check? God promised the Holy Spirit TO THE APOSTLES and, in fact, ALL BELIEVERS. Barry, if your Father promised you a gift and sent it via a courier (who also shares in the power of that gift), Barry, the courier IS NOT THE GIVER of the gift to you... but the DELIVERER. And so, the courier does not OWN the gift he delivers. Jesus did not OWN the Holy Spirit that he DELIVERED to the apostles... notice that Jesus says that:

• ‘Stay in Jerusalem until You RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE FATHER’
• “I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)
• “On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.” (Acts 1:4)

And what happened AFTER Jesus received the Holy Spirit?
Being filled with the Holy Spirit he STRAIGHTWAY was led by the spirit to be TESTED of the power he just received:

1. Would he use his holy power selfishly to save his own life
2. To show off ‘magical’ effects by jumping off the top of the temple
3. By ACQUIRING the throne of David WITHOUT the pain and agony, the humiliation - and DEATH ... by bowing down before Satan. Satan tempted Jesus, knowing that it would be a terrible time for Jesus. Jesus could avoid this if he renounced his powers to Satan - as with Esau renouncing his First Son privilege to Jacob to save his life with a bowl of soup. If you check it out you will find that God regarded that as a gross Sin!

Barry, even your trinity nonsense about Jesus creating everything FALLS APART BY TRINITY itself:

1. Jesus created everything
2. The Father created everything THROUGH the Son
3. The Father GRANTED everything TO Jesus

If Jesus is GOD then how can Jesus be RECEIVING EVERYTHING from the Father... Barry, doesn’t that say that BEFORE Jesus received ‘everything’ from the Father, he did not have ‘everything’.... and GOD ALWAYS HAS EVERYTHING (everything righteous, of course)

But Barry, what do we read next:

• “Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.” (Luke 16:15)

Barry, it says that Jesus, in receiving ‘everything’ from the Father, had something that THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT HAVE, such that the Holy Spirit borrows from Jesus to give to the apostles.!!

But, Barry, what do you see, what do you read...
THE FATHER is the ONLY ONE WHO NEITHER IS GIVEN NOR RECEIVES from anyone... because:

• “Father, .... eternal life depends on them believing IN YOU - THE ONLY TRUE GOD...”

God gives to those he loves - and those who love God give that love BACK through being dutiful... by being ‘SONS’ of God. God only RECEIVES what he first gives.

But Barry, how many times does Jesus RECEIVE:

1. He is given education FROM THE FATHER
2. He receives POWER by the Holy Spirit from the Father
3. He receives AUTHORITY from the Father to ACT in that power (‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray [to you]’)
   
4. He receives GLORY from the Father
5. He receives a resurrected body, A RENEWED IMMORTAL BODY from the Father
6. He is raised up to Heaven and Given the seat of glory (The right hand seat next to the king, by tradition: right hand man! Like David next to king Saul)
7. He is granted to RULE for a period of time with ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY just as Joseph in Egypt and Mordeciah in Persia... whereafter [they] HAND BACK THE POWER AND AUTHORITY to ‘HIM WHO GAVE IT TO HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE’ and:
   1. “For he [GOD / The Father] ‘has put everything under his [Jesus Christ’s] feet.’ Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.” (1 Cor 15:27)
8. Jesus RECEIVES a kingdom to rule - CREATION...

Again, Barry, Jesus says himself:

• “But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.” (Luke 22:69)
  • Are you going to say that the Son of man is the mighty God?
• “But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One? "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-2)

Couple that with the same incident reported in the gospel of Luke, the Jews ACCUSED Jesus of being ‘A FALSE MESSIAH’... they arrested him on a charge of subverting the laws and calling himself a King (even though Jesus assured them his kingdom was not of this corrupt world!) And both Herod and Pilate found him NOT GUILTY of the charges!!!

Nonetheless, Barry, at no time did Jesus call himself ‘God’ but rather, that he is the ‘Son of Man’ and that it is the ‘Son of Man’ who is seated NEXT TO GOD ALMIGHTY. And it will be the Son of Man coming with the clouds of Heaven (the mass of holy angels that the Father has GIVEN him)

Barry, your trinity belief has ‘GOD’ seated next to ‘GOD’... yet ‘GOD’ says:

• “I am the YAHWEH, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 45:5)

Si, Barry, how can your Jesus-GOD be seated next to YAHWEH GOD when Yahweh says there is no other next to him... And even with trinity-God, there are only TWO spoken of: God (The Always is Almighty) and Jesus (The was DEAD but now is alive eternally , glorified and Immortal) Son of man.

