What kind of a god would make a place like Hell/Hellfire?

[gnostic]

Please tell us where in Scripture the Christian God (the God of the Bible) makes a place like hell.

Hell and hellfire is describe in 4 verses in 3 different chapters in Revelation (19:20; 20:10, 14-15; 21:8), as the "Lake of Fire".

KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hellfire. Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed Not burning forever.

Revelation is not describing Gehenna at all.

And the verses you have cited in the OT...

Sleep in death is also what the old Hebrew Scriptures teach about the condition of the dead:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

...NEVER, NEVER EVER mentioned Gehenna at all.

And I find it strange that you would cite this and that in the OT and NT, but omit anything in Revelation. This is where most of imageries of hell come from, URAVIP2ME.

So why the omissions of everything relating to Revelation?

Yes, the church have resorted to scare tactics, but the motif and symbols of hell is not only in non-biblical, but also in the biblical...unless you think Revelation is no longer "biblical"????

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hell and hellfire is describe in 4 verses in 3 different chapters in Revelation (19:20; 20:10, 14-15; 21:8), as the "Lake of Fire".
Revelation is not describing Gehenna at all.
And the verses you have cited in the OT...
...NEVER, NEVER EVER mentioned Gehenna at all.
And I find it strange that you would cite this and that in the OT and NT, but omit anything in Revelation. This is where most of imageries of hell come from, URAVIP2ME.
So why the omissions of everything relating to Revelation?

Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, but is the lake of fire an imagery of biblical hell ?
Why reference the lake of fire as biblical hell ?
Where does Scripture say the dead Jesus was in the lake of fire ___________- Acts of the Apostles 2:27
What is the definition of the lake of fire according to Revelation 20:13-14 ?
Isn't the definition of the lake of fire defined as ' second death ' ?________

Isn't everyone in biblical hell ' delivered up ' (KJV ) out of hell meaning resurrected out of hell ?
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.- Revelation 20:13-14

Satan ends up, Not in hell, but in 'second death' - Revelation 21:8 B
Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
So, it is ' second death ' that is a term ( Not for forever burning ) but for: destruction
All the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 2 Thessalonians 1:9

 

[gnostic]

Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, but is the lake of fire an imagery of biblical hell ?
Why reference the lake of fire as biblical hell ?
Where does Scripture say the dead Jesus was in the lake of fire ___________- Acts of the Apostles 2:27
What is the definition of the lake of fire according to Revelation 20:13-14 ?
Isn't the definition of the lake of fire defined as ' second death ' ?________

Isn't everyone in biblical hell ' delivered up ' (KJV ) out of hell meaning resurrected out of hell ?
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.- Revelation 20:13-14

Satan ends up, Not in hell, but in 'second death' - Revelation 21:8 B
Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
So, it is ' second death ' that is a term ( Not for forever burning ) but for: destruction
All the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 2 Thessalonians 1:9

Gee, how I hate KJV. I don't know why people continue to rely on the archaic KJV.

Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

So, Jesus destroyed death?

14 Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

If you back and bother to reread Genesis 2 & 3, it is God who brought death into the world (or so Genesis say), not the devil, because Genesis 3 make no mention of this devil aka Satan.

Second, not only did God curse them with death, it is God who curse Adam and Eve, all future descendants that they are marked with suffering and toils, before death comes to them all.

So really, who had the power of death? God? Or the devil?

It is God, not the devil.

Paul, or whoever wrote the Hebrews, is clearly the one who twisted why death come to all, and who was the one responsible for death. Hebrews 2:14 clearly ignored the event in Genesis 2 & 3, and this cited verse clearly contradicted the Old Testament who is responsible.

Tell me, URAVIP2ME.

Who was the one who destroyed mankind with the mythological Flood? (God, not the devil)

Who sent the Angel of Death to kill every first-born Egyptian males? (Again, God, not the devil)​

By those 3 examples alone, your claim about Jesus destroying death and your quote with the devil being responsible for death, got it wrong. God is responsible for death...that if God even exist, that is.

You talk of people taking the bible out of context. Well guess what, URAVIP2ME, Paul or whoever wrote Hebrews did exactly that, contradicting what happened in Genesis, and resorted to a little dishonesty, by placing the devil into the picture.

 

[Thief]

People grow and evolve; they don't remain the same
forever.

If everyone's in tune with God, they will automatically be
in tune with each other.