And Stephen, looking into Heaven in the Spirit saw ‘GOD seated on the throne, and Jesus STANDING next to him’

Barry, the seated one is the one in charge... the one STANDING next to him is in a subordinate, supportive, role. GOD ALMIGHTY.. the Father, is NEVER subordinate.
Barry, you claim you take each verse at its face value (or some such claim!!!) so what do you not see that ‘GOD’ and ‘Jesus Christ’ are two separate and completely different entities. One is ALMIGHTY and the GIVER of all thing righteous - and the other is A HOLY AND SINLESS VESSEL that is capable of RECEIVING that which the almighty gives IN FULL.

Barry, your comments please with fuller scripting and evidence - but NOT trinity creed, please! Scriptures ONLY! Thanks.

 

[John1.12]

Ok Barry Johnson, I see that you realise your trinity belief is at odds with the truth... I can see that you are struggling with trying to find a way out ... I can see you searching the scriptures for a verse that you believe will qualify trinity....

BARRY, you won’t find one.

Barry, you will find DISINGENUOUS translations TRYING to make a claim BUT if you ‘fact check’ those claims then you will see that they are ‘FAKE’!

Barry, do you not believe what Jesus said that there would be serious consequences for anyone who alters the word of God as brought by the scriptures.

Barry, but hear this:

• ARE WE WISER THAN GOD?

Man, made in the image of God, created a system for himself, a storage system of knowledge - Data... Now, Barry, do you not think that in a corrupt world that at some time or other there would come forces, malicious agents who would try underhandedly to screw with that data???

So what does man do? He employs techniques to verify, validate, to provide integrity checks on that data, multiple copies (I don’t know what your computer knowledge is like but data is stored over many devices so if any get corrupted (integrity check -Fail) the corruption is eradicated by reconstruction from the other integrity checked -Pass) sources).

So, Barry, if man knows how to provide data checks on his information - WHAT OF THE ALL KNOWING ALMIGHTY GOD?

And so, Barry, THERE ARE CORRUPT translations in the scriptures. BUT GOD provides AT LEAST TWO MORE UNCORRUPTED versions for us to ‘Fact Check’ the true translation.

You brought this last verse in Colossians 2:9 as though it is meant to say that Jesus ALWAYS had the ‘fullness’ in him... but YOU LNOW THAT IS UNTRUE. You know that is false belief by trinity ideology because MANY INTEGRITY CHECKED - PASS verses say that:

• GOD / The Father - PUT HIS HOLY SPIRIT ON THE MAN JESUS at Jesus’ baptism at the river Jordan

And we read that this same Holy Spirit, GOD / The Father, PROMISED IT as a GIFT to the Apostles.
And that Jesus PASSED ON the Holy Spirit GIFT to the Apostles at the PENTECOST event.

Barry, trinity claims (others say) that the Holy Spirit BELONGED TO JESUS... NO! No scriptures says any such thing!

Remember the integrity check? God promised the Holy Spirit TO THE APOSTLES and, in fact, ALL BELIEVERS. Barry, if your Father promised you a gift and sent it via a courier (who also shares in the power of that gift), Barry, the courier IS NOT THE GIVER of the gift to you... but the DELIVERER. And so, the courier does not OWN the gift he delivers. Jesus did not OWN the Holy Spirit that he DELIVERED to the apostles... notice that Jesus says that:

• ‘Stay in Jerusalem until You RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE FATHER’
• “I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)
• “On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.” (Acts 1:4)

And what happened AFTER Jesus received the Holy Spirit?
Being filled with the Holy Spirit he STRAIGHTWAY was led by the spirit to be TESTED of the power he just received:

1. Would he use his holy power selfishly to save his own life
2. To show off ‘magical’ effects by jumping off the top of the temple
3. By ACQUIRING the throne of David WITHOUT the pain and agony, the humiliation - and DEATH ... by bowing down before Satan. Satan tempted Jesus, knowing that it would be a terrible time for Jesus. Jesus could avoid this if he renounced his powers to Satan - as with Esau renouncing his First Son privilege to Jacob to save his life with a bowl of soup. If you check it out you will find that God regarded that as a gross Sin!

Barry, even your trinity nonsense about Jesus creating everything FALLS APART BY TRINITY itself:

1. Jesus created everything
2. The Father created everything THROUGH the Son
3. The Father GRANTED everything TO Jesus

If Jesus is GOD then how can Jesus be RECEIVING EVERYTHING from the Father... Barry, doesn’t that say that BEFORE Jesus received ‘everything’ from the Father, he did not have ‘everything’.... and GOD ALWAYS HAS EVERYTHING (everything righteous, of course)

But Barry, what do we read next:

• “Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.” (Luke 16:15)

Barry, it says that Jesus, in receiving ‘everything’ from the Father, had something that THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT HAVE, such that the Holy Spirit borrows from Jesus to give to the apostles.!!

But, Barry, what do you see, what do you read...
THE FATHER is the ONLY ONE WHO NEITHER IS GIVEN NOR RECEIVES from anyone... because:

• “Father, .... eternal life depends on them believing IN YOU - THE ONLY TRUE GOD...”

God gives to those he loves - and those who love God give that love BACK through being dutiful... by being ‘SONS’ of God. God only RECEIVES what he first gives.

But Barry, how many times does Jesus RECEIVE:

1. He is given education FROM THE FATHER
2. He receives POWER by the Holy Spirit from the Father
3. He receives AUTHORITY from the Father to ACT in that power (‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray [to you]’)
   
4. He receives GLORY from the Father
5. He receives a resurrected body, A RENEWED IMMORTAL BODY from the Father
6. He is raised up to Heaven and Given the seat of glory (The right hand seat next to the king, by tradition: right hand man! Like David next to king Saul)
7. He is granted to RULE for a period of time with ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY just as Joseph in Egypt and Mordeciah in Persia... whereafter [they] HAND BACK THE POWER AND AUTHORITY to ‘HIM WHO GAVE IT TO HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE’ and:
   1. “For he [GOD / The Father] ‘has put everything under his [Jesus Christ’s] feet.’ Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.” (1 Cor 15:27)
8. Jesus RECEIVES a kingdom to rule - CREATION...

Again, Barry, Jesus says himself:

• “But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.” (Luke 22:69)
  • Are you going to say that the Son of man is the mighty God?
• “But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One? "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-2)

Couple that with the same incident reported in the gospel of Luke, the Jews ACCUSED Jesus of being ‘A FALSE MESSIAH’... they arrested him on a charge of subverting the laws and calling himself a King (even though Jesus assured them his kingdom was not of this corrupt world!) And both Herod and Pilate found him NOT GUILTY of the charges!!!

Nonetheless, Barry, at no time did Jesus call himself ‘God’ but rather, that he is the ‘Son of Man’ and that it is the ‘Son of Man’ who is seated NEXT TO GOD ALMIGHTY. And it will be the Son of Man coming with the clouds of Heaven (the mass of holy angels that the Father has GIVEN him)

Barry, your trinity belief has ‘GOD’ seated next to ‘GOD’... yet ‘GOD’ says:

• “I am the YAHWEH, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 45:5)

Si, Barry, how can your Jesus-GOD be seated next to YAHWEH GOD when Yahweh says there is no other next to him... And even with trinity-God, there are only TWO spoken of: God (The Always is Almighty) and Jesus (The was DEAD but now is alive eternally , glorified and Immortal) Son of man.

And Stephen, looking into Heaven in the Spirit saw ‘GOD seated on the throne, and Jesus STANDING next to him’

Barry, the seated one is the one in charge... the one STANDING next to him is in a subordinate, supportive, role. GOD ALMIGHTY.. the Father, is NEVER subordinate.
Barry, you claim you take each verse at its face value (or some such claim!!!) so what do you not see that ‘GOD’ and ‘Jesus Christ’ are two separate and completely different entities. One is ALMIGHTY and the GIVER of all thing righteous - and the other is A HOLY AND SINLESS VESSEL that is capable of RECEIVING that which the almighty gives IN FULL.

Barry, your comments please with fuller scripting and evidence - but NOT trinity creed, please! Scriptures ONLY! Thanks.

The ' trinity ' ( God head ) is at odds with every non Christian denomination. Its at odds with people who are looking for a god like a man . A god that is not greater than, beyond full comprehension in this life . The Scriptures reveals things about God that man cannot fully grasp. We should expect this about God.