I can only imagine that physical death alone would
transform a person, given that whatever likes, dislikes,
personality traits, and behaviors they had were largely
influenced by the biochemical and hormonal cocktails their
physical body was constantly generating over their
physical life-span.

The "me" that's under those influences isn't going to be the
same "me" outside of them. Someone behaving cruelly
due to whatever disorder they had, whether diagnosed or
undiagnosed, will no longer be under the influence of that
disorder once they're outside of their physical body. I
don't even think we have our egos at that point, and those
things really influence our behavior as well.

All we know about the entity we call Hitler is what that
entity did when he had his body on. We don't know what
that entity is like now—most likley, the entity is far
different (and better) than what it was when being Hitler.

Things change. People change.

We never stop being His creation; He transforms and heals
people wherever it's needed.



-

and it was God's Favored that instigated the down side of existence....
even as he held position at God's right hand

therefore...no position in heaven is secured.

anyone can be tossed out

 

[Astravalon]

and it was God's Favored that instigated the down side of existence....
even as he held position at God's right hand

therefore...no position in heaven is secured.

anyone can be tossed out

Yes, that is one of what I'm sure are many narratives that
include some kind of 'hell' as part of the landscape. I held
to a hell-concept myself, back in the day, until I realized
that it could be tossed out.




-

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Gee, how I hate KJV. I don't know why people continue to rely on the archaic KJV.
So, Jesus destroyed death?
If you back and bother to reread Genesis 2 & 3, it is God who brought death into the world (or so Genesis say), not the devil, because Genesis 3 make no mention of this devil aka Satan.
Second, not only did God curse them with death, it is God who curse Adam and Eve, all future descendants that they are marked with suffering and toils, before death comes to them all.
So really, who had the power of death? God? Or the devil?
It is God, not the devil.
Paul, or whoever wrote the Hebrews, is clearly the one who twisted why death come to all, and who was the one responsible for death. Hebrews 2:14 clearly ignored the event in Genesis 2 & 3, and this cited verse clearly contradicted the Old Testament who is responsible.
Tell me, URAVIP2ME.

Who was the one who destroyed mankind with the mythological Flood? (God, not the devil)

Who sent the Angel of Death to kill every first-born Egyptian males? (Again, God, not the devil)​

By those 3 examples alone, your claim about Jesus destroying death and your quote with the devil being responsible for death, got it wrong. God is responsible for death...that if God even exist, that is.
You talk of people taking the bible out of context. Well guess what, URAVIP2ME, Paul or whoever wrote Hebrews did exactly that, contradicting what happened in Genesis, and resorted to a little dishonesty, by placing the devil into the picture.

I never said the devil was responsible for the existence of death, but that he has the power of death - Hebrews 2:14 B
In Genesis didn't God give the choice of life or death ? ________ - Genesis 2:17
If Adam and Eve wanted to live forever they would Not eat the forbidden fruit. The penalty for breaking that Law was: death ( capital punishment )

1) Jesus will destroy death according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26. Death will be No more - Revelation 21:4-5 - Death will be swallowed up forever - Isaiah 25:8
2) God warned that breaking the Law and eating from the forbidden tree would result in: death. Satan using the serpent tells the first lie at Genesis 3:4. - Ezekiel 28:13-15; John 8:44
3) Yes, Genesis chapter 3 does Not name Satan as the serpent but Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12 does.
4) God forewarned and Not cursed anyone to death ( the word Father means Life Giver Not life taker ) Adam brought upon us ' death ' - Romans 5:12
5) God brought about the execution because of the violence in Noah's day - Genesis 6:11
6) God brought about the execution of the first born in Egypt because they would Not let His people go - Exodus 8:15; Exodus 8:32; 1 Samuel 6:6
( each of the plagues humiliated one of the false Egyptian gods )
Through Christ, God will once again bring a final execution of the wicked on Earth - Psalms 92:7
The words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

 

[URAVIP2ME]

and it was God's Favored that instigated the down side of existence....
even as he held position at God's right hand
therefore...no position in heaven is secured.
anyone can be tossed out

According to Scripture, Satan and his demonic angels are ' tossed out ' of heaven - Revelation 12:7-9 - and they are subject to ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Now please notice those who are resurrected to heaven from earth can Not be ' tossed out ' because their positions are secure - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10

 

[gnostic]

According to Scripture, Satan and his demonic angels are ' tossed out ' of heaven - Revelation 12:7-9 - and they are subject to ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Now please notice those who are resurrected to heaven from earth can Not be ' tossed out ' because their positions are secure - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10

Only according to Revelation.

But can you possibly take anything like Revelation literally...or seriously?

To me, it is read like that of man...author, whoever he may be...was having hallucinating episode, suffering from religious delusions, or he is seriously tripping on LSD...or all of the above.

While Revelation is fascinating to read, there are too many allegorical symbols that you could interpret each one a hundred different ways.

People have used Revelation for centuries as prophecy of dooms or end of day, but each time they have made utter fools of themselves. It just how gullible some Christians are, and the church took advantage of their naivety, using apocalypse as a scare tactics to put the fear of God or the fear of hell in them.

But getting back to Satan in revelation, there was no such war in or exile from heavens in the Old Testament.

The only parts Satan played in the OT is that of servant or agent of God, testing man's faith, and not as god's opposition as he is seen in the NT. Satan is a totally different character in the OT, and never appeared in Genesis 3.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can't think of any good reasons why something worthy of being called a god would be so trivial and petty as to make any sort of eternal damnation. But I think of many reasons why a group of men seeking to control the masses would.

 

[Thief]

According to Scripture, Satan and his demonic angels are ' tossed out ' of heaven - Revelation 12:7-9 - and they are subject to ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Now please notice those who are resurrected to heaven from earth can Not be ' tossed out ' because their positions are secure - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10

and the point really is....
if God's Favored held no secured position....
then no such thing can exist.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People have used Revelation for centuries as prophecy of dooms or end of day, but each time they have made utter fools of themselves. It just how gullible some Christians are, and the church took advantage of their naivety, using apocalypse as a scare tactics to put the fear of God or the fear of hell in them.

But getting back to Satan in revelation, there was no such war in or exile from heavens in the Old Testament.
The only parts Satan played in the OT is that of servant or agent of God, testing man's faith, and not as god's opposition as he is seen in the NT. Satan is a totally different character in the OT, and never appeared in Genesis 3.

Agree, people have used Revelation as ' end of day doom ' and have made fools of themselves.
Making a fool out of one's self does Not make the Bible as wrong, it just makes them wrong.
Mankind itself sets the hands of the Doom's Day Clock with its hands set close to striking the dark midnight hour.
Biblical light grows lighter and brighter with the passing of time - Daniel 12:9; Daniel 12:4; Proverbs 4:18 - until Jesus' perfect millennium-long day of governing over earth.

Yes, false clergy have fleeced the flock of God using false scare tactics of a permanent burning hell on the flock - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
Whereas ' biblical hell ' is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead -> John 11:12-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Ecclesiastes 9:5

Right, No such heavenly war was in the old Hebrew Scriptures - Job 1:6-8
Job 2:4-5 is where Satan challenges all of us that ' touch our flesh '( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we make a reply to Satan's challenge - Proverbs 27:11

The Revelation is the grand-happy conclusion that earth's nations will be healed according to Revelation 22:2
Even enemy death will be No more - Isaiah 25:8 - No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24
Earth will also be healed according to Isaiah 35; Isaiah 11:6-8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I can't think of any good reasons why something worthy of being called a god would be so trivial and petty as to make any sort of eternal damnation.

Please notice the reason given at Genesis 6:11 ( and Psalms 11:5 )
Violent ones would destroy all the righteous ones, thus only violent people would be left on earth to destroy one another.
The so-called eternal damnation is: eternal destruction for the wicked - Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Proverbs 2:21-22
Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam, there is No post-mortem penalty for anyone else.
We all have two free-will choices to make: Repent or perish ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Please notice the reason given at Genesis 6:11 ( and Psalms 11:5 )
Violent ones would destroy all the righteous ones, thus only violent people would be left on earth to destroy one another.
The so-called eternal damnation is: eternal destruction for the wicked - Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Proverbs 2:21-22
Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam, there is No post-mortem penalty for anyone else.
We all have two free-will choices to make: Repent or perish ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9

Again, I don't see why anything worthy of being called a god would so trivial and petty. Such things are lesser/lower human emotions. Why would a "god" not be above them?
And, though understandable, I find it odd that Christians can't even come to a consensus over what happens to those without faith. Many say they burn, many say they weep, many say they just die. Why couldn't and didn't a "god" make things more clear?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, I don't see why anything worthy of being called a god would so trivial and petty. Such things are lesser/lower human emotions. Why would a "god" not be above them?
And, though understandable, I find it odd that Christians can't even come to a consensus over what happens to those without faith. Many say they burn, many say they weep, many say they just die. Why couldn't and didn't a "god" make things more clear?