 

[Soapy]

The ' trinity ' ( God head ) is at odds with every non Christian denomination. Its at odds with people who are looking for a god like a man . A god that is not greater than, beyond full comprehension in this life . The Scriptures reveals things about God that man cannot fully grasp. We should expect this about God.

So let me get this straight ...

You are advocating that an impossible ‘Three person God’ that is One Person, that cannot be comprehended by its own creation, is the god that Jesus Christ revealed in his testimony from ONE OF THE TRINITY gods?

That ‘the Son of man’ IS the godhead of the three person deity that is nowhere spoken of in the Christian of Jewish scriptures that we both read and claim AS SCRIPTURES?

And you cannot define what ‘Godhead’ means but you know that Jesus is filled with it....!

And even though the scriptures that scream out at you saying that Jesus was filled entirely with the Holy Spirit BY YAHWEH, and attested by it by the Apostles who were likewise filled to (their limited) capacity WITH the said, Holy Spirit OF GOD... (hey shouldn’t that be, ‘The Holy Spirit of the Godhead’?) you still say it was not so....

And you cannot answer any questions I set to you yet you say you believe .... Barry, you are not being truthful and again I warn you of what it is to lie to the Holy Spirit... to lie ABOUT the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Father....:

• ‘Do not grieve the Holy Spirit’

Barry, you are no longer in ignorance... so be very careful about what you say in the future to anyone regarding your treacherous and tenuous belief in a false doctrine of a trinity God that is worse than the pagan gods of the heathen nations!!

You can lie about pagan gods because they are of inconsequence ... but to lie about the ONLY TRUE GOD - The Father.... now that is a sin that is virtually insurmountable - but not my judgement:

• May God, through the words of Jesus, and power of God’s almighty Spirit, come into you to show you the truth and bring you to a full understanding of the ONE GOD, the Father, and, Jesus Christ, the son of msn whom THE FATHER sent with his word.

 

[John1.12]

So let me get this straight ...

You are advocating that an impossible ‘Three person God’ that is One Person, that cannot be comprehended by its own creation, is the god that Jesus Christ revealed in his testimony from ONE OF THE TRINITY gods?

That ‘the Son of man’ IS the godhead of the three person deity that is nowhere spoken of in the Christian of Jewish scriptures that we both read and claim AS SCRIPTURES?

And you cannot define what ‘Godhead’ means but you know that Jesus is filled with it....!

And even though the scriptures that scream out at you saying that Jesus was filled entirely with the Holy Spirit BY YAHWEH, and attested by it by the Apostles who were likewise filled to (their limited) capacity WITH the said, Holy Spirit OF GOD... (hey shouldn’t that be, ‘The Holy Spirit of the Godhead’?) you still say it was not so....

And you cannot answer any questions I set to you yet you say you believe .... Barry, you are not being truthful and again I warn you of what it is to lie to the Holy Spirit... to lie ABOUT the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Father....:

• ‘Do not grieve the Holy Spirit’

Barry, you are no longer in ignorance... so be very careful about what you say in the future to anyone regarding your treacherous and tenuous belief in a false doctrine of a trinity God that is worse than the pagan gods of the heathen nations!!

You can lie about pagan gods because they are of inconsequence ... but to lie about the ONLY TRUE GOD - The Father.... now that is a sin that is virtually insurmountable - but not my judgement:

• May God, through the words of Jesus, and power of God’s almighty Spirit, come into you to show you the truth and bring you to a full understanding of the ONE GOD, the Father, and, Jesus Christ, the son of msn whom THE FATHER sent with his word.

If your going to argue and try to refute something you don't believe at least learn what it is . Your arguing against what the ' God head ' is not ?

 

[Soapy]

If your going to argue and try to refute something you don't believe at least learn what it is . Your arguing against what the ' God head ' is not ?

Barry, time and time again I asked you to define what you mean by ‘Godhead’ and up till now, even, you have not said what you mean by it.

If you DID know what it meant then you would have posted it... quick time...!

But, in fact, I showed you that the word, ‘Godhead’ is NOT a word of the scriptures. The trinitarian translators realised that if they were to translate the truth then trinity is debunked - so they INVENTED a word that is meaningless to cover their fallacy.

Barry, and that is why you cannot define it... it HAS no definition because it is a false word.

You can see that the verse wherein it is falsely written is claiming that Jesus was FILLED WITH IT... of course you choose to say that Jesus WAS FILLED with it.... ha! What is the difference?! Absolutely NONE!!