Since the Bible is Not written ABC as a dictionary is, then we need to study or research Scripture by subject or topic arrangement - Acts of the Apostles 17:11
Even Daniel did Not understand all that he wrote because the time was Not yet ready to be revealed to right-hearted ones - Daniel 12:9; Daniel 12:4
Biblical light (understanding) grows lighter and brighter with time - Proverbs 4:18 - until Jesus' perfect millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
The Ethiopian official knew to ask for help in understanding Scripture - Acts of the Apostles 8:28-30; Acts of the Apostles 8:34-35 - and understanding was granted to him.

Unless one has committed the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, they will have a resurrection. Most back to healthy-and-happy physical life on Earth.
Only the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7
We all have two (2) choices before us: ' repent ' or ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9 . No post-mortem penalty.
God is clear, its the false religious teachers who are Not clear - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - when the humble 'sheep' (people) can remain alive on earth, and continue to live on earth, right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We all have two (2) choices before us: ' repent ' or ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9 . No post-mortem penalty.
God is clear, its the false religious teachers who are Not clear - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.

But yet many Christians would disagree. We even have an active thread about how it is possible that in some denominations, Christianity instills such a deep psychological fear of Hell that people experience psychological trauma over it.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - when the humble 'sheep' (people) can remain alive on earth, and continue to live on earth, right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.

People are always saying we are near the "end times," and they have always gotten it wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But yet many Christians would disagree. We even have an active thread about how it is possible that in some denominations, Christianity instills such a deep psychological fear of Hell that people experience psychological trauma over it.
People are always saying we are near the "end times," and they have always gotten it wrong.

People being wrong does Not make the Bible as being wrong. It just makes the people as wrong.

Especially after the year 70 when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks, they adopted religious-myth teachings such as a permanent forever burning hell.
That wrong teaching does Not make the ' Bible's hell ' (temporary grave) as wrong, but makes those false religious teachers as wrong - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

 

[YmirGF]

People being wrong does Not make the Bible as being wrong. It just makes the people as wrong.

Especially after the year 70 when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks, they adopted religious-myth teachings such as a permanent forever burning hell.
That wrong teaching does Not make the ' Bible's hell ' (temporary grave) as wrong, but makes those false religious teachers as wrong - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

After reading your thoughts I'm looking a bit more kindly on the prospect of a Hell world for some folks...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

After reading your thoughts I'm looking a bit more kindly on the prospect of a Hell world for some folks...

Actually, according to Scripture, there is No ' hell world ' for the wicked because the wicked do Not end up in any hell but the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7. So, in other words, the wicked will be annihilated.

The day righteous Jesus died, Jesus went to biblical hell / the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in the Bible's hell.
I find that Jesus will resurrect all in biblical hell - Revelation 1:18.
KJV mentions being ' delivered up ' out of hell according to Revelation 20:13-14 meaning resurrected out of hell.
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
I find hell and death come to a final end at Isaiah 25:8; 1 Corinthians 15:26.
So, that ' hell world ' (or grave) comes to a finish when No one is left in hell, whereas the wicked are simply destroyed instead of ever being considered as being in a hell world or in the grave.

 

[Nakosis]

He whom only make the rules , so if you don't respect him, you don't have the right to looking for his awards

I just imagine that you produce a robot , than that robot be a rebellion against your rules , and plus it's deny that it's structured/built by you !!!
it's you,ONLY you who had right to do it, whatever you want to it .

Robots don't have feelings.

 

[FearGod]

The other day I burned my finger (only slightly, nothing serious) and I was spiraled down the rabbit hole of "what if" propelled by the idea that fire and burning is probably one of the few things that elicits an instantaneous reaction from our bodies. On contact, our bodies instantly recoil due to the instantaneous and lingering pain of a burn. That got me thinking, most human animals could not inflict that kind of lingering pain on others, aside from horrid things like Napalm used during conflicts, of course. Beyond that though, what kind of a being could stand by and watch some of its supposed creations writhing in pain for more than a few short moments - let alone, eternity?

Any thoughts justifying this would be appreciated.

The same pain as seeing some roaches are burning, but yes we're special animals
compared to other species, still animals