The scriptures says that The Father PUT HIS SPIRIT ON JESUS and he was FILLED WITH IT ...

• ‘and how God anointed this Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with power’

Also, that God (The Father) PROMISED to send the same into the apostles at Pentecost. And it was so.

What happened after each ‘filling’ with the Holy Spirit? Each received powers that were miraculous to onlookers. Such powers as had not been seen so plentiful in anyone before.

Of course, miracles had been performed before like Elijah and Elisha both carrying out resurrections of dead sons of widows. So Jesus and the apostles were Not the first to perform such miracles. But neither of these two performed so many.

And, Barry, how is it you claim GOD is three persons yet you say that Jesus is God....

You are saying that Jesus is three persons...

And that Jesus SAT NEXT TO GOD... yet God is three persons who say next to ‘him/Them’ there is no god!!!

And Stephen saw in vision GOD seated on his throne and Jesus STANDING next to him... also, Revelation depicts the same with The almighty seated on the throne (him that sat on the throne) and Jesus STANDING front and centre of the throne within a group of other HUMAN FIGURES ‘LOOKING LIKE’ a slaughtered Lamb!

And you say Jesus IS ‘he who sat on the throne’? So who is the ‘slaughtered lamb’?

And Jesus says that he WAS DEAD but is now alive forevermore...
Whereas God said he WAS, IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE (which is what “YAHWEH” means)

Do you see that Jesus DID NOT SAY, ‘I WAS and WAS DEAD, BUT NOW AM’, which might have been if Jesus had been pre-existing...

Barry, do you not yet know that no matter how much you try to mystify the truth, it always comes back to bite you... darkness cannot hide the true light.

And I showed you that Jesus calls himself the SON OF MAN...

Jesus NEVER ever said he was ‘The Son of God’. He did say he was ‘GOD’s Son’... that ‘God is my Father’. But see the incident in Luke where he says so to the Jews... THEY DID NOT ACCUSE HIM OF CALLING HIMSELF ‘GOD’. They accused him of CLAIMING TO BE THE MESSIAH that they were awaiting... this because they were expecting a WARRIOR MESSIAH to rid them of the Romans.

Barry, I notice you can’t string together a dialogue of your belief but rather just dump back some backchat with no value.

Can you justify your claims... NO!

Describe what you read here from the book of Luke Ch 22 -Ch 23

(Chp 22) 66At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and the teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67“If you are the Messiah,” they said, “tell us.”

Jesus answered, “If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”

70They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?”

He replied, “You say that I am.”

71Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.”

(Chp 23) 1Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. 2And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”

3So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

4Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, “I find no basis for a charge against this man.”

5But they insisted, “He stirs up the people all over Judea by his teaching. He started in Galilee and has come all the way here.”

6On hearing this, Pilate asked if the man was a Galilean. 7When he learned that Jesus was under Herod’s jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who was also in Jerusalem at that time.

8When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform a sign of some sort. 9He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him. 11Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate. 12That day Herod and Pilate became friends—before this they had been enemies.

13Pilate called together the chief priests, the rulers and the people, 14and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. 16Therefore, I will punish him and then release him.” [17] a

18But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” 19(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)

20Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”

22For the third time he spoke to them: “Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him.”

23But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24So Pilate decided to grant their demand. 25He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.

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Barry, Nowhere does anyone say Jesus said he was God...

 

[Soapy]

70They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?”

He replied, “You say that I am.”

71Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.”

(Chp 23) 1Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. 2And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”

3So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

4Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, “I find no basis for a charge against this man.”

This extract from my last post shows that at no time did any of the Jews in any way accuse Jesus of ‘Being God’.

The reality, they vehemently accuse Jesus of stirring up trouble and claiming to be ‘Messiah’.

So how did this clear evidence of ‘non-GOD’ accusation turn into an accusation of ‘being-God’?

Clearly, there is some problem with supposed reporting of events from Luke’s view to that of John’s view, where John claims the Jews accused Jesus of CALLING HIMSELF GOD... when, in fact, and from Jesus’ own mouth, he did not say that at all, but only that ‘God is my Father’.

I have yet to hear from any one how this supposed belief (that a Son is equal to his Father) came about let alone his it could ever be possible!!!

 

[Muffled]

I can not claim to have a hotline to Allah, but i have in my own words a netter understanding now, than before i become a sufi

I believe that happens sometimes but some Sufis have been known to get lost in the increased knowledge